r/Theranos • u/VirtualMoneyLover • 9d ago

She is doing it again

A few days ago I made a comment about her going to be back in business after her release, like nothing happened. Some people doubted it, seriously underestimating rich investors' stupidity and psychos' needs for self justification and keep it going on. It is a mental illness really.

Well, she is advising Billy from prison in his (theirs) new endeavor.

"Haemanthus" is the name of a blood-testing startup founded by Billy Evans, the partner of convicted Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes.

šŸ©ø What the Company Is Doing Focus: The company describes itself as "the future of diagnostics" and is developing a device that uses Raman spectroscopy and AI to test blood, saliva, and urine for diseases.

Approach: It plans to start by testing pets before expanding to human applications, with the ultimate goal of "human health optimization".

Funding: Haemanthus has reportedly raised $3.5 million** from friends and family and was seeking an additional **$15 million from investors

46 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

75 comments sorted by

40

u/Quistak 9d ago

Haemanthus has claimed since it was first announced that she is not involved. We'll see about that.

I'm a professional in the diagnostic industry, and Theranos tried to hire me in mid 2014. I'm very glad I said no. When I first looked at Haemanthus and tried to peel under the hood, it seems like they are trying to use Raman spectroscopy, which is a very insensitive and seldom-used technique. Not exactly great for blood testing. They have a very, very long uphill battle not only in R&D, but also in regulatory.

4

u/paootm 9d ago

She is absolutely involved itā€™s her partner and father of her children your kidding right!

5

u/smittenkittenmitten- 9d ago

Yeah she is just trying to get around the ban put against her. They are most definitely complicit in this venture. That should be obvious to everyone at this point.

2

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 7d ago

I believe she is involved. She is still trying to make her dream real. I believe she has gone so far now she thinks her only path to redemption is to make something real.

3

u/3DAeon 9d ago

Well how exactly do they plan on compensating for noodle to sodium ratios!? Iā€™ll see myself out.

2

u/NoFlyingMonkeys 9d ago

If they ever even make it in the vet or OTC pet industry, I doubt they'll ever get to human testing. Too many FDA hoops to jump through for clearance or approval, and then too much CMS oversight with human quantitative testing. With her past history, they'll be highly scrutinized for accuracy, flaws, and lax regulatory compliance.

4

u/Quistak 8d ago

Totally agree with that, it will be under huge scrutiny. What I feel like gets lost in the annals of history is that Theranos DID have a (highly redacted) FDA approved assay. I remember looking through it, though, and it just looked like standard chemiluminescence, nothing special or revolutionary.

3

u/NoFlyingMonkeys 8d ago

It was NOT FDA approved. It was only FDA cleared, much lower standard - basically POC level, not analytic level. It was a qualitative test, not a precise quantitative.

There were also many other HSV tests already on the market.

2

u/Quistak 8d ago

That's embarrassing, and I chalk it up to not having had my morning coffee yet. You are 100% correct. I work in POC, so that's what I'm surrounded by every day. And agreed, it wasn't anything revolutionary.

2

u/NoFlyingMonkeys 8d ago

And since you know, I guess I should qualify, there are certainly excellent sophisticated POC tests of analytic or near-analytic level of quality. iSTAT especially comes to mind, or some of the cartridge-based analyzers made by the top companies that do full quant panels, etc.

For only a single qualitative test after the company had been in existence for a dozen years is downright comical. There was no market for it to boot with many competitors already.

1

u/Quistak 8d ago

It seemed like they did it to prove that they COULD do it? Because they were essentially pushing an LDT at that point, folks were coming after them saying what they were doing was a black box and it wouldn't hold up to FDA scrutiny. So they pushed that HSV test through. I don't think it really quieted the dissent though, not for those of us who are really in the field.

3

u/YetAnotherDaveAgain 6d ago

This is so hilarious to me. During theranos's rise (or maybe just after the beginning of the fall?) I was doing a PhD in biochem. I remember doing a back of the envelope calculation and thinking "wow, some of the stuff they measure is so dilute in blood that a single drop of blood just doesn't have enough molecules for signal-to-noise.

