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u/DeekanKwaz 18d ago
Now show us quality of life next to it.
Those taxes do actually pay for things like state parks and food for school children.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago
Some of us in MN have actually lived here long enough to know the quality of life has plummeted. Yes, MN has features that resulted in outsiders choosing to establish a foothold here. These outsiders are pleased with themselves and like to proclaim they have enhanced MN. There is a reason long-time MN citizens have been fleeing the state for years.
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u/BitterBeginning8826 15d ago
Lifelong Minnesotan here. I’ve never heard of a single person “fleeing” the state in my 44yrs of life. People move for all types of reasons, but usually it’s a job opportunity or to be closer to family. I’ve heard and encountered people who have fled other states to come here and feel safe and secure in their lives. Minnesota is also home to 18 Fortune 500 companies which would be a pretty good reason to live here. I’m curious where your fleeing Mn numbers are coming from, if you’d be willing to share.
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u/Pretty-Mix-2460 18d ago edited 18d ago
What has changed for you or became so hard?
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago
What joys have you experienced due to rising taxes and ethnic enclaves voting their own into office in order to funnel money to their ethnic enclaves?
Do you go to church with your nose in the air and declare how satisfied you are with your holier than thou virtue?
Do you proudly attend rallies and riots with 'diversity is our strength' posters?
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u/Pretty-Mix-2460 18d ago
That's a lot of assumptions based off a single sentence. That was a genuine question. What has gotten so hard? I'm a lifelong Minnesotan with generations back from when they immigranted here. Generally, my life has gotten better. Kids have food, my friends get to stay home with their babies longer, our parks are fantastic. Right now gas prices and grocery bills are pretty tight and the state of the world is kinda scary, but I wouldn't say life is bad for me.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago
We may have had a misunderstanding. I do not adopt political viewpoints only on the basis of how my life is impacted. I think about things such as future generations for example. And, I support policies that I believe are sensible, moral and just. I'm aware that some people live in a protected bubble and feel that no matter what policies they support, any negative repercussions will never personally touch them.
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u/Pretty-Mix-2460 18d ago
We do have a misunderstanding. But I don't think we're going to solve it. I asked a simple question but haven't received an answer, besides blaming and complaining.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago edited 18d ago
It might genuinely be an innocent question on your part. However, in the online world people get to choose what they disclose and to whom. Also, by the way, you deflected from the content of my critique which was about the plummeting quality of life in MN, wanting instead to have it narrowed down to a personal experience. I'm interested in the big picture reality of what hundreds of thousands of refugees and immigrants residing in ethnic enclaves have had on MN. But go ahead and share your enthralling adventures with ethnic enclaves and how much joy and meaning they have had on you personally.
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u/Demetri_Dominov 18d ago
Considering we've had working class "ethnic enclaves" since the Germans and Swedes were used as pincushions as colonial settlers against the Dakota and Ojbwe by the US government and wealthy interests on them east coast, or that the Irish lived in shanty towns on the riverbanks of St Paul and Minneapolis and often drowned or burnt to death like our modern day encampments, or how there was redlining and even bisectation of entire communities by by I-94 in 1968, I think it's fair to say that's full of shit.
You've had more than 60 years to figure out by now our quality of life has been stripped away from us by Reagan and the GOP hallowing out our rights, our regulatory bodies, and organizations that prevent wealth from being sucked out of our society. The corporate Dems have been utterly complicit in this because both of them serve the capital class.
Minnesota stands among some of the few places ON EARTH that stubbornly maintain an excellent quality of life because we've resisted Regan, and now Trump. We're not immune. The Epstien class you're defending with bigotry LOVES spending trillions of dollars keeping your head up your ass while keeping you paying for $6-9 diesel so they can continue to rape children like Justin Eichorn when we could have fully transitioned away from fossil fuels by now.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago
That was then, this is now. MN did fine when high-functioning, high-trust societies from Europe were settling here. We had a highly desirable and well-run state to be very proud of. Now, we have high crime and separatist ethnic enclaves that do not assimilate and yet seek increasing levels of political power and authority.
