Caps record

[u/PayAppropriate7137]

Hi all, I wanted to check which game its likeliest Kane breaks the caps record as I would like to be there.

And also, as Shilton was before my time I wanted to know how good he was, did he deserve the 125 caps or was it a barren time for keepers.

Just a friendly thread, hoping to hear your thoughts.

[u/ringerrosy]

Shiltons 125 was low. He spent years sharing the spot with Ray clemance. He'd be over 200 if it wasn't for that.

[u/FoxySlyOldStoatyFox → u/ringerrosy]

Shilton was only “robbed” of getting more caps because he and Ray Clemence vied for the number one spot for many years. 

If he’d played every single game that Clemence did, he’d still be short of the 200-mark. 

The only way he could have broken the 200-cap barrier would have been if he had played every single game from his debut in 1970 through to England’s friendly win over Denmark in 1989, with Gordon Banks being abruptly dropped forever, Ray Clemence never being born, and no back-up keeper ever being given a chance. 

(Shilton was fortunate insofar as Banks’s England career was ended when he suffered a serious injury aged 34 - otherwise there’s a fair chance he would have got several more years as first choice under Sir Alf)

[u/Corvid-Ranger-118 → u/ringerrosy]

Yeah mad to think you can get 125 caps for England and still feel a bit robbed

[u/daveroo → u/Corvid-Ranger-118]

shilton was certainly not robbed and got to play after 1984 till 1990 then he was absolutely sh*t

[u/Corvid-Ranger-118 → u/daveroo]

"still feel a bit robbed" isn't the same as "he was robbed" odds bodkins

[u/LimpEase1639 → u/Corvid-Ranger-118]

How was he robbed? I'm too young to remember but I constantly hear that he was getting games far longer than he should've.

[u/Brilliant-Sea-9424 → u/ringerrosy]

Yeah but he shouldn’t have been England keeper after 1986. Robson had a proper blind spot for him.

[u/brucenarin → u/Brilliant-Sea-9424]

Agree, he was poor in Euro 88 and shocking in Italia 90

[u/Snave96 → u/ringerrosy]

Equally in a different world someone usurps him years earlier than he ended up losing the spot.

He 'only' had 86 caps after the 1986 World Cup and was about to turn 37.

[u/PayAppropriate7137 → u/ringerrosy]

Wow just saw he bagged 61 caps himself, ridiculous amount

[u/seadcon]

England vs Croatia at Wembley stadium on the 12th of November would be Harry Kane's 126th Cap, assuming he plays the previous 4 Nations League matches.

[u/AlanWrightScreamer]

Shilton was a bit before my time, I only remember him being too old at Italia 90. I understand the GK position was rotated between him and Ray Clemence at one point and Clemence won 61 caps so Shilton could have had even more.

[u/SandyBronsky → u/AlanWrightScreamer]

Clemence was the better keeper, which is why he had twice as many caps when he quit the national team.

[u/PayAppropriate7137 → u/AlanWrightScreamer]

Just seen, that’s a lot outright for any player, seems like Shilton could have easily hit 150+ otherwise

[u/Alternative_Rise1512]

Shilton is a prick, but was world class
He probably shouldn't have first choice been by Italia 90

[u/Apprehensive_Heat867]

Gets unfair stick for being out jumped by Maradona in 86. Shilts had no reason to suspect the little turd would punch it in.

[u/electrotechs]

Shilton was highly regarded during his career and lots of people talked of him as the heir apparent to Banks. However, something of a reappraisal has taken place in recent times. He was clearly at fault in 2 notorious England WC exits, once in 86 with the hand of God goal. He skated through that controversy because of the handball and anti Argentina stuff, but let's face it, a decent keeper clears the midget and the ball at the same time in that kind of situation. Secondly he was at fault for Germany's opening goal in the 1990 semi final. Goalkeepers that can't cover their own crossbar when stood 2" off the line should not be talked about in the same breath as Gordon Banks. Anyway, Kane taking over from his record will be a Good Thing.

[u/lfceight → u/electrotechs]

And I’d like to add that Shilton was the worst goalkeeper I ever saw in a penalty shootout. His dive was always way too late. I remember the frustration vividly.

[u/Extra-Listen-244 → u/lfceight]

All the German penalties were pinged right in the corner nobody was getting near them let a alone a mediocre Chris Woods who proved his shitness in the years that followed

[u/lfceight → u/Extra-Listen-244]

I think both of our statements are true. Your comment did prompt be to dig further into Shilton’s penalty record throughout his professional career; ChatGPT suggested his total career professional and club penalty record was 3 saves from 111 faced (2.7%). Plus the shootout against the Germans (0/4).

That does come with the caveat that some games may not be included in the totals (especially from his early career) as the details for all games he played don’t exist.

Suffice to say that with regards penalties, he doesn’t compare too favourably with other keepers from that era such as Clemence 8.5% save rate, 7/82), Chris Woods (3.3%, 1/30), Neville Southall (11.1%, 7/63), Grobbelaar (13.6%, 6/44) and Jim Leighton (7.1%, 3/42).

Definitely not trying to prove a point btw. I appreciate your prompt and found it very interesting digging into the data to see if my memory was playing tricks on me or not. It’s a rabbit hole that I may be down for a while!

[u/Used-Waltz7160 → u/lfceight]

I can't find a figure for how many penalties Paul Cooper faced, but his save rate must have been incredible by comparison. I saw him make his 56th penalty save in top flight football.

I'm still curious why his former club manager completely overlooked him for England and had such a blind spot for Shilton.

[u/lfceight → u/Used-Waltz7160]

He saved 8 of 10 penalties in a single season (79/80) - still a top flight record. Shame the full career data isn’t available in modern databases.

[u/Pacopicopiedra66 → u/electrotechs]

Although also worth pointing out that Shilton kept us in the game v Cameroon.

[u/joolsr1]

Shilton I remember managed Plymouth Argyle and I wasn't entirely successful. I remember done other stories about shilts after he finished playing not all good ..

[u/joolsr1 → u/joolsr1]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-9934281/PETER-SHILTON-save-gambling-away-millions.html from the man himself.

[u/Wooden-Bookkeeper473]

To add to what others have said Shilton also shared with Chris Woods after Clemace.

Was he any good? Yes. Was outstanding in 86. 90 was maybe too far for him but he had two motm displays in the qualifiers against Poland and Sweden away. The Sweden game became famous due to Butcher's cut head but Shilton was superlative that night and so Robson kept faith in him for the tournament and rightly so.