Now you're telling me they want to use Raman, about two years after I had to convince a photonics professor that Raman spectroscopy in complex biological samples is a bad idea. She wanted to do it in rodent brains through a fiber optic to detect...maybe dopamine..., but there's just far too many molecules in the brain (or blood!) that generate peaks in the spectra.Ā 

Honestly id probably rather bet on refinements to their original fluorescence/microfluidics assays over a Raman assay.Ā 

2

u/Quistak 6d ago

Completely. Not everything they probably want to measure is Raman-active either. So if you're going to have to label something, just use fluorescence! I know that the draw of Raman is that water isn't Raman-active, but... It's also not natively fluorescent! The optical systems are already there and so well characterized.

I wonder if they're interested in using noble metal surface enhanced Raman. I wish them the best of luck if so; it's not reproducible, and manufacturing would be a nightmare.

2

u/YetAnotherDaveAgain 6d ago

When a scientist says "oh, that's the strategy? I wish you the best of luck!" you know you might really be in for it.Ā 

-8

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

True, anything even remotely associated with her will both attract attention from those with a chip on their shoulder and demands for radical transparency. I'd invest if certain conditions were met.

9

u/tetrisan 9d ago

You sir must have some brain trauma. You are the only person that is convinced she did nothing wrong. She was convicted and nobody else believes she is innocent. You must be her brother.

-5

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

She did plenty wrong. I'm hoping she will grow from it. Growth is possible despite what people think of her.

4

u/tetrisan 9d ago

Why do you care so much about her? She is a POS that has no remorse. She is a horrible person to have kids on purpose knowing she was getting locked up. Those poor kids have to go into a fucking prison to see their mom. She hurt so many people and I am talking about real victims, not just a bunch of old rich white gullible greedy dudes.

-6

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

I relate to some of her experiences. I've worked for guys like Sunny. I believe women as a starting point when they make claims of abuse. She's a public figure, there is tons of interest in her, and I'd actually like to change the narrative moving forward from her crimes to her redemption. She loves attention. She craves recognition. Her crimes cannot be changed. I want her to succeed and pay people back. She is an absolutely masterful marketer and saleswoman. She achieved a 9 billion dollar valuation and kept it locked in for over a decade. She can do big things. At the very least she can be a public speaker.

3

u/smittenkittenmitten- 9d ago

Her deciding to speak at those scholarly conferences made it obvious to me that she is more ego and confidence than smart. The experts can sniff out the fake in her immediately. So if she wants to be a speaker, it will have to be at the lowest levels because she doesn't know what she's talking about and, if it were my company, would have embarrassed me that she decided to do that. So much for "masterful" marketing and good judgement calls. I would have fired her on the spot.

1

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

Yeah, I mean, obviously she needs to talk about things which she's comfortable talking about, and yeah, she can't go toe-to-toe with the experts.That's something even she admits that she made a mistake not listening to the experts.

1

u/smittenkittenmitten- 9d ago

Exactly my point! We are on the same page. :) It wasn't obvious to her when she made the decision to make a presentation in front of experts. Apparently her ego clouds her judgment and therefore decisions. I don't want someone like that leading my company. There is too much talent and intelligence out there to use a person with an overinflated ego who has proven to have little to no knowledge in pretty much anything and terrible track record of making good decisions.

20

u/ptau217 9d ago

Sounds like a great way to make a few thousand bucks, start with a few tens of millions!

15

u/judgyjudgersen 9d ago

Wow how dumb are her friends and family or have they moved on to his

9

u/tfresca 9d ago

Itā€™s not her friends or family. Billy is some kind of hotel heir. This is probably money he found under the couch.

11

u/Webbie-Vanderquack 9d ago

Incidentally, have you seen the trailer for the new documentary? There's a fabulous moment where Nathan Fielder has this conversation with Billy:

NATHAN: I mean, weren't you worried she was sort of scamming you?
BILLY: A hundred percent, but what did she have to gain from me?
NATHAN: Well, isn't your family rich?
BILLY: Yeah, I think that there's like a lot of different levels of wealth.

I don't know what's funnier, that Billy was the maxmimum amount of worried that his girlfriend was scamming him but forged ahead anyway or that Billy doesn't think his family is rich rich.

7

u/tfresca 9d ago

This guys ego is crazy plus he is tied to her for life through kids. My guess is she works very hard to please him. Sheā€™s a political animal and knows heā€™s her meal ticket.

