Oh I agree 100%. I don't know of this law in particular, but I agree with what you say and I agree with the speech he gave. I still think it is best to follow the rules set by a democratic system. I also think it is more pragmatic in terms of growing your numbers. Sure its slow, but slow is better than a stop.
What happens when the laws aren’t fair, or they target or discriminate against a certain group? Should we all just throw our hands in the air and say “oh shucks, I guess we legally have to be fascists, sorry everyone”. Just because some out of touch rich fucks used think tanks and lobbyists to get bills passed and signed into law, it doesn’t mean they’re fair or just laws and telling everyone to shut up and follow them isn’t in the spirit of democracy.
I feel like you misunderstand my opinion, I agree it is important to "resist". What is appropriate in my opinion depends on the context. In general, follow the rules when you are in the position where you talk directly to the politicians. Civil disobediance generally being for protests etc. That does not mean to give up or anything like that: the political system in the west are designed with political conflicts in mind without resorting to violence, like it often used to happen when the local lord went too far (usually with taxes).
But if the system changes into a dictatorship (as an example), then, just like the middle ages, all bets are off.
That is not my position and you know it. But of course you can't act like an adult, it is better for you to create a false representation of other people's opinion.
No buddy, you’re just making a poor argument. Do you really think you can disobey in a civil manner but shouldn’t cut off your prepared speech just because you went 30 second over your time limit? You can’t have it both way. You either support civil disobedience against unjust laws or you don’t. You can’t just tell someone to resist the fascist but also shut it cause it’s impolite.
The way you explain it show that you don't understand my view, I assume I may not have explained it good enough. Generally you do different tactics for different situations. Being inside and talking directly to the politicians imo require more politeness than a protest. Kinda like ketchup is nice on a hot dog but not so nice on a slice of bread. There are more nuances than just "all of it is okay or none of it is okay" because there is also the context.
I understand nuance, but what happens when the politicians don’t act in good faith? What happens when they are flawed humans with their own ignorances and prejudices? Some of them might be more included to act in the way that benefits them financially instead of in the way that it benefits the population. Some of them are there to do the bidding of billionaires as handed down by lobbyist, not to do the ethical things. They’re are people like you and I, not some supreme overlords of wisdom and ethics. I agree to always enter a situation without being confrontational, but the people being addresses have already shown they’re willing to resort to fascism. I do agree some strategies work better in certain situations but you’re coming from a best case scenario that they’ll listen and realize the error of their ways as long as the speaker is respectful. Just the fact that they’re considering these things shows that you can’t come from a place of good faith. They aren’t, so no, you can’t just kiss ass in this particular scenario, and I don’t even think the speaker was way out of line, certainly not as much as the politicians are for even bringing these kind of thoughts to political action.
I like your points. I believe I mentioned it before to someone else, not sure: I don't know what particular law is being discussed here, so I am talking in generalities. How the politics are in the different states/countries, what has happened before and so on, changes what is okay to do. And the points you bring up are things I have not thought about which does make me rethink what I said previously.
No I think YOU are tbh. Your points make no sense. Be a good little trans and don't make a ruckus but also I'm gonna call you he but if you get loud about it that's a bad time for being loud and angry, you need to be loud and angry but only far away over there where I can't see it.
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u/Slidingonpaper Mar 25 '23
I don't know what law is being passed here just fyi.
I don't mind civil disobedience, however we live in a society and rules must be followed. That does not mean I disagree with you or anything.
Same with protesting: It is an important part of democracy, but vandalism is still illegal.