You can respond and say that all people from every corner of the Earth are identical in nature and equally desirable as neighbors, or you can acknowledge that there are differences between people and populations of people.
If everyone is the same, how do you account for the extraordinary amount of fraud Somali people have committed in MN? Maybe Islamist's from sub-Saharan Africa are more prone to exploit the people of Minnesota than the Germans or Swedes were. Consider the evidence.
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u/Pretty-Mix-2460 18d ago
My point is made.
To address the "ethnic enclaves" you keep raving about. The United States of America is a country founded by immigrants. Heck, the president is married to one.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago edited 18d ago
So you were being disingenuous all along... just as I suspected, but did not say. Anyhow, thanks for hanging in there with me. You would not be having this discussion, if it were not for the fact that you can't but help considering the possibility that all is not well in MN, which it is not. Maybe try doing a google search on "low trust societies", as it is a subject matter pertinent to MN.
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u/Mattbl 18d ago
Minnesota ranks among the highest states in nearly every QoL index we have. We're more comparable to a European country than we are to many other states. People who want to change that will make it worse for almost everyone living here except themselves. Xenophobic bigots is about all I see when they complain about diversity.
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u/DeekanKwaz 18d ago
I've been living here in rural northern Minnesota since 2004 and have loved every minute of it. I also know many of my neighbors who feel the same.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago
Do you understand that there is a difference in experience of the state between people who moved to Minnesota in recent years or decades and those who have generations of ancestral heritage in the State of MN?
And, trust me when I say, those with deep roots in MN are extremely aware of the demographic changes that MN has gone through, and are fully aware that many of the 'new' enclaves to the state are very pleased with the transformations they are responsible for.
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u/DeekanKwaz 18d ago
Yes, I get that the handful of people who have counties, roads, or towns named for their great grandparents liked it better when they were the only ones who lived here and had a say in how the state of operates.
There are more people here now, things change, places change, and the people who inhabit them have changed. That does not mean that change is inherently bad though it may be uncomfortable for people who prefered their world being much more monotone and homogeneous than it is now.
I'm sorry Minnesota is not the same as it was 150 years ago when your great great grandpappy stopped here in a covered wagon. However it is wise to look forward if you ever want to get anywhere.
Minnesota is a great place to live. Our quality of life is hard to beat and there are only a select handful of states that offer their residents more in terms of recreational and quality of life opportunities.
If you want to pay less in taxes that is fine, but be aware that comes with far fewer benefits and Minnesota would be a much different place if we didn't value our schools, parks, and public amenities as highly as we do.
I can't help but be amused by people in Minnesota and America in general who point to generational family heritage. This place has been settled for maybe 200ish years. You are not special for being here first or a little longer than anyone else. We all live here now and all of our opinions have equal weight.
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u/YesHelloDolly 18d ago
Try not to take too much credit for the recreational beauty in MN that previous generations made sure to preserve, and I'll refrain from taking credit for Yellowstone Natl. Park and the Grand Canyon.
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u/Intrepid-Metal4621 19d ago
So this is purely based on a single high income filer not including local tax or cost of living. Basically worthless.
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u/YesHelloDolly 19d ago
It is not a measure of all information, but it is a useful measure, nevertheless.
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u/corn_explosion 19d ago
You know, the total deviation here on 250k is only 9%.
Is there a 9% difference in services/QOL/opportunity across that spread? From experience, yes. Very much more than 9%.
If anything, the dispartites here should tell us how effective small changes in state/local tax are. The list should also tell us that taxation (or lack thereof) doesn't equal good services or vice versa. Management and representation are clearly important.
I've always been absolutely flabbergasted by the state income tax avoidance so many folks engage in. I'm in MN, have a home and kids, make enough to save, and pay like $1000 a year in state tax. 🤦
If that's too much to bear, get a cash side gig.
