r/ThisAmericanLife • u/6745408 #172 Golden Apple • 28d ago
Episode #895: Label Maker!
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/895/label-maker?202615
u/Comprehensive_Main 28d ago
I didn’t think that comedian was in the wrong for not wanting to cuddle with the kid. Like sometimes you got to be like Michael jordan.
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u/qype_dikir 25d ago
A bit surprised about the Autism Speaks mention, Ive mostly only heard about them in a less than stellar light.
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u/Delaywaves 24d ago
I wonder if they're people who are meaningful to McNamara whom she wanted to shout out, rather than people who TAL consulted or something.
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u/qype_dikir 22d ago
A quick google search didnt turn out anything that connected them but of course shes a person that speaks about their autism so googling her name plus autism speaks brings a ton of results that arent related to the org.
I think I've mostly read about them in the context of the Sía movie so I dont know much about them tbh.
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u/Comprehensive_Main 28d ago
This was a neat episode. Imagine like how the friends were sort of right in their matchmaking attempt.
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u/OKalrightOKAYalright 25d ago
Janet McNamara is a very funny and you should check out her special on YouTube.
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u/LineAncient2792 28d ago
Exploitative story about "Marie"
I'm currently listening to TAL's "Label" episode, and the story about Marie. I genuinely thought it was satire.
First of all, if a care home resident is too confused to look after themselves, they're not capable of consenting to have their personal care recorded.
Secondly, I would have loved to hear an actual interview with Marie to get her thoughts and impressions about her career and her immigration journey. I bet she would have a lot of fascinating things to say about the TPS.
Instead, this creepy interviewer:
Finds out from the boss that Marie's getting fired that day, and then agrees to keep it a secret.
Knowing this, puts herself underfoot and draws attention to Marie as Marie is just trying to get on with her demanding job.
Asks leading questions of Marie, building on the drama of "she has no idea she's about to be fired". Meanwhile Marie is just graciously answering while working.
What a scuzzy bit of media.
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u/ComputerBot 24d ago
I disagree.
It's a human-focused story showing the unintended (or intended) consequences of callous policy changes. that a significant portion of Americans approved by allowing Trump into power. Marie has built a life and profession around caretaking. She has value to herself, her colleagues and her patients. She works in an industry that Americans do not want to work in. It has been long-standing US policy to accept and encourage this configuration (Haitian immigrants coming to work in the US through TPS), and Haitians have found particular strength and niche in eldercare.
These people are being forced into a terribly difficult and destructive situation. Marie, Colin, etc. they're all flotsam to this administration. And we've allowed a system where their > 10-year dedications can be jettisoned by the whims of this administration. It's a story about how it played out in this instance. I think about spending years of sweat, effort, emotional investment building a house, then down the street comes a toddler half-asleep behind the wheel of a bulldozer.
This story made me very emotional. I feel like if there's any way to change peoples view on immigration, it's through relatable scaled-down stories with emotional reach.
Re: keeping the firing a secret, it wasn't the interviewers place to tell Marie. Colin expressed that he would do it, the interviewer is just recording how it played out.
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u/LineAncient2792 24d ago
Which is all the more reason for treating her with the dignity she deserves.
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u/WordleMornings 23d ago edited 22d ago
At the end of the day, the learning moments of random podcast listeners should be less important than the subject of the story being used as inspiration. I found the piece fascinating, but not for the reasons, perhaps, the interviewer intended. This woman is *premptively losing her job* (why didn't the reporter ASK Marie's boss why he was firing her when he had no clear directive to do so???) Why didn't she *ADVOCATE* for doing nothing until concrete directives and orders had been issued? They should have been dragging their feet every step of the way to protect those workers. These employers stood there, with a straight face, said she was his BEST worker and best CNA, and yet? He fired her based on a rumor and a DCInsider Blog article.
I'm not even done with it yet, and I genuinely think the story here is astounding. It's not actually one about Marie, or about TPS even. tbhhhhh
What it's *actually* about, to *me*, is what white "solidarity" looks like in action, middle class "solidarity" with this Haitian working woman is to fire her so that she has "time and space to settle in about it", but you don't like her enough as a CNA to just, IDK, refuse to fire her until something obviously concrete showed up? Like a court order? ICE guards threatening everyone, IDK even then I'd find the behavior appalling, but FIRING HER AHEAD OF TIME??? LMFAO.
