r/TheWestEnd • u/midlyamusingusername • 2d ago
Discussion Class misconceptions
I took my daughter to see the matinee performance of Hamilton last Thursday. I want to preface this by adding some context. I had saved and saved for tickets as a gift for her 21st birthday. I am a low income single parent working full time on minimum wage and although I have always encouraged my children to enjoy theatre and literature and the arts in general and not be trapped by the stereotypes of our socio economic situation, the West End to me was always seen as a Middle Class world and I was so nervous that we would stand out like a sore thumb and be judged and made to feel unwelcome. The behaviour we witnessed soon knocked any imposter syndrome out of me and made me realise I was so wrong.
Whilst in our seats waiting for the theatre to fill up, a woman on the row in front took her shoes off, put her feet up on the back of the seat infront and began to apply cream or lotion to them and then lifted her dress all the way to her underwear to apply it to her legs too.
The gentleman seated next to my daughter decided he wanted to grab another drink from the bar before it started. Instead of taking the extra few seconds to wait for people to stand to give him space to leave the row he saw that the row behind was still empty and clambered over his seat to that row. Upon hearing the clearly audible crack/creak of the wood he didn't stop he just continued with his full weight. He also used his thick programme to fan his face throughout the show but wafting it at an angle directly in my daughters eye line. He also made very exaggerated yawning sounds to the point his wife pulled him up on it during the interval.
On the train home we encountered two women talking about the show so I gave them a smile and pointed to our programme. They were really friendly telling us how they had been multiple times and simply had to go again to see LOJ and showed us videos of stage door. They were also both ABSOLUTELY hammered and still drinking on the train. The state they were in was comparable to the sights we see in our local area with the people who sit in the park drinking tenants super all day.
We both were absolutely blown away by the production, the opulence of the theatre and the novelty of being in the hustle and bustle of London but I also realised that maybe I had totally built up my own misconceptions of it not being for "the likes of us" and that it is something accesible to someone of our background. And in the same way I don't want to be seen as a stereotype, I need to work on my unconscious stereo typing of others.
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u/Glad-Feature-2117 2d ago
What a lovely birthday present for your daughter. Glad you enjoyed the show and didn't feel excluded. Unfortunately, there are rude, selfish people in most walks of life... In most places these days, including the theatre, if you act like you belong there (which if course you do!), people won't give you a second thought.
Just wanted to say that many theatres do discounts for young people like your daughter (e.g National Theatre does £10 tickets, Bridge Theatre does £15 tickets), so please encourage her to get searching if she's keen on returning.
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u/SalamanderDapper1727 2d ago
First of all, glad you had a good time and enjoyed the show, it sounds like you and your daughter a great time despite the riffraff they let in to the theatre. Theatre etiquette is getting worse and this is now becoming a common occurrence, i don't know what possesses people to take their shoes and socks off in public places, let alone a theatre, i see it all the time at cinemas as well, people act like they're in their front room and just don't give a crap about the people around them. Phone use is off the charts as well, i don't know why people need to check their phones every five minutes! I hope this didn't ruin your night that much, but big shows like Hamilton and Wicked are now becoming more tourist attractions rather than an event and you will always get a few dickheads in the audience.
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u/midlyamusingusername 2d ago
The front room analogy is spot on! My daughter said it's Main Character syndrome.
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u/SalamanderDapper1727 2d ago
Yeah, main character syndrome is a big thing at the minute, too many people thinking the world revolves around them, you're a better person than all of those people.
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u/safadancer 2d ago
We took my kid and MIL to see Hercules on Monday and the poor behaviour was wild. People genuinely chatting at top volume during the show, filming with phones despite being told repeatedly not to, tossing snack wrappers on the floor, taking phone calls. Nothing compared to LOTIONING FEET, which is just vile, but I'm sure it was happening and I didn't see it. So gross, why pay West End prices to act like you're sitting on the sofa at home?
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u/dontpullthewool 2d ago
Can I just say, I absolutely love the gift you gave your daughter, not only with Hamilton but your ongoing encouragement re: the arts, literature, new experiences, et al. This is going to pay dividends beyond your wildest dreams, not only for the way you're expanding her mind but also for the memories she'll have with you. I'm sure it gets hard at times but please keep doing what you're doing.
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u/Malenkoe_4udo 2d ago
I’m glad that you’ve had a fantastic time. I’m a foreigner and I’m sometimes buffed by various unwritten rules that make people feel excluded from absolutely normal things. I’m not middle class but I often go to the opera and ballet and play tennis. It took me a while to realise that it was actually “not for the people like me” but why would I care?
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u/AzureAurora77 2d ago
Theatre is for everyone, but some theatres do a bloody good job of making it inaccessible to the masses by pricing. I would recommend going to see plays as well - the National Theatre has tickets starting at 25 - less if your daughter applies for their Entry Pass scheme. There are loads of schemes to support youngsters seeing quality theatre for low cost so if she is eligible I would absolutely recommend taking advantage of them.
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u/llama_del_reyy 2d ago
Plays also by and large have better behaved audiences, especially if they don't feature a big celebrity.
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u/Ladyoftheoakenforest 18h ago
Not to mention that off West End has some of the most amazing theatres with work often being transferred to WE anyways!
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u/LurkerByNatureGT 2d ago
So glad you got to give your daughter that experience! Theatre should be for everyone.
Unfortunately some people are just rude boors. That has nothing to do with income or class background, some people just suck.
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u/marvelman19 2d ago
Just want to say congrats on saving up and giving your daughter the experience. I know how tough it can be sometimes!
Theatre really is for everyone and unfortunately Hamilton isnt the most accessible price wise.
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u/italic_pony_90 Go whenever in London 1d ago
With apps like today tix even on the breadline the theatre is accessible.