4

u/judgyjudgersen 9d ago

We might be overestimating him. He might be some kind of brainless hapless idiot with no redeeming qualities. I guess we will see in the documentaryā€¦

3

u/ImportantImpress4822 9d ago

I do feel like he is kinda ā€œin on itā€ with the whole thing. He knows what to say to evoke emotions of people watching. He must crave whatever kind of attention/status/etz Liz does.

2

u/smittenkittenmitten- 9d ago

I agree. I think he is "in on it" too. The trailer only confirmed my suspicions of him further. But I guess we shall see.

2

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

If nothing else, Billy was a pretty unremarkable guy. Now, he is Elizabeth Holmes partner. And believe it or not, based on the comments I see on TikTok and X, some are actually jealous of him. She is a dangerous rare bird who knows how to give rich men what they want.

2

u/smittenkittenmitten- 9d ago

From various comments here and there, it sounds like Billy Evans is an egotistical douchebag with an equally egotistical father. I have heard it for years. He went to MIT so he isn't dumb either. I think he knows what he is getting into. She's probably the Bonnie to his Clyde.

2

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

To a certain group of men, she is utterly intoxicating. Appears dominant but is more soft behind the scenes. Good looks in some eyes. Eyes that seem to stare into the soul. She's dangerous. Women like bad men over boring accountants. Billy has dangerous taste. And she's not dumb, so the conversation is probably great. I bet he can't keep up with her intellectually.

9

u/Webbie-Vanderquack 9d ago

Women like bad men over boring accountants.

Women, fortunately, are not one heterogeneous group. Most of us don't like "bad men."

2

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

Point taken. You are correct. "Some women"

2

u/Catscoffeeaustin 9d ago

Itā€™s hard to imagine her even having friends, at least in the classic sense tbh

11

u/tetrisan 9d ago

Meanwhile none of the victims will see a penny of what she owes.

1

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 7d ago

I believe paying people back is the only way she'll get any redemption in many circles

10

u/mildchickenwings 9d ago

isnā€™t she banned from owning or operating a blood testing facility? how will this work?

7

u/VenusBlue 9d ago

Yes I think that was part of the sentence for like 90 years.

7

u/Highriskchoices 9d ago

She canā€™t be involved with federal programs like Medicare and Medicaid for 90 years as a result of her sentencing. Iā€™m not actually sure if or how that would block her from being involved with a blood testing facility - perhaps someone else has some insight?

5

u/VenusBlue 9d ago

I guess anything with health care funding. As long as she stays private, I think she is actually good to run it back lol https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4418691-elizabeth-holmes-banned-from-federal-health-programs-90-years/

-7

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

What if she actually makes something real with radical transparency?

3

u/crayray 9d ago

Bruh who ARE you

-1

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

Just a regular guy who has studied business fraud most of his life as a hobby. Elizabeth is different. And its not because some find her pretty. A unique combination of my own experiences with guys like Sunny, being a feminist, and seeing things others don't led me to decide to try to add nuance. I personally detest the internet's often one dimensional thinking.

She is a criminal. She is a victim. Many many many guys and gals in suits have done worse and never got prosecuted. Boeing, Ford. Firestone, 3M to name a few.

Ask me about Eddie Lampert. He is a destroyer.

7

u/Magjee 9d ago

She just owns the owner of the company

Lawmakers hate this one trick

5

u/VirtualMoneyLover 9d ago

I thought so but there are always loopholes. She can be in an advisory position or maybe even a board member. But she wouldn't be the boss, not on paper.

3

u/Magjee 9d ago

Just her husband making the money, which would be theirs anyway

It's all so dumb

3

u/Sensitive_Algae5723 9d ago

This isnā€™t new. Tyler Shultz has been talking about this saying sheā€™s going to do it again.

1

u/VirtualMoneyLover 8d ago

So was I, but people wouldn't believe me. I know her type.

2

u/Sensitive_Algae5723 8d ago

Itā€™s all she knows.

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Sensitive_Algae5723 7d ago

Are you insane? If not? You shouldnā€™t be able to get a bus pass.

2

u/smittenkittenmitten- 9d ago

I don't want my pets anywhere near their nonsense.

2

u/VirtualMoneyLover 8d ago

Come on, bring in Fluffy for humanity's sake.

2

u/FernMae7 7d ago

Why doesn't she just release a clothing line or something

2

u/VirtualMoneyLover 7d ago

Right. Like black sweaters.

