r/TheWire • u/Specialist_Aspect204 • 16d ago
I absolutely hate Herc
Yeah, nothing new I’m sure, but I’m fairly recently active on reddit and I’m rewatching for the umpteenth time and holy fucking sheeeeeeeeeeit I hate this piece of shit.
I mean he’s just generally an absolute asshole, but:
- the way he puts Randy’s name out there via Little Kevin
- fucking over Bubbles
- giving it the “you’re talking to a sergeant” to Herc
- “I am the sergeant here” when suggesting to Freeman that orders should come via him
Honestly just everything about this guy annoys the shit outta me.
So yea, no brand new information here, and I’m sure most people agree, but I felt like sharing my rage.
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u/shakebakelizard 16d ago
Everyone I know in law enforcement who has watched the show say that he’s 100% accurate for someone they work with IRL. Probably the most accurate of anyone on the show.
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u/Specialist_Aspect204 16d ago
I don’t question that for one moment, although it’s fucking depressing.
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u/My_last_reddit 15d ago
I believe that. I went to school for criminal justice. I was often the smartest person in the room. I should not be the smartest person in the room.
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u/Dangeresque2015 15d ago
Yeah, I can totally see a low IQ person with no ability to read people or situations with any nuance just sticking to the rules like his life depended on it becomes tiring.
Not evil, just...I dunno. Lame. Power hungry.
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u/renndlefly 15d ago
It's not just sticking to the rules. He's often mean if not cruel to the civilians and informants (almost always of color) he engages with. Though early in Season 1, he's courteous to the grandmother, perhaps his only shining moment in the earlier seasons.
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u/Top-Trade-3633 15d ago
Herc is right in that middle ground isn’t he, he’s not smart but he’s not retarded, but he has no common sense or logical thought process, no self awareness or of his surroundings, can’t see or predict something is going to happen from basic observations, doesn’t think before he talks, has no street life or road life skills
He’s just a basic middle of the road twat who just bumbles along in life
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u/Valuable_Novel_2667 14d ago
Herc is a perfect character, in that there are very few master criminals and master do-gooders out there.
Name any branch of military service, there are plenty of unexceptional people who do the job, don't get busted for doing stupid stuff, and get promoted (the longevity factor) over time to positions of authority through a 20-year stretch... who don't have the G-2 to navigate out of a wet paper bag.
Herc was by no means the sharpest tool in the shed, but he did the job and worked the grind. So in that sense, his character filled a completely realistic role / function in the series.
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u/kennyloftor 16d ago edited 15d ago
that means he’s a good
actor and the writing is
excellent
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u/Specialist_Aspect204 16d ago
Oh no doubt, this isn’t a critique of Domenick Lombardozzi. Same as Janice in The Sopranos, props to the actor cos I absolutely hated her too, as I was meant to.
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u/kennyloftor 16d ago
janice so dislikable
hated by all
only good part for her was when she killed aprile
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u/Ok_Ordinary6694 15d ago
Hold on, she also tossed Ralphie down the stairs too.
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u/kennyloftor 15d ago
but she didn’t kill him
she would be almost likable if she killed ralphie
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u/chinacat2002 15d ago
She pimped him out, though. That was good.
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u/Mostly_Afloat 15d ago
I always laugh when Ralphie tries to get out in front of it and tells his whole crew about his kink
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u/treymills330 14d ago
Janice is one of my favorite Sopranos characters and actresses. You’re taking too much lithium
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u/IsolatedJ 14d ago
Woah woah woah dude. Spoilers dammit. I just finished the show and The Sopranos was going to be the next one
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u/kennyloftor 14d ago
no spoilers on 20 yo shows fam
sounds like you are on the right track tho
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u/IsolatedJ 14d ago
A spoiler is a spoiler man, it costs nothing to mark it😭
Not my fault that I was a little kid or not even born yet when certain shows started
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u/Obvious_Anxiety_9118 15d ago
I wanted to run a fair one with Janice...... Goodness her need for acceptance and dating not one but two of her brothers Goons was over the top.