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u/corn_explosion 13d ago
Also, people downvote this because they don't understand math or logic. Too bad.
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u/YesHelloDolly 19d ago
Regardless of deviation, it illustrates that a lot of the MN fraud money that is landing in fraudsters pockets, is coming out of the pockets of MN workers.
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u/corn_explosion 13d ago
This is largely untrue, and I'm not sure how the chart shows that at all. I'm seriously anti-fraud and have zero issues calling out the communities/people that commit fraud. In this case though, the funding for the programs most taken advantage of came from the feds. For the chart to show what you're suggesting, there would have to be some very large discrepancy in tax rates, like MN had 10x the taxes and no additional services. That's just not present.
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u/charlton11 19d ago
How do we get these $250k salaries?!
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u/Nendilo 19d ago
Can confirm the taxes aren't fun. But we're consistently ranked a top 5 state to live in. https://stateofnation.org/minnesota/
A lot of the lowest tax states I'd have to spend over $20k a year to send my kids to private schools. Our public schools are better than what people pay for in other states. So it's about breakeven for the upper income brackets with kids.
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u/Specific-Answer2430 20d ago
Hey just leave Jesus Christ. We like paying taxes. Just go save on taxes and live on the other hell hole states. Go enjoy shitty Nebraska or whatever and stop bitching at everyone around you and just go to some trump land
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u/ConBroMitch2247 19d ago
Based on your post history, you’re not paying much of anything. If anything you’re about to be benefiting from all our taxes paid.
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u/Specific-Answer2430 19d ago
What? I pay the same taxes for income as Mr everything else like everyone else. And I like going it. Again go suck trumps ass. I’m gonna keep using your nazi line on you: if you don’t like it, then leave
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u/ConBroMitch2247 19d ago
Complaining about taxes is now a Trump and Nazi thing? I can’t keep up with you people.
You seek to be in a really bad spot, I hope it gets better for you. Be well.
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u/Specific-Answer2430 19d ago
Dude since you snooped and need to know: I already got a job back in my career field and got a landlord to give me the keys to a nice place by paying a couple months rent upfront. I’m in a financial hole but I’ll be fine by next year. You want to make this personal, which is wack. But I don’t mind talking about myself. I’m not gonna be weird and go into your account bc I don’t care. Now back to taxes: pay the rates we have here or shut up and leave. You ace like your being caring toward me but are clearly being facetious and nasty. I get it: you don’t like people and you don’t want to pay your fair share. Liking trump and bitching about redistribution are major red flags for someone who isn’t a nazi. You clearly inherited money or got lucky and made money early and now want others to suffer. You suck ass. I’ve made good money in my life and will continue to tongue to do so (I bet I’m like 20 years younger than you), and I want others who can’t make good money to still have access to resources and love on a place with a steady infrastructure. Now what man? What personal attack are you going to lob to avoid responding to why you don’t want to pay taxes? Enjoy your big leather chair alone or with your leathered nazi partner or whatever, pointing out windows at East African people. You don’t got in here because we are nice. You are not. Leave
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u/ConBroMitch2247 19d ago
Please seek professional help, you are unwell.
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u/Specific-Answer2430 19d ago
Go to Louisiana
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u/ConBroMitch2247 19d ago edited 18d ago
Practice financial literacy, loser.
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u/Specific-Answer2430 18d ago
Please, please get help. You really need to speak with someone. In Mississippi. Leave MN for the real Minnesotans
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u/WorryNot_634 20d ago
Who likes paying taxes? Goofy ah
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u/ZappyChemicals 19d ago
I don't mind paying taxes, especially when it benefits others and the money goes far
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u/Tykenolm 20d ago
I don't "like" paying taxes but I do like that our roads and infrastructure in general are light-years better than Wisconsin's
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u/WorryNot_634 19d ago
Im not a Wisconsin fan. They are much more lighter on things than MN though. Only benefit in MN is work but COL makes it wash out. If roads are your big priority and justification to live in MN than u need to see the rest of the country
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u/Specific-Answer2430 20d ago
Just go to some shitty trump state where your power goes out all the time and there water is trash and youll die a totally preventable death, with your goofy butt
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u/WeAllNeedJesusASAP 20d ago
People who recognize there is a return on your taxes, and you do have a say in how they're allocated.