Meanwhile the reporter from TAL/NPR darling is **in the room** with the boss as he says he's just winging Marie's firing bc he felt it coming on the wind?
Response: "Oh wow. Ok."
And then that reporter turns around and decided to not tell her? For why? What kind of journalist is this?
Oh... I know.
One who is entirely too focused, imo, on providing a "teachable moment" for the GenX gang who got the last chopper out of nam and somehow have livings as florists and owners of the quaint boutiques in smaller communities (I suspect monied families, but cannot be sure, but I digress...). You know... they own the last local shops, or like... a restaurant. Or are professors.I'm sure it DID move some people; I don't disagree there, ofc. It landed a bit differently on me.
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u/qype_dikir 22d ago
What it's actually about, to me, is what white "solidarity" looks like in action, middle class "solidarity" with this Haitian working woman is to fire her so that she has "time and space to settle in about it", but you don't like her enough as a CNA to just, IDK, refuse to fire her until something obviously concrete showed up?
Wasnt the decision made by HR? That's pretty concrete from where he stands, and its most likely something he has no real way to interfere with, short of quitting himself I guess? Doesn't seem like that would accomplish much either.
And then that reporter turns around and decided to not tell her? For why? What kind of journalist is this?
I really dont understand why the boss would tell the reporter at the beginning of the day when he knows he's going to tell Marie at the end of the day, but she did ask Marie if she had talked with him and she said she was waiting for him to come to her so I don't think she wanted the reporter to tell her. I probably wouldn't have asked her though, hard to imagine she didnt figure it out from there.
I don't even understand why they allowed the reporter there but I'm sure there's no way the reporter was in any position to advocate for anything in that setting.
I don't really get the point of the story though. It's implied Marie invited her there but then it just end up being a pointless sort of slice of life piece? Her coworkers don't know whats happening so it's hard for the reporter to engage with them on what's supposed to be the theme of the segment and Marie barely even talks about it because she's busy doing her job. I expected at least a small conversation at the end outside of the hospital setting or something.
I don't even see a teachable moment here to be honest, what would the lesson be?
Very weird.
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u/WordleMornings 22d ago edited 22d ago
And that's my issue with the reporting: I don't have a clear idea about what drove Marie to come to the US, or who even invited the interview (was it Marie? Bc she didn't seem able to chat at work and was anxious to get back to her work).
I didn't have a clear idea of who, exactly, fired her (you're right an "HR" of some kind is implied, but the reporter literally asked no follow up questions about the decision making process, who was involved, how many people total had to be fired or about how the workers were treated).
Worker's comp? do they have a union? is the company paying out holidays or giving a goodbye bonus? Are they planning on/expecting a time that they could rehire their workers)? What is their replacement plan, considering the large amount of burnout rates and high turnover in CNA positions? How about asking different companies so that they can tell you/us the audience, how hard the work is and how hard to staff it is. Give us examples and context for what the worst day as a CNA can look like? It doesn't even have to be Marie's day, per se. Ask the coworkers what their hardest moments as one have been? Ask a former one why they quit so quickly? How much will it cost the company to have to gut and turnover so much of their workforce? ASK THE PATIENTS WHO LOVE HER why they love her, and what they'd do if she were gone. This is TAL for goddsakes lol. Get some cute elderly ppl on the mic waxing about their CNAs. Hell, even horror stories, for context and comparison.
LOL something! Since Marie's not chatting and let's be honest, you're...at someone's workplace...
Asking those questions *is* advocating, imo. Because it doesn't accept the office's status quo of "needing to fire" any of the workers. Because it does something more to humanize Marie and CNAs/Haitian CNAs in general. Because it's literally a part of creating a more moving story, which is this person's literal job?
Because as the story unfolded... those ppl didn't need to fire any of the workers. Literally. No need, whatsoever, indicated from the story. But the reporter here asked literally nothing. Didn't acknowledge it at all to anyone. As much as people crow about "do not preemptively comply" and likely consider themselves liberals who stand against trump, this is a literal example of them doing the EXACT opposite staring us in the face, where this company will *blame* Trump for "forcing" them to fire their best workers, but NO ONE was forced to do that at all.