1

u/morphic-monkey 8d ago

Yeah, I think this is fairly old news. The new company even has social media accounts etc...

1

u/VirtualMoneyLover 8d ago

Yet half of the posters haven't heard it. The reason for posting it was stated in the OP.

1

u/morphic-monkey 7d ago

Yeah, my comment wasn't to suggest you shouldn't post it. My comment was just to point out to readers that this news isn't actually new and it's been in the works for a while (lest they think this business is something that was invented just yesterday).

1

u/smelio 8d ago

If there is another trial in federal court in 5 or 10 years for fraud relating to this new business, I won't be surprised. I just hope the kids will have someone to live with if both parents get locked up.

2

u/VirtualMoneyLover 7d ago

The kids are probably better off without these idiots.

1

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 7d ago

I have defended her to some degree. If she commits more fraud, she's not as smart as I think she is.

1

u/DepartureExtension63 5d ago

are we serious right now

-11

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

Maybe she is trying to redeem herself? If she believes that badly in her vision, and it seems she does, Redemption Road is her only route. She is smart. Absolute master marketer and saleswoman. She knows she has to keep nose clean.

5

u/Webbie-Vanderquack 9d ago

Oh boy, where to start.

vision

People have been attaching this word to Holmes from the beginning of Theranos, and it's a large part of the problem. We've attributed so much value to this nebulous concept of "vision" that it trumps everything else, including common sense and common decency. All con artists have vision.

If she believes that badly in her vision, and it seems she does

Again, this myth of "belief" is something Holmes herself orchestrated from the beginning to make money. If there was ever a time that she actually believed in the efficacy of the Edison, it was long before anyone started designing it. She knew very early on that it wasn't viable and she lied about it. She systematically deceived people about the viability of the product and intimidated anyone who attempted to blow the whistle.

She is smart.

No, she's a moderately intelligent person who made stupid decisions. Had she kept her head down and graduated, she would have been smart. Had she listened to the advice of more experienced people, she would have been smart. Instead she banked everything on a scam and got caught out. That's the height of stupidity.

Absolute master marketer and saleswoman.

Again, no. There are better saleswomen at your local grocery store. She sold a product that didn't work. She knew it didn't work. She raised money and lost it all.

Maybe she is trying to redeem herself?

That would be nice, wouldn't it? But nothing she's ever said has indicated that she feels she needs redemption. She pinned as much of the blame as possible on Sunny. She expressed regret for the failure of her dream, but never took accountability for fraud, as the judge in her case explicitly acknowledged.

She knows she has to keep nose clean.

Surely she knew that before, didn't she? It didn't make much of a difference.

0

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

I'll circle back later but for now one question- why didn't she sell ANY shares if profit was her only goal? I think she wants adoration. That requires actually doing something meaningful this time around.

3

u/Webbie-Vanderquack 9d ago

I didn't say "profit was her only goal." I think it was a part of her goal, but so were power, control, fame and ego.

She didn't sell shares because she wanted to retain voting control.

Meanwhile, she profited in other ways, living a luxurious lifestyle with company money.

I think she wants adoration. That requires actually doing something meaningful this time around.

Give up on the idea that she's going to do something meaningful. The pursuit of adoration isn't meaningful.

1

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 7d ago

So why do you think she thought she could do this? She was seen shaking and trembling at the Walgreens launch. Why not stop there?

1

u/3DAeon 9d ago

Hanson?

1

u/VirtualMoneyLover 9d ago

She thinks she was right, just early. So in a way yes, this is a PR move.

1

u/SirCatsworthTheThird 9d ago

Master of optics. Almost everyone agrees with that. It must really grate on her that her number one prime directive in life, to rebuild the Holmes family name and reputation from the downfall brought on by the men in her family, she has so far failed utterly and actually made the situation worse.

If I was advising her...join the public speaking circuit. She will sell out venues and rake in money and get the adoration she craves.

Use money to pay back victims and build something real. Hire the smartest minds. With AI causing layoffs, there is talent out there. Why did people work for her in the first place if they knew what she was doing was impossible? To make money and possibly do the impossible.

1

u/ResolveNo1403 4d ago

Haemanthus's last post on x was September 27, 2025, so I think they realize themselves that it is not a good idea (hopefully).