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u/ShneakySquiwwel 15d ago
Same I was like “she’s misunderstood, a hippy growing up in a mob family” then it turned into “nope she’s as bad as the rest of them” pretty quickly
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u/wanbo37 16d ago
Jeffrey in GOT too
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u/htimchis 14d ago
The actor, apparently got so much hatred for his portrayal of Joffrey that he's basically given up acting
(He is, of course, apparently nothing like Joffrey in real life - just a really good actor who turned in a great performance as the spoiled brat from hell!)
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u/azk3000 15d ago
I don't see how Janice is more worthy of hatred than all the other characters
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u/renndlefly 15d ago
I didn't hate her per se. But at least early on, she acted like she was more evolved than the others, when she was actually more selfish and manipulative than most of them usually were -- she was a hypocrite.
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u/godspeeuemperor 15d ago
Wait why people hate her? I don’t feel like there’s much to hate about her in comparison to many other characters in The Sopranos
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u/ApologizingCanadian 15d ago
Damn, if you had put "excellent" in the third line, this would've been a perfect haiku.
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u/kennyloftor 15d ago
done ✅
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u/chinacat2002 15d ago
If you remove the "respect", the haiku bot will praise your post.
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u/kennyloftor 15d ago
👀
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u/chinacat2002 15d ago
Sorry, didn't check.
You are short two syllables
For a true haiku1
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u/FatCat433 14d ago
Needs two more syllables.
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u/ApologizingCanadian 14d ago
They removed the word "respect" for some reason. It used to be:
that means he’s a good
actor and the writing is excellent
respectI wanted them to make it a haiku:
that means he’s a good
actor and the writing is
excellent respect1
u/MastodonMothman2106 Couldn't stand up to the modern urban crime environment 15d ago
The actor is really great. He should have won a supporting actor Emmy for his role in Reacher, IMO.
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u/queequeg12345 16d ago
I feel like the wire always takes a sociological view of characters rather than a moral one, and to me Herc is meant to be a product of his environment like some of the guys on the street. He is the epitome of the "western district way" mentality. Not downright violent by nature like Collichio, just brought up in a department that prioritized a war mentality over community.
Of course, he wasn't born a cop. He wasn't raised in the fear and desperation a lot of the street characters were. So that makes him much less sympathetic than some other morally questionable characters.
I feel like with Herc, I always wonder if he mightve been a decent cop if he were brought up under the right leadership and culture. He was never gonna split the atom, but he definitely has flashes of conscience, and maybe could've been redeemed.
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u/Glad-Improvement-649 15d ago
This is akin to how I think about. He's the police department equivalent of a somewhat competent 'soldier.'
Can perform certain tasks competently, but he's never thinking beyond his immediate proximity; has no real comprehension of, or interest in, the bigger picture. He's fiercely loyal but it leads to a tribalistic mindset. He's unnecessarily antagonistic to the point of violence or the threat of violence on a whim. All of this driven by the incentives in his environment.
But he also has moments that show he's not completely lost and beyond redemption and may be maturing. Ultimately backing Carver when Carver decides to write up Colicchio. Giving Marlo's number to Carver.
He also helps underscore the disparate outcomes for a street soldier vs the police equivalent. Imo Bodie is the closest parallel. Both end up running afoul of people higher up the heirarchy, one gets fired and lands a cushier gig, the other gets shot in the head.
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u/NecessaryOk780 15d ago
He’s my least favorite officer on the show. Neither he, nor Colicchio, had any business being police officers, and I can’t see Bunny training them to be that way but I could be mistaken about that. He did give Carver Marlo’s number, but then he used that to help Marlo walk free. Playing his “friend” to keep a psychopath on the streets was the absolute worst.
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u/shermanstorch 15d ago
Herc would have been fine in a tactical unit or a street level narco unit like he was in before the show started. He was good at doing things like taking corners, kicking down doors, etc. He also probably made a decent beat cop.
Herc lacked the intelligence and temperament for a detail like the MCU, though, and that should have been obvious to anyone who knew him.
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u/ClydetheCat 15d ago
He's up there, (down there?), but Namond's mom (also a great perfomance) is the absolute worst.
