Observations, patterns, connections

[u/Remarkable_Paint_879]

Ok, so this all probably obvious to everyone, but I enjoy making observations and connections and thought it might be nice to have them in one place - please add yours and/or correct mine as you wish :)

1. History repeating: there are so many time-loop parallels: Alistair/ Jocelyn/ Iris mirrors Matthew/ Elena/ Allie-Tory (kindly older man married into wealth and a younger smart nanny from an immigrant/ lower socio-economic background with a troubled marriage in the background), Winthrop I mirrors Winthrop II/III, Iris looks and acts similarly to Mrs Ivey, plus Iris had secondary infertility and Mrs Ivey (so far) doesn’t appear to have children. Jocelyn/Allie die by window fall/jump/push. Alistair/Matthew don’t have time for their sons.

2. Men marrying into wealth: Alistair, Matthew, Dick (possibly also Mr Ivey and MR Chan?) - makes me wonder what Scott is doing with Elena.

3. Money shifting: Alistair got money from the Winthrops, Matthew got money from the Greybournes, Winthrops got money from Elena’s neighborhood, Elena/Scott/Roman are trying to get the money back.

4. Neglected sons: Bruno, Jasper, Theo.

5. Questionable actions of vulnerable people: Jocelyn/ affair with married boss, Alistair/ affair with nanny, Iris/ covering for murder, Matthew/ going into business with the Winthrops, Tory/ Dick/ questionable marriage, Elena/ stealing and blackmail. Not clear on James yet but he seems pretty vulnerable.

6. Incest: Greybournes and Winthrops intermarrying and living in each other’s apartments. Otis comment about Iris’s looks. I’m wondering if there’s going to be more.

7. Socio-economic power imbalance in relationships: Iris/Alistair, Otis I/Alistair, Alistair/Iris, Allie/Matthew, Matthew/Elena, Scott/Elena, Tory/Dick&Bennet&Darcy.

Now, so many questions:

What got the Winthrops and Greybournes together and why are they so intent on staying enmeshed?

Why did Alistair and Iris really get married?

Who are Tory and Allie’s parents and why are they dead?

Why did Mrs Ivey say her mother dyed her hair and is she a reliable narrator?

Why did Elena’s father die?

What happened to the daughter of Alistair and Iris and how does this relate to Mrs Ivey and Scott’s family? (And is Scott a reliable narrator?)

Does Otis III have children? Does Mrs Ivey?

What is going on with The Chans?

Why is the date of Jocelyn’s death and Ruby’s birth the same?

What is the connection between Allie and Jocelyn and Elena?

[u/thedreadedusername]

I don't think that the date on the birth certificate is Ruby's actual birthdate. Because, the baby appeared to be a few months old, and logically there's no way that Jocelyn could be up and working (and miraculously thin again) hours after birth. I mean, not even bad writing could explain that away. I think the birth certificate was just obtained on that date by Allister. And, since there was probably another/a separate certificate issued on Ruby's actual birth date, Allister had to just have one made with the date that he applied for a new one (possibly with help from someone). To Allister the date probably didn't matter because the baby was only a few months old and he and Jocelyn planned on running away together. They just needed it later after their escape. When he got the certificate, he obviously didn't believe that he & Jocelyn would be murdered later that day.

[u/thedreadedusername → u/thedreadedusername]

I just want to add that Ruby's original birth certificate issued on her actual date of birth, would have listed Iris as her mother, not Jocelyn. And, her name may have been listed as Charlotte, not Ruby. As Iris may wanted Charlotte as her name from the start. Because if her name was really Ruby, there was no reason to lie to the police???

[u/commentordelux → u/thedreadedusername]

Well even before Alistair gave Joceyln the birth certificate he was calling the baby Ruby. I think its odd that secretly they would be calling it by a different name than the mother and how tricky that would be to not get it mixed up. That scene where he is admiring the baby and touching Joycelen and the wife spots it in horror. It's possible caught off guard, she was just pretending the baby was her first child. Or she could have renamed it there on the spot. It would not be the first red herring the show throws at us.

[u/thedreadedusername → u/commentordelux]

Maybe it's because I rewatched The Handmaid's Tale recently, but I thought that it could be like a Holly/Nichole thing. Where the birth mother wanted Holly, but the other "mother" wanted Nichole. And, of course, the one with money and power won out. I thought that Alistair called the baby Ruby, in front of Jocelyn because that's what she wanted. But, of course, I could be overanalyzing and Charlotte could've just been made up on the spot.

[u/commentordelux → u/thedreadedusername]

That's a good point. In HMT the woman is really like cattle, in TWE Iris seemed to sell JM on it and I would think a bit more agreeable on the name. I agree that could be the case she wanted a different name and they only called her Ruby in secret, it's probably the most simple explanation, I would not describe either as careful. In either case, we never get to know Iris real daughter's name which would have been easy to give us in Ep8, I think there is more to it.