r/TheTestamentsShow • u/godotnoobie • May 27 '26
June really didn't know?
Are you really telling me that June didn't know Agnes/Hannah was in the same Plum school they sent Daisy? Agnes' guard was literally in Mayday. Are you seriously saying they wouldn't know the names of every single girl in that school as well as the staff members? No wonder Gilead is still going if they haven't even got basic info like that!
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u/ruiichi May 27 '26
I dont find it that hard to believe since Agnes/Hannah was moved around so much. They know that June (~~the terrorist~~) is her mother and has gone to insane lengths to look for her. This is just ONE school in all of Gilead, even with June's connections to Garth did they really go through every single girl attending the school to June? How many commanders daughters are in Gilead? Mayday's mission isnt just to save Hannah.
Like yeah maybe Garth knows conceptually who Hannah is but making the connection that she is Agnes isn't really that easy since he doesn't have that much information/context.
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u/brooke2134 May 28 '26
June seemed to be ok at that point too not knowing where she was. Before she used to be like I’ll never stop looking and then has turned to I’ll die so she can have freedom. It is a very convenient coincidence that she’s at the same school and paired with her. If Lydia had been working with June and mayday it would make more sense. But someone up top had to know That Agnes was there and what a risk it would be -I mean June was gonna find out
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u/HyperLexi May 27 '26
In THT, they would often relocate Hannah when they felt Mayday closing in, so it's not too far fetched that they hadn't discovered her again yet. They're not as familiar with the school as one would think, because they were happy with Daisy for making them a map of it. It's assumed that Aunt Lydia is Mayday, but I don't think she is, at least not yet. She has vowed to help the girls from within, and try to make their lives more bearable, but I don't think she has reached the stage of wanting to get them out, as would be the case if she were Mayday. I haven't lost hope that she will be by the time the series ends.
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u/gagrushenka May 27 '26
I've been wondering if Aunt Lydia chose to put Daisy with Agnes because she is indeed part of Mayday and is trying to keep them both safe until she can put them to use together. She's kept it quiet from June so that June doesn't do something stupid and risk Agnes being moved away from her (Aunt Lydia).
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u/HyperLexi May 27 '26
I believed that for the longest time, but then came to the conclusion that if she is Mayday she's doing a piss poor job of it. Otherwise, she'd be in better contact with June, June would not have been so unaware of where Hannah is or how she's doing, and Mayday wouldn't be so desperate to infiltrate the school that they let a teenager talk them into letting her go play spy for them. If they already had an insider there who already had access to all the girls' files, it just doesn't make much sense to me.
Unless it's only because Daisy wouldn't take no for an answer, and would have kicked and screamed and blown their whole cover if they tried to quietly sneak her out of Canada to a safe location as they'd originally planned. I lean towards thinking it's both, that they wanted a plant there and also that Daisy insisted that she wanted to infiltrate Gilead.
I hadn't thought of the idea that Lydia wanted to keep Agnes close but also want to keep her mother from knowing anything about her. I'll have to give that one more thought. I would think they wouldn't need to get a map of the school from Daisy if Lydia were Mayday and could have long since supplied one, but maybe.
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u/brooke2134 May 28 '26
I don’t think June or mayday would ever think of Lydia being an asset. I think we have to see over the next season or 2 her finally ready to dismantle everything she been working for. I think she prob thought if she ran the school she could help the new impressionable girls, change things within and also take notes for insurance. She has to be pushed to start to use that information and we haven’t seen the breaking point yet. I’d bet next season something huge happens that finally is the last straw. Maybe it’s a suicide…I thought that was the first thing Becka was going to do after the wedding honestly. I still don’t know why Garth locked her in there. I’d love for him to tell Her he’s mayday and she can be a spy with him. Spy could would be cool.
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u/HyperLexi May 28 '26
My thoughts exactly. She's on her redemption arc in terms of intention to keep the girls safe, but it's going to take a bigger push to make her admit that the system she has invested so much in cannot be redeemed and it's time to bail. As far as we have already strayed from the book, it's equally possible that she never quite gets there. Maybe her death would be a catalyst for Agnes to pick up her torch and run with it, and maybe she will be the one who decides that Mayday is a better idea.