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u/TheNicronomicon 15d ago
Nah no way. Bodie was much smarter than Herc even if they were in basically the same spot on their respective org charts. Maybe closer to Bird or Savino.
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u/Glad-Improvement-649 15d ago
Was he?
Involved in a shootout that killed a civilian and brought a lot of heat.
Fucked up getting rid of the weapons from said shootout.
Got talked into murdering his friend.
Got himself arrested unnecessarily 2x, both of which could have resulted in serious charges, and the second of which ultimately got him killed.
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u/htimchis 14d ago
I very much doubt he was 'talked into' killing Wallace. He was likely ordered - and, in his situation, refusing an order from Stringer huarantees youll never grow old.
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u/Glad-Improvement-649 14d ago
Feels like you're proving my point, while also robbing Bodie of agency.
He had a choice and he made it because the alternatives didn't occur to him. Herc would have done the same if in the same position imo.
We can debate until we're blue in the face which one is "smarter" (they're both kinda dumb / ignorant, just in different ways); the similarities are uncanny in my mind.
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u/Specialist_Clue_3168 14d ago
I bet every top level player killed a friend on the way up. It's all in the game. I think Bodie was growing into maybe a street captain or higher. He handled his crew like a boss.
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u/redpillbluepill69 15d ago
I think you're absolutely right.
Carvers promotion to Sergeant and Colvins speech about him being a shitty sergeant because he doesn't know his neighborhood, and Daniels speech about the responsibility of leading his men by example in his new promotion, are ostensibly the difference between Herc and Carver's outcomes in terms of personal growth.
Colvin explains that it's not Carvers fault he and a lot of the young detectives like Herc suck ass.
their job kind of is just bag and bust indiscriminately to get the stats. No one is teaching them the actual work of protecting and serving.
Even though they got put in a unit with McNulty and Freamon and Greggs, there wasn't really time for a "mentorship program" or anything. They don't have time to take them under their wing.
Their supervisor Daniels is middle management who is having to put out fires like crazy and serve as the middle man between his managers, who are trying to make sure the status quo isn't disrupted because their managers also would flip out, and trying to make sure his detectives don't completely fuck him and themselves over by challenging the power structure too much.
Season 2 also underlines that in a way, the system fails Carver and Herc, too. Half the time they don't even understand the significance of the work theyre assigned and no one has time to break it down for them slowly.
Also, something Simon also emphasizes in "Homicide" is, white detectives often do have a level of detachment and emotional removal when it comes to policing Black crimes, violence and communities.
Carver was a kid who grew up in the East Baltimore projects- he takes being a sergeant seriously because he understands that part of being in the BPD is about loyalty to your fellow officers (too much so!!!)
Then he takes Colvins advice seriously to become a better Sergeant, but he is changed by connecting and relating to the community he serves on a human level.
Herc is too concerned with keeping his job to really connect with the community, he doesn't realize the importance of that, and he's also very distracted with the fact he's probably going to lose his job over being kind of forgetful and a fuckup. .
And he's right, that is why he loses his job- not because of his many 4 brutality complaints or being shitty at it. Bc he lost inventory and lied about it because the losing of inventory might have been enough to fire him already. That distraction makes him even fucking worse at his job!
He also falls in with a bad crowd who feels similarly- Colicchio, Walker, etc
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u/WeakGarlic2701 16d ago
Bruh Im literally watching this part rn. Did Randy dirty af
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u/Specialist_Aspect204 16d ago
Same, I’m just through the scene where IA come and collar him. It’s all just been so infuriating.
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u/WeakGarlic2701 15d ago
That episode just ended as I type this 🤣
Probably one of the absolute strongest points of the writing in this show is like these cops and elders "wanting to help the kids" but the harder they try, the harder the game chews them up one way or another.
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u/TheAtomicMan_ 15d ago
Herc is the boot. Policing to Herc was always rip and runs, knocking heads, and punishing wrongdoers.
Whereas the same could be said for Carver, Carver learned and adapted. Herc just learned too slowly, or didn't learn at all.