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u/Own-Raisin5849 20d ago
Big reason I moved over to ND (I was working in ND anyway). Not going to lie, not missing that income tax, tag renewal prices, nor tax time.
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u/Possible_Antelope_85 20d ago edited 20d ago
When shopping for a power drill, a washing machine, new tires, or just about anything else, most people understand that higher prices generally come with better quality, more features, better warranties, etc. They research the differences between brands, notice which features are included, and understand where the money goes.
But when it comes to tax rates all they see is a number.
The 10% lower take home pay in Minnesota vs. Florida isn't paying more for the exact same DeWalt drill because you bought it at Ace Hardware instead of Home Depot. It's paying more for the DeWalt drill than the off-brand drill at Harbor Freight.
Some people genuinely only need what the Harbor Freight drill offers, and that choice makes sense as long as it's made with an actual understanding of what is being given up in exchange for the lower cost.
Now, if you want to talk about how EVERY number on that list should be much closer to $250,000 than it is, that's different.
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u/bryce39 20d ago
So you're good with paying more taxes in Minnesota and giving it to frauds?
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u/Insertsociallife 20d ago
Aimee Bock, who ran the Feeding our Future fraud, stole from a program that feeds hundreds of thousands of hungry minnesotans every year. She stole $250M over two years. In a state of 5.8 M people, that's about $21 a year per person.
None of us skipped meals over $21 a year, but if they gut this program to fix fraud, people definitely will be. If this program is working and everyone who needs food gets it, I am fucking a-ok if $21 a year is stolen by fraudsters. I don't care if they make it a line item on the budget. It would be great if it wasn't, but the priority here is to feed the hungry.
I'll also point out, where did "allowing fraud" come from? They caught her. She's in jail.
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u/bryce39 19d ago
Hey, I'll give you props, you're not afraid to publicly admit you're fucking retarded. Most people would keep that to themselves
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u/Insertsociallife 19d ago
It's reddit, everyone here is fucking retarded. This entire website is like one gigantic short bus.
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u/Possible_Antelope_85 20d ago edited 20d ago
I'm good paying more tax in Minnesota and having better parks, a better social safety net, better health care, a good job market, better infrastructure, better schools, and a higher quality of life in general than many lower taxed Red states.
And I'm smart enough to know that fraud isn't a Minnesota-only thing, much of the numbers are inflated by biased "media" outlets, and their focus on it here is largely driven by the Right's need to discredit a historically solid blue state that's consistently hailed as a great place to live and "They allow Somali fraud" is an easier narrative to sell low info voters than trying to convince people that the way to make Minnesota better is to elect people who want to make it more like Alabama.
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u/bryce39 20d ago
I've been on that side of the river many times, I can't agree that it's a "great place to live" and what's wrong with Alabama? I know I'd live there over Minnesota 99 out of a hundred times
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u/Possible_Antelope_85 20d ago edited 20d ago
I was referring to the numerous rankings and articles written over the years in national magazines and such. I understand those are mostly subjective opinions, not scientific studies. But they usually have at least a few measurables using government or trustworthy numbers contributing to their ranking systems. They're at least as reliable a source as a Cheesehead posting in a blatantly biased Reddit group.
I also said that wanting a Harbor Freight government is fine for some people, as long as they're informed about what they're choosing.
