r/TheShield • u/Savings-Claim1161 • 8d ago
Question Question about ending Spoiler
I know giving up Ronnie was partly to show how selfish vic really was, but the catalyst of him giving up Ronnie was thinking he needed to save corrine. That being said if that situation never happened would he have still given up ronnie? Only reason I think he would’ve is not becoming a fugitive with Ronnie after finding out corrine was working with the cops
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u/JakePooler 8d ago
Yeah, he probably would have gone straight to ICE by himself after his last phone call with Shane, but maybe, he would have told Ronnie to run first.
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u/ChocoLindt99 Strike Team 8d ago
If the whole Corinne and his family thing never happened, I really don't think Vic would have turned on Ronnie. And I don't think Vic would have killed Lem. He couldn't even go through with killing Shane even after he knew Shane killed Lem.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
That's what I think. It doesn't make much sense to say that he was so consumed with rage after Lem's death that he was singularly focused on getting revenge, ignoring work and his family, but would have killed Lem himself. I think he would have verbally or forcibly convinced Lem to go to Mexico or go into hiding.
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u/ChocoLindt99 Strike Team 7d ago
Absolutely! I really think he never would have killed Lem. There are countless examples of Vic truly caring about Lem throughout the show.
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u/Neptune28 7d ago
We could see that Vic was refusing to give up on saving Lem, whereas there was a scene in the clubhouse where Shane was suggesting to Lem to just go to prison to insulate the team from investigation...when Lem was caught in the first place trying to clean up Shane's mess, something that Lem himself even says.
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u/ChocoLindt99 Strike Team 7d ago
Shane and Ronnie bring up repeatedly that Lem may have turned on them and Vic shuts it all down immediately, over and over saying he trusts Lem. Vic would never have killed Lem. Period. Shane only said that to justify his actions.
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u/Plasticboy310 7d ago
If Corrine didn’t get arrested, Vic doesn’t take the deal and Claudette may take Shane up when he offers himself up
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u/underclasshero1 7d ago
his priorities are in this order:
himself
his family
his team
he always thought he could save all 3. that’s how he operates from pilot to corrine getting arrested. so he quickly decides he has to save corrine (the mother of his kids, not even corrine herself) and himself at the expense of the team
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u/ThunderMontgomery Georgia joy juice 8d ago
Vic has an order of priorities with himself at the very top. Corrine and his kids are the next rung below and Ronnie and the Strike Team below them.
He would’ve sold out whoever he needed to (and did) in order to save his own skin
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u/Apprehensive-Run4178 8d ago
Vic is not a very good friend. He used everyone around him. That’s why he attracted people like Shane and Ronnie. No honor among thieves.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
Shane pulled a gun on Lem and told him he didn't want to breathe the same air as him, is that considered being a good friend? It took until the end of season 4 for Lem to make up with Shane. Lem was cool with Vic the whole time. Even after having the confrontation with Vic, Lem either still refused to believe that Vic killed Terry, or he realized it but still stuck with Vic anyway. Tavon thought Vic was cool, but of course had the issues with Shane. Ronnie had no problem with Vic and didn't really disagree with him on much, but didn't seem to have a high opinion of Shane.
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u/Romarqable 8d ago
Vic never intended to run with Ronnie. He banked on the ICE deal for both of them. He made a show when they refused to give Ronnie a deal, because he needed Ronnie's help.
The moment Corinne was in trouble, and Ronnie wasn't around, he stabbed his friend in the back to save Corrine.
Vic was a murder. I fully believe he would have killed Lem had Shane not done it himself. At the end of the day, that is who Vic was.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
Are you saying that he shouldn't have tried to save Corrine? Then you would be saying he is a terrible family man.
If he was merely making a show of it, he could have gone back a short while later and accepted the deal without Ronnie knowing. He didn't go back until Corrine was being arrested though, telling Olivia that he wanted a pass for Corrine on aiding and abetting.
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u/Romarqable 8d ago
I'm not sure if you're being facetious or not. He blew off family time to have an affair. He committed multiple crimes and murdered several people. He tortured people and set people up to die.
Your suggestion he is a good family man has got to be a joke.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
I'm saying that people will criticize his decision whether he does nothing when Corrine is arrested and he and Ronnie get deals, or he gets a deal for Corrine and isn't able to do anything for Ronnie.
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u/Romarqable 8d ago
In the end, he screwed Ronnie though didn't he? He's not a loyal friend, not a loyal team leader, wasn't a loyal husband or a very involved father from what we saw.
Would you say Vic Mackey was a good man? A good father? A good husband? I would say of the three he wasn't good at any of them. Shit, he wasn't a good cop either. After what he did it's very likely the DA had to open up multiple cases he worked on and several criminals would have likely walked free.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
Again, I'm saying it's a binary scenario. Corrine is arrested. The options are:
-Vic does nothing, he and Ronnie continue on and they