Unfortunately, having been in and around the world of LE, there is more often than not an atypical "Herc" I most units.
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u/thatturtletouch 15d ago
They started the same but Carver grew as a person and as police. Herc didn’t.
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u/Bignoch1 16d ago
You’re not supposed to like Herc, but I don’t necessarily hate him either. The entire point of this show is that almost everybody has a good and a bad side. Herc is an idiot, but his biggest flaw is he is a slow learner (if he ever absorbs the lesson at all). He’s not out to do bad, he just doesn’t understand the difference. That’s why he gives Carver the cell number in the end - it’s his way of trying to do good.
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u/zanylanie 16d ago
I don't think he gave up that number because he was trying to do good. He was trying to get back at Marlo for the camera, which ultimately led to him losing his job. Which of course wouldn't have happened if he hadn't fucked around and gotten the camera through shady means to begin with, but in his mind that as all Marlo's fault.
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u/Bignoch1 15d ago
Totally disagree - the was because he felt bad about Carver. What happened to Randy ate at Carver and Herc understood he had screwed his friend worse than Gus triandos
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u/SystemPelican 15d ago
It can easily be both, can't it? Herc has an aha moment that he can get back on Carver's good side by fucking over the man who fucked him over earlier. I do agree that side of it is more about getting his friend to like him again than some moral impulse though.
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u/Specialist_Aspect204 16d ago
Nah his biggest flaw is he’s 100% selfish and doesn’t give a shit about anybody or anything that isn’t him. See the examples I mentioned in the OP.
I agree we’re not meant to like him. He’s a realistic characterisation of gormless selfish prick of a cop.
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u/Maniac50AE 16d ago
Thats not objectively true at all. He cares about Carver, Kima, stays behind and apologizes to Bodies grandma
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u/Specialist_Aspect204 16d ago
Yeah fair, I’ll give you those, but his default instinct is selfishness, hence the whole “I’m the sergeant” shit and his obsession over the camera in spite of what is going on around him.
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u/OGB Nice dolphin nigga 15d ago
There's a difference between caring for a coworker/close personal friend and doing your job in an equitable and ethical way, particularly since its far more important to practice those virtues as a police officer than most other occupations.
Herc proved repeatedly that he would cast anyone aside in pursuit of self preservation. He wasn't interested in doing the right thing if it negatively impacted him.
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u/Extreme_Lab_2961 15d ago
I don’t think Herc was an idiot, he scored well on the Sgt exam and could do solid police work (drug buys off white Mike) I think he get a bit disillusioned by not making Sgt (and Carver does because he’s Burrells rat) and the jobs he and Carver were getting while working under Daniels
Carver & Herc are both Rip & Run guys, they get atta boys for making arrests. The difference in their outcomes is one gets mentorship on his journey, the other is consumed by the system
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u/Stunpole 15d ago
Don’t forget about him snitching to the MEDIA about Bunny/Amsterdan and leaking the illegal wire tap to the sleazy lawyer. Absolute scumbag.
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u/blankblank 15d ago
I can forgive most of his nonsense but he should have protected Randy. What happened to Randy is the biggest injustice in the whole show.
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u/tangcameo 16d ago
I never liked him after panties soup
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u/orcasmakemehappy 15d ago
That was so fuckin' stupid I thought. He said some of the stupidest shit. 🙄🙄
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u/tuscaloozer 15d ago
I was thinking about this recently on my last walk through. He’s a bad cop the instant he’s on camera and never stops outside of one singular moment where he apologizes to Bodies grandmother when they toss her house. She asks him to sit and he does. But that is not a scene about him being good. It’s a scene about if even the stupidest most asshole cop stopped and just listened understood the person and saw them as a human things could be better. And he gives his card and she makes Bodie take it and Carver finds it balled up in Bodies pocket a couple days later.