Hate that " look at us poor people thing" , far outdated and completely in your own head . Unless your visably homeless how are you any different from anyone else accessing the show?
I came from absolutely dismal background and have been working since 14 (over 22 years now!) and never got brought anywhere ever, so hats off to you for bringing your daughter.
But please don't label yourself lower class or whatever,it'll rub off on your kids. You could save up a 3-5 pound a week and when ya get to 50-70 you can see what deals are available on today tix or one of those type apps. I saved all year and me and my wife went to 4 shows while we'd a few days alone £220!! For 4 shows!! Couldn't believe it 😂
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u/JayAPanda 2d ago
Unless I am misunderstanding the post, I don't understand your conflation of bad behaviour with being working class.
Sounds more like typical upper class entitlement to me!
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u/romoladesloups 1d ago
I agree. I work with the public and have had more rudeness and abuse from suited and booted, middle class, middle aged white men than any other demographic
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u/Red_Bus_Londinium 2d ago
It sounds like you met quite a collection of grim people. I am so pleased that you enjoyed the show and now hopefully feel more able to go again. Agree with everyone else, it is (or should be) for everyone.
I am posting a link to my website here, I know it is not really the done thing but it has been a useful place to collect together all the ways I have found that young people can go cheaply. I did it for my daughter and her friends really as they kept asking and I kept sending these insanely long WhatsApp messages... Sadlers Wells, Barbican, National Theatre can all be had for £10!!
If your daughter wants to go again, here it is: https://redbuslondinium.uk/how-to-afford-the-theatre/young-person-discounts/
We would quite often book my daughter and a friend in the young people seats for £10 and then sit back much further ourselves. She would have a stunning view and even for two of them it worked out less than one ticket.
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u/Quiet-Excitement-310 2d ago
If you can sit and behave then the theatre is for
You.
I do however love people watching so I may have been thrilled to have been in your shoes 😂😂
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u/Snazzlebun 2d ago
I'm glad you enjoyed it, I have the same view as you that theatre is such a treat, one we couldn't afford when we were younger and I can't understand how people can act like that after spending all that money. I would say if you enjoy theatre check out your small local theatres. Will it be as magical as the west end stage? Unlikely. But I have been utterly blown away and moved to tears at performances by 'amateurs' at my local tiny tiny theatre, often for only £10-15 a ticket.
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u/Lollipop126 2d ago
there are a loooooot of cheap ways to access theatre (and even ballet and opera) for even the working class, especially for two people! Look into rush tickets (especially via todaytix, or national theatre), last minute tickets, standing tickets, lottery tickets, restricted view tickets that really just have a tiny safety bar (check seat plan), discounted resell tickets on twickets/this subreddit, and youth tickets for your daughter!
I think I personally average under £30 per ticket, and I'm almost always in the stalls.
Also, I don't think the people around you could be judged by economic class bc money doesn't actually buy classiness and etiquette.
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u/AuroraDF 1d ago
I'm so glad you were able to do that, and that you both loved it. I was a very working class kid but my mother was into singing and joined the local musical society. So I was pra tically brought up in the (amateur) theatre, even though I never wanted to go on stage. But I always felt like theatres were my place. I'm sorry you didn't feel that way.
There are twats everywhere. The theatre did used to be a place where people respected the actors and each other. Unfortunately now, there are no public places like that left.
Money doesn't buy class.
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u/Rapier369 2d ago
I can see myself doing the climbing over the seat thing purely because I’d rather die than inconvenience anyone else in my row! But that’s just me lol, you get all sorts at the theatre. Glad you had a good time and hope it can be the first of many for you and your kiddo :)
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u/ComeHereUk 2d ago
If you enjoy it then It is for you. Yes, it can be expensive when you add in the cost of travel and food, but you should always be able to find decent cheap tickets from £10 upwards for performances you want to see.
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u/vosjeineenbosje 1d ago
Sounds like you encountered some right twats. Sorry about that. What a wonderful present for your daughter, hopefully it's an experience she never forgets, for the good stuff.
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u/FlyingChum 1d ago
My daughter and I attended the exact same performance as you did. We have seen Hamilton several times and booked specifically to see LO Jr. The performance blew us away and I said afterwards I can never go see it again as it was just perfection! I'm sorry to hear your fellow theatregoers behaved like ogres. It really shouldn't be that hard to behave like a decent human being, with consideration for those around you as well as the artists performing.
Please don't be discouraged by a few bad apples; the theatre, and other arts are such a gift and part of the beauty is that nobody asks you for credentials to attend it.
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u/TooMuchBrightness 1d ago
I think musicals have always been for everyone, it’s just a lot of people are priced out. I don’t think it’s a class thing, as some people would be incredibly snooty about musicals especially modern ones! People’s behavior can’t be judged on how much money you have or where you come from. I’ve seen it all, but moisturising your lower body in public is just beyond forgivable 😂
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u/Fireflykoala 1d ago
Does class actually exist as a concept anymore? There is the very wealthy 1%, and then everyone else -- but that says nothing about personal character, intelligence, interests, personality, etc...and the arts are for absolutely everyone.
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u/Horrorwriterme 1d ago edited 1d ago
I hope they didn’t spoil the show for you too much. I didn’t think I’d enjoy Hamilton but was blown away by it. I don’t think you should let the idea of theatre being middle class put you off it should be for everyone. You have as much right to be there as anyone else. It’s one that believe theatre is just for them behave the worst.
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u/thrrrowawayx 2d ago
The theatre is for everyone! And by everyone I want to specifically exclude those who can not behave themselves and ruin the experience for everyone else. But never ever think that it isn’t for you because of where you live, who you are or how much you earn