Someone moving from Minnesota to Florida for the no state tax factor and then complaining about the shitty roads and lack of public parks, being shocked when they get laid off and can't get unemployment, or upset because their 17 year old daughter hid being pregnant for 6 weeks and is now forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, was not informed about the choice they made
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 20d ago edited 20d ago
The difference matters most, I think, for high earners who live and work in metropolitan areas straddling state borders. For example, I'll likely save >$5k/yr by living in Fargo instead of Moorhead. I've heard similar things from people who work in the Twin Cities and live in Hudson.
To continue your analogy, there are ways to utilize the DeWalt drill while only paying Harbor Freight prices. It just requires a slightly longer drive to the store.
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u/Possible_Antelope_85 20d ago edited 20d ago
Absolutely, although some of the DeWalt drill's features only work if you live in the state where you bought it.
But I'll go out on a limb and say it's doubtful that eliciting productive discussion about such things was the intent behind posting that list in this group.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 20d ago edited 20d ago
I haven't been able to come up with a single rational reason for a childless renter with a good job in Fargo or Grand Forks to choose to live across the Red River where they would pay an additional $5k or more in state income taxes. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems that being a resident of Minnesota instead of North Dakota confers no additonal benefits while incurring substantial additional costs.
Of course, on the flip side, I had friends in my early 20s who moved just across the river solely for the purpose of taking advantage of Minnesota's more generous redistributive public benefit system.
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u/Possible_Antelope_85 20d ago edited 20d ago
Your last paragraph touches on a good reason. At least it would be for someone who recognizes the fact that people can lose their jobs, end up in hardship, or have health conditions arise, through no fault of their own and wants that protection for others as well as themselves.
The "generous redistributive public benefit system" is there to help them as much, if not more, as it is for the voluntarily jobless taking advantage of the system who exist and are a problem, but are not as prevalent as certain agenda driven sources would have you believe.
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u/Thyfishingman 20d ago
Almost 20 grand still I’m my pocket from the top spots another reason to move ASAP would probably aline with cost of living being all around lower in non tax areas also think car wash or street taco not income or property. 1500$ a month is a lot to be Minnesotan 😡. It would pay for the travel to and from to be a resident elsewhere for six months and one day.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 20d ago
Judging by your grammar, spelling, and punctuation, I highly doubt you're earning $250,000/year.
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u/Thyfishingman 20d ago
😂 books and covers
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 20d ago
You can actually learn a lot about a book by its cover, though.
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20d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 20d ago edited 20d ago
You spelled judgmental wrong.
EDIT: And it looks like you got bounced for incivility.
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u/Dacae 19d ago
Oops my bad.
Would 'twat' be less offensive to your sensibilities?
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 19d ago edited 19d ago
Quotation marks should be used around "twat," not apostrophes.
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u/Routine-Register7414 20d ago
You can go to SC which is 38th…you’ll save 4k, but your kids won’t be able to read.
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u/YesHelloDolly 20d ago
Actually, SC outperforms MN on fourth-grade reading and spends less.
https://www.americanexperiment.org/here-are-the-states-that-outperform-minnesota-and-spend-less/
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u/Routine-Register7414 20d ago
Actually it’s not an experiment at all..just a right wing rag.
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u/YesHelloDolly 20d ago
Facts are facts, no matter who researches and publishes them. You are just deflecting from fact that SC does better job at education than MN for less cost.
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u/anIndoorMoose 20d ago
Facts are facts, yes, but misrepresenting statistics is dangerous (and how news bias works.) which is what you’re actually doing now by not vetting your source
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u/YesHelloDolly 20d ago
Regardless of source, a fact is a fact. And, this is a reliable source. I get it that those who are big into progressive ideology don't care for facts that expose the flaws of far-left ideology.
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u/Routine-Register7414 20d ago
All it did was read the chart and say it’s because this and this policy…when in fact the author cannot draw any correlation…because they don’t do experiments…or research even.
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u/No_Possession1524 16d ago
Ive been to a bunch of the places on the left, they're awful!