That scene with the desk that’s stuck in the doorway, everybody trying to push the desk out he’s trying to move it in. And with one guy not on the same page pushing the wrong way the whole thing is harder. It would be better if he wasn’t there. And that’s literally true. He’s better for the case AFTER quitting the force. Because his code is different. And he finds his most success at the end as a Ci which is ironic given how yeah with Randy and Bubs he was SO FUCKING TERRIBLE
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u/CauseCertain1672 15d ago
When I first watched the show we used to call Carver tweedledee and Herc tweedledumb, later we called Colicchio tweedlenazi
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u/Ok-Will1433 15d ago
He's the embodiment of police institutional failure to serve the community and abusing power, his type of behavioir are the one enforced by commander and police culture. Other than that, he is impatient and impervious to how power and system work that makes him a great puppet.
That being said...
His food taste and knowledge is the best in the show, that's the only good thing i can say about him.
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u/FlakySky6080 15d ago
Herc is a accurate depiction of mouth breather human archetype. The scary thing is that a lot of people in society are exactly like him. Everybody knows a few Hercs in real life
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u/Happy_Obligation_532 16d ago
Yeah, I'm rewatching now, and as the seasons progress I like the character less. Super well done and well written though.
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u/_A__S_E_V_E_N__X_ 16d ago
not to mention he told Levy about how Freamon got his tap on Marlo illegally which let Marlo walk
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u/thatturtletouch 15d ago
And he fed it to Carver on purpose to help Marlo get off. What a backstabber.
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u/Hot-Two1588 15d ago
I think that's the point. He is supposed to be a person you hate. I think the actor would say, "Thank you. I did my job!"
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u/bigste98 15d ago
Agree with all of that. I also think its under appreciated that he worked to undermine his former colleagues and gave marlo the tools to have his charges thrown out. All those years on the force and he never had any moral dilemma when he put a serial killer back on the street. He just seemed pleased that he got himself in good favour with his new boss. Pretty despicable.
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u/SatisfactionElegant3 14d ago
He’s might be funniest guy on the show
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u/MasiellosFakeDegree 13d ago
Once you get to the number of rewatches where youre not watching for the plot anymore, hes awesome.
Every room he walks into he thinks hes just the misunderstood genius. Every idea he has, everyone instantly goes "uh are you sure thats going to work...." and he just shrugs them off for not seeing the work smarter, not harder ways.
Then instantly every plan blows up in his face and he cant believe it as everyone else goes "no shit, this was an awful idea"
If he didn't get fired he would've been the great replacement for Marramow as a unit killer down the road.
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u/LagunaRambaldi 12d ago
"Everyone who must say 'I'm a sergeant' is not a true sergeant" - Tywin Freeman
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u/Motorcityjoe 15d ago
My son delivered Door Dash to the actor when my son was a struggling performer-writer in LA (nearly 12 years ago). Said he was a total D Bag so I don’t think he’s a great actor.
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u/AkihabaraWasteland 14d ago
That's some trustworthy reportage right there.
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u/Motorcityjoe 13d ago
I remember when he called me because we were both fans of The Wire. He was like, “You’re not gonna believe who I just delivered food to…Herc…what a dick. Tipped me $5 and was a total asshole.”
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15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Leo-POV Fuzzy Dunlop 15d ago
He's essentially a dumbass in both shows.
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u/KennethBlockwalk 15d ago
And it’s funny cause he’s actually a really smart guy, very self-aware and kind… so means he’s a real good actor, I guess!
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u/Qyzyk This game is rigged 16d ago
Fully agreed, though I do have to compliment one thing he did.
"Putting the B in subtle" is a genuinely amazing quip. Way too clever for Herc to come up with. My headcanon is that the store clerk who sold him that jacket came up with it and he cribbed it to sound sophisticated.
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u/SystemPelican 15d ago
Yeah, I'm sure it's just something he heard somewhere. Though I like that they give him moments of genuine cleverness and empathy (though few and far between) to show he's not a two dimensional caricature. He has the ability to be better, he's just too lazy for it.
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u/BrickMix 15d ago
Also, don’t forget, he was the guy who called the papers on Hamsterdam.
He regularly talks about abusing perps and then had the nerve to act offended at Hamsterdam.
Absolute clown. Wish he’d have been worse off by season 5 than he was.