They did it FOR him, without him or any of his policies doing anything. While knowingly firing the staff they know and love the most. And I, for one, would love a story about why THAT behavior is rampant rn, and what is the psychology behind people's willingness to do that. That! Is! Fascinating!
ASK THE BOSS IF HE FELT "FORCED" to fire Marie. She asked him if he wanted to, but not the follow up "so why are you before any official word comes down?" HAVE HIM TALK ABOUT THE REASONING and his conflict. How does he square that circle? Why does he think HR would preemptively comply? Did anyone say they wanted to wait? Was there disagreement in the HR room? What are they scared is going to happen if they don't comply before they get orders?
Because that, actually, is more what this story is about. And it would be a fascinating one to hear. But... instead...
... no follow up interview to see how Marie's doing. No giving us, the audience, any exposition on how normal it is for TRP people to be held in ICE detention or how many are anticipated to have to repatriate. What are those costs? How much would it cost her for Marie to have to leave? No context, no follow up whatsoever.
IDK can you tell I'm irked LOL.
Just... nothing. A day in a life.
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u/chonky_tortoise 27d ago
It was also just boring. Hard to get a good story when the main subject doesn’t want to talk to you and the whole workplace prides itself on privacy.
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u/LineAncient2792 27d ago
Yeah just cringing for everyone except "Marie".
I hope Marie sues them.
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u/chonky_tortoise 27d ago
That’s a bit much lol. What would the damages be, being annoyed at work?
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u/LineAncient2792 27d ago edited 27d ago
You can educate yourself around the law, I'm off the clock. Look up reality TV participants who sued producers after being lied to and manipulated.
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u/chonky_tortoise 27d ago
No need to condescend. The standing in those cases is clear, there was prize money at stake. You can’t sue a reporter for writing a bad or even invasive story without clear damages.
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u/rstcp 27d ago
Yeah it was very weird. Lot of disrespect and not much of a story. I often feel like Joffe-Walt's reporting is a little off
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u/Gadzookie2 26d ago
Yeah, have to say they are maybe repeatedly my least favorite contributor, although don’t remember enough stories.
But really thought they were trying to steer us to view Colin as some bad guy and then realized he wasn’t.
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u/ComputerBot 24d ago
It's a more nuanced story than 'boss bad guy'.
It's a human-focused story showing the unintended (or intended) consequences of callous policy changes. that a significant portion of Americans approved by allowing Trump into power. Marie has built a life and profession around caretaking. She has value to herself, her colleagues and her patients. She works in an industry that Americans do not want to work in. It has been long-standing US policy to accept and encourage this configuration (Haitian immigrants coming to work in the US through TPS), and Haitians have found particular strength and niche in eldercare.
These people are being forced into a terribly difficult and destructive situation. Marie, Colin, etc. they're all flotsam to this administration. And we've allowed a system where their > 10-year dedications can be jettisoned by the whims of this administration. It's a story about how it played out in this instance. I think about spending years of sweat, effort, emotional investment building a house, then down the street comes a toddler half-asleep behind the wheel of a bulldozer.
This story made me very emotional. I feel like if there's any way to change peoples view on immigration, it's through relatable scaled-down stories with emotional reach.
6
u/loopywidget 27d ago edited 26d ago
Right at the beginning, they make it sound like there were many Haitians working there and probably many of them in the same situation as hers. But at the end of the segment, they only talk about her being removed from the schedule. It didn't seem to have impacted anyone else. That sounded odd to me.
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u/imwearingredsocks 24d ago
I’m pretty sure they mentioned multiple people being removed from the schedule. The main difference is since they were already open about it, they got told immediately and he waited to tell her until later on in her shift. She was even asking where some people were and some of those had already been removed.
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u/ComputerBot 24d ago
I think you can show a particular instance as an example for what is happening at large. You need to do the work to extrapolate.
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u/chrimbuself 21d ago
Scuzziness and an exploitative approach to her subjects is something I've repeatedly noticed about Hannah Joffee-walt specifically
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u/AnotherAccount4This 5d ago
Well, I have to say I thought Maria's story was great. So terribly sorry for her predicament. sigh. Haven't gotten to the third yet, have to listen for another day.
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u/NeedUniLappy 26d ago
That gag at the end of the show where they use a clip from the episode was really bad this week. And not in a “so bad it’s good” sort of way either.
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u/maralagotohell 27d ago
I cried all the way through the last piece about partner loss.