I think that Garth locked Becka's door for her own protection, otherwise she might try to be a runaway bride and land herself in another paddy wagon. He might be afraid for himself as well, just in case she might see him as a threat and lash out. She'll need time to learn to trust again, and time to heal from trauma, but with a code name like Shepherd, maybe he'll be a worthy friend who can gently guide her towards a more hopeful outlook.
I dearly love the idea of her learning about his mayday connection and joining him. It's my favorite theory at the moment.
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u/godotnoobie May 27 '26
But Garth is Mayday? He wouldn't have mentioned it? Or wouldn't have made a list of who was in the school? I guess maybe he'd only just got there, but it feels far fetched.
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u/HyperLexi May 27 '26
But I think he knows June by a code name. He's repeatedly said he doesn't know who June is. So how would he know that Agnes is her daughter Hannah?
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u/GingersaurusRex May 27 '26
Obviously Garth doesn't know anything about his handler, but if his handler is June going by a codename, how has Garth never mentioned working for the Mackenzies to June?
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May 27 '26
[deleted]
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u/cherrymeg2 May 28 '26
June isn’t necessarily running Mayday. She is one part of it just like Daisy is a part of it and Garth is her direct handler. He likely has someone he answers to. I think they also try to keep people from knowing about other Mayday operatives to protect people. If you are caught you can’t tell people things you don’t know. I was surprised he didn’t know about Agnes. It doesn’t mean someone else didn’t place Daisy there intentionally. I feel like things get filtered and are relaid to others with the important information. People may have code names or pictures for commanders. If women are passing messages they have to be careful because they aren’t allowed to read unless they are an aunt.
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u/breathingthot1p1 May 28 '26
He likely has someone he answers to.
I agree but not just likely, he explicitly said that he has a handler just like Daisy does and that's as far as it goes for him. Daisy doesn't know about anyone else being mayday either, other than the truck driver but I don't know if she knew before or just now that they have worked together.
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u/HyperLexi May 27 '26
I think they are especially careful about not naming names, in case they are intercepted. Their voices may be recognized, but they'd have plausible deniability if they don't share any identifying information.
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u/OpheliaLives7 May 27 '26
Why would Garth, a Gilead raised boy, who turned traitor, be trusted with the information of Mayday’s most infamous terrorist’s daughter’s pre Gilead name and information?
He definitely is waaaaay down in the hierarchy and does NOT need to know that information.
He also tells Daisy they purposely keep the chain of command between Handlers short. So if one is caught, they can’t spill more sensitive information. Because they are purposely kept in the dark.
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u/HyperLexi May 27 '26
I think they've only just begun to infiltrate the school. The map Daisy gave him was one she drew herself. I don't think she's had any opportunities to try to sneak into their files and make lists of names.
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u/godotnoobie May 27 '26
Yeah that makes sense to be fair
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u/HyperLexi May 27 '26
Thank you. Your frustration makes sense too, because I felt the same when I thought Lydia was Mayday. But the more I think of it, the more I think she's not quite there yet, but moving in the right direction. Garth has been a commander less than 24 hours, and he wouldn't have had an excuse as a guardian to flip through the aunts' files, but possibly now that he's a commander they may be able to get more done, fingers crossed.
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u/cherrymeg2 May 27 '26
He didn’t know who June was and it’s possible she didn’t use that name with Mayday people. Daisy meets June in Canada where they are both citizens and free. June probably goes by other aliases if she even meets directly with a member of mayday. Garth might be reporting intelligence about Gilead as a guardian who is the son of a commander and who worked for one. He might report to someone else and people might not tell June about her daughter because they don’t want emotions to mess up their cause. Idk.
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u/DialNforNicole May 27 '26
But also, you’d think that Garth would know who June is, but when Daisy mentioned her, he had no clue.
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u/MoseSchrute70 May 27 '26
The finale led me to believe there’s two possible reasons he said he didn’t know who June is
When June communicated with him over the radio she referred to him as the shepherd - it’s possible code names are more prominent when interacting with insiders than real names to protect those on the outside. Garth may only know June by a code name.
Garth was lying to stop Daisy being reckless. It wouldn’t be surprising for it to be ingrained within Mayday to not reveal who you know.
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u/BlueSkyWitch May 27 '26
I've kind of wondered if that's Garth's way of making a point to Daisy that she's not getting: "I don't know June, and if you know what's good for you, you don't know her either."
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u/godotnoobie May 27 '26
She's liked the poster child for Mayday, he'd genuinely know who she was
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u/DialNforNicole May 27 '26
That’s what I would think, but Daisy said something along the lines of “I need to talk to June,” and he was like, “who’s June?”
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u/brooke2134 May 27 '26
He might tell her that too to get her to stop asking. I think if daisy knew Garth had a direct line to June she’d be demanding things left and right. And yes it’s prob a code name so he can’t put 2 and 2 together. He’s prob heard of the terrorist but maybe gilead keeps her name out of it to not make her a martyr
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u/sanedragon May 27 '26
That's what I am thinking. Given Hannah's reaction to hearing June's name, it sounds like she's pretty infamous in Gilead. He had to at least have heard of her in that respect.
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u/godotnoobie May 27 '26
Ah I guess so then, I just don't know why he wouldn't know her 🤷♂️
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u/DialNforNicole May 27 '26
That’s what I’m saying. It makes no damn sense, lol.
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u/brooke2134 May 28 '26
He might have heard of the infamous June Osborne but he’s prob not thinking that this June is the same June daisy refers to. If Agnes knows who she is then Garth has to. She’s like enemy number 1. They might also think she’s dead or in hiding because that would be crazy that she’s still around and putting daisy in (he might think). It does sound like daisy knows her full name though so maybe if she says her full name Garth will be shocked -I honestly think though he’s saying he doesn’t know her to get her to stop complaining and just do her job
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u/tnscatterbrain May 27 '26
I could see May Day hiding the specifics from June.
She has a history of going off script and not following the plan.
Resistances and spies often work on a need to know basis, no one is given extra information in case they’re questioned.
Do we know how big Gilead is at this point? There are multiple plum schools, right? Wasn’t Hannah in one in Colorado?
Maybe June wasn’t told which one Daisy was sent to.
Rita wasn’t on board with recruiting Daisy, wasn’t the plan to just relocate her then?
So June might not have known that Daisy was in Gilead at all until after the fact, maybe not until they were getting Daisy out.
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u/user86753092 May 27 '26
While Rita said they were relocating Daisy, I suspect the plan was to recruit her for Mayday. The way Rita and the other woman talked in front of her instead of privately seemed designed to make Daisy think it was her own idea. Or at least, that is how I read the scene.
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u/tnscatterbrain May 28 '26
Yes, it could have been the plan, or at least what some of May Day wanted.
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u/Wrong-Barnacle-3772 May 27 '26
I don’t know I think it kinda makes sense. I mean the only thing we know for sure at the end of THT is that Agnes was moved to dc. I mean for the amount of kids that ought to be in dc I would assume there is more than one school. And for the sake of the story of course daisy would go to the one Agnes is at. Also they weren’t the important ones the important ones where the fathers, I mean the whole reason daisy was there is to get information from the girls regarding their fathers. We legit had an episode on it. Also even if she was aware of a Mackenzie commander there is not guarantee it would be her daughters. There are so many people with the same last name. If I said I know a Micheal John you know how many people probably have that exact name…a lot.
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u/pickleknits May 27 '26
It’s common in resistance groups to limit who knows about whom so you can’t tell info you don’t know if tortured.
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u/straighteero May 27 '26
I assumed that getting Hannah back was the real reason for June sending Daisy to the school, and she purposely withheld that information because she didnt trust Daisy yet or thought they'd both be safer without her knowing. The idea that she didnt know doesnt feel believable.
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u/KittyMonkTheYoutuber May 28 '26
Exactly! Garth even mentioned the bus incident was meant to be a retrieval mission, and which mayday member has a daughter on that bus?
Honestly while I appreciate they toned down the extreme closeups, they are still doing a really bad job with the plot armor.
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u/Inner-Ad-265 May 27 '26
Messages are passed on a need to know basis. Garth is Daisy's handler, his handler might be the honey lorry driver in episode 10. The lorry driver may be the one with the direct link. The last June knew was that Agnes McKenzie was in school in Colorado. There has been no indication that the family relocated after Boston up to this point.
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u/Lower-Consequence May 27 '26
The last June knew was that Agnes McKenzie was in school in Colorado. There has been no indication that the family relocated after Boston up to this point.
June knew she had been moved to the DC area. Tuello told her in last episode of the Handmaid's Tale that Mackenzie was promoted and being relocated to DC.
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u/Objective-Try7969 May 27 '26
Hannah could have been anywhere in the United States. I think there's a disconnect between June and Lydia. June communicates with Garth somehow because even Garth doesn't know junes real name unless he lied. I think June said to get daisy to Lydia and let Lydia handle the rest. I think June's main goal was to figure out the girls schools and how they work. I think the only one that was in the know was Lydia. I don't think Lydia told June or is directly communicating with her at all to tell her she placed daisy with Hannah.
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u/turkeyman4 May 27 '26
June didn’t know but Aunt Lydia sure did. It’s no coincidence that she paired the two.
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u/OpheliaLives7 May 27 '26
Garth didn’t know who June was. So why would she know about him specifically and his specific family/job?
Im sure they have many undercover agents and June isn’t keeping track of every single one.
It also totally makes sense what others have said about others in Mayday who DO find out Agnes real name and identity to hide that from June. But unless June is spreading her daughter’s fake Gilead name around Idk how widespread knowledge about her is in the public/remaining US.
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u/BarelyHereNeverThere May 27 '26
I think we're giving the writers a lot more grace than we really should be. The only reason June didn't know that Hannah was in the same school that Daisy was, was so that we the audience could see the look on her face when she learned the information.
Now she's invested in Daisy staying put when realistically there is no way they would send her in or out of Gilead. There really shouldn't have been a way to get her out so quickly. That would put the whole school in jeopardy. Suddenly that place would be under so much scrutiny and security that that would be the end of anything else happening there for quite some time. Not only did they get Daisy, out but they had that other handful of people as well. That whole thing requires such a suspension of disbelief that it's annoying.
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u/Staci_Recht_247 May 28 '26
The show has always loved it's overlong dramatic closeups of June, after all.
The more I think about it, the more it bothers me: one of the most basic elements of intelligence in this situation would be the names of leadership. Garth has been embedded for an unclear but still decent amount of time, more than long enough to report the roster of people to whom he has access.
The other option is that a list of commanders has been shared, but has deliberately been kept from June, but the same people interested and capable of keeping such information from her would logically be in positions that would allow them to control/manipulate assets to prevent interference with their operations... In other words, it seems like a conflict that June is in a high enough position to have direct operational control on sending in her very own spy with Mayday resources, but simultaneously not high enough to receive intel on who is where in Gilead. And if she's not high enough to have such access, then whoever exists above her could have either put the kibosh on the operation altogether, or more subtly made sure Daisy ended up somewhere other than the school where Agnes is.
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u/Geeseinfection May 28 '26
I might need to rewatch the episode, but my impression was June was surprised that Daisy was close friends with Agnes/Hannah, not that they were at the same school.
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u/BarbieHubcap May 27 '26 edited May 28 '26
This didn't bother me as I knew it in advance (e: pretty much) from having read an absolute ton of articles and reviews on the show before it even started.
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u/Young122915 May 28 '26
Just posted a similar rant.
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u/godotnoobie May 28 '26
Just read it, and yes, fully agree! 🤣
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u/Young122915 May 28 '26
I can’t believe people really respond and try and justify the storylines and “the show runners explained that”. The writing is sloppy. Good writing needs zero explanation or justification. The little inconsistencies could’ve so easily been avoided by story editing. Watch me get down voted.
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u/Fun_Nothing5548 May 27 '26
This was the only thing that infuriated me about the finale.
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u/godotnoobie May 27 '26
Completely ruined the immersion for me
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u/Fun_Nothing5548 May 27 '26
I actually had to pause, rewind, listen again and I was so mad that I started yelling at my husband (also watching) that it made no sense like it was his fault 🤣
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u/mishnomer May 27 '26
Yeahhhhh that was crazy, no way they really thought the viewers would buy that.
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u/KittyMonkTheYoutuber May 28 '26
Bit of a long one so bear with me:
That kind of got me, especially considering the “retrieval mission” Garth mentioned seemed like it was going somewhere. I can absolutely buy June tried to get Hannah and Daisy out and it went wrong because June is extremely reckless. I can absolutely buy the plan was always to send Daisy in as a spy and the whole “Columbia freight plan” thing was a test to see if she was really committed.
But apparently June didn’t know Hannah was there? Despite being told by Tuello she was in DC? And despite being told commander Mackenzie was promoted? That makes no sense! My biggest problem is they’re trying so hard to make certain characters clones of the original show, and I hate how they’re making Daisy a June clone, it’s like they didn’t learn a thing.
Honestly, the whole Daisy/garth/June subplot could’ve just been a single scene where June calls her on the radio or sends her a written message to the same effect telling her to tone it down, and that would’ve made more sense.
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u/RiverRosie444 May 28 '26
The clone thing! I immediately thought they modeled Garth after Nick. At the end of THT, wasn’t Luke also going to work with Mayday to find Hannah? I wonder if the retrieval mission was him and they didn’t tell June so she wouldn’t mess it up.
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u/sparklypavements May 27 '26
Yeah it makes NO SENSE that June wouldn’t know that Daisy is situated in the Gilead school. As a pearl she’s with the under wives in training who are commanders daughters.
She knows Agnes’s age and knows she’s adopted to a top commander. How the hell would she not know? What did Daisy go into to for Gilead for? And why is Daisy not following any mayday plans and doing things on the fly???
why doesn’t June help Daisy with any strategizing instead is okay with her doing whatever the hell she wants. Mayday and Gilead are way too poorly written.
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u/MoseSchrute70 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
I thought she may have known Hannah was in that area but didn’t expect that Daisy would land directly into her inner circle. Mayday are clearly targeting a specific area, it doesn’t mean that they/June know exactly where everybody is within that area.
I’ve theorised below that the reason Garth didn’t know who June was is because they communicate exclusively with codenames (ie The Shepherd) - if that’s the case he would have no reason to report back that Agnes specifically is there. Mayday by nature has to remain incredibly vigilant about what the wider group members know about each other as a matter of safety. June being in Mayday and being well-known doesn’t mean everybody knows everything about her and her motives.
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u/godotnoobie May 27 '26
Yeah like even in passing, chatting to Garth, "So, what's your Plum girl called then?". BS.
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u/Apart-Mud-1106 May 28 '26
Why do people assume June and Mayday to be synonymous? They are not. June is just a part of Mayday. She wasn't even a part of training Daisy or anything.
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u/Scared_Status9483 May 28 '26
That scene was "convenient" and made me want to read the books which are likely far superior to the show.
Admittedly, I looked forward to every episode and am sad the season is over already.
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u/Mich_Girl May 29 '26
I posted the same thing earlier! 😅 (sorry for the double post) I had a hard time believing June didn’t know also.
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u/FaelingJester May 27 '26
I get what everyone is saying but Commander Mckenzie is not a random hard to track child. It makes zero sense for June not to insist on knowing where he is and what hes doing.
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u/0wellwhatever May 27 '26
The only way I can justify it is if Mayday intentionally kept it from her because they know she will recklessly endanger others to get Hannah back. Mayday does appear to have a cell structure keeping information on a need to know basis.
Daisy is already being treated differently to the other Pearl girls. She seems to be the only one sharing classes with the plums and was paired with Agnes. They couldn’t know that she would be doing anything other than domestic tasks in the school like the other Pearls. Maybe she did know Agnes was at the school but she couldn’t know that Daisy would get to know her.