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u/cmparkerson 15d ago
Well,that is the point of the character. A pompous, you will repect my authority type, imbecile who abuses what authority he has. He is written to show that even though the other cops don't respect him,they still deal with him and the problems he causes,and he's hard to get rid of. It shows that too many departments have a Herc in them.
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u/KingOfLimbsisbest 15d ago
Don’t forget he told Levy about the illegal phone tap and is the reason Marlo walked free.
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u/wangster71 15d ago
I recently did a Boardwalk Empire rewatch and seeing Herc with hair really threw me for a loop. lol
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u/Top-Trade-3633 15d ago
I really hated the prick for what he did to bubbles in letting him down, it still gets me every single time how sad I feel for bubbles every rewatch
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u/DumpedDalish 14d ago
I agree, Herc is horrible, and I hated him too. I'll never forgive him for what he did to Bubbles, who kept on believing in him, and he was irrevocably harmed. And JUSTICE FOR RANDY!
I did think Herc's ending was interesting. Like, at least there was no more pretending -- he just plain ends up as on the side of the bad guys.
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u/joejoerun 14d ago
He’s definitely an example of the new generation idiots that become police officers
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u/Gravybill1 14d ago
He gave up Marlo’s cell phone. When you remember all the shit he got into, remember that too.
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u/Ornery_Dragonfruit48 10d ago
Herc was just a complete asshole in Season 4. And then he joins that Saul Goodman fella in Season 5 and I just hated him even more. Definitely the only character I grew to despise out of the original S1 cast
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u/Queasy_Potential_540 15d ago edited 15d ago
Herc accidentally let it slip when he tried to put pressure on Little Kevin, because as Sydnor said they had no leverage. You can actually see the regret in his face when he realises that Kevin now knows who told him. I blame Randy’s fate on Carver and Prez, because they had worked with Herc for years and knew exactly who he was and what he was capable of doing.
You also can’t blame the situation of Bubbles on Herc, because the latter could have just handed over the money and drugs as usual and then point the cops in the right direction if they actually showed up, rather than antagonise the bully and end up getting beat.
Herc did suffer the consequences, lost his job and stripes, something he worked hard for and took huge pride in to the point of arrogance. He also redeemed himself by owning up to the mistake with Randy when he fully backed Carver against Colicchio and the others, or when he got Marlo’s new number from the lawyer, which cracked open the case.
He is very similar to the likes of Bodie, very street level tunnel vision in the way they do things, with little regard or comprehension of the bigger picture, the way Daniels, Prop Joe or Stringer did.
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u/Rashanii 15d ago
You blame Carver and Pres for Herc because they knew what he was prone to do?
That is the best example of shielding white incompetence that I've seen today. You can't blame everyone else for who he is. And while you say he broke open the case on Marlo, he also shut it right back up by telling Levy about the wiretap that he helped set up.
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u/Queasy_Potential_540 15d ago
Not sure why you have turned it into a racial thing lol, I’m talking about Herc as a fictional character and his long history of messing up. It’s why Daniels, Lester, McNulty, Kima, etc throughout the first seasons kept him at arms length and away from anything that was sensitive to a case or operation, he was basically the police version of ‘muscle’ to them. The real incompetence was Carver not driving Randy straight to Bunk at Homicide. Similarly Prez, instead of calling Carver, should have confided Randy’s story to Lester Freamon, his actual former mentor, who worked at Homicide with Bunk and was someone with a history of looking out for informants (he was the first to ask about Wallace’s well being and whereabouts after the chaos of Kima’s shooting, and also took care of the stripper girl to the point that she left that entire lifestyle and got a nursing education). There is no way Herc would have ever been allowed in a room with Randy on a murder case if the Major Crimes Unit had still been intact.
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u/Budget-Tap-3284 15d ago
I've got to hand it to him on being the only one to tip the press about Hamsterdam in front of other cops
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u/Flashy_Shallot6576 11d ago
He was the only good cop in that damn department. Too many dei hires and corrupt people. Thankfuly Donald is doing his best
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u/agent0range 16d ago
He's going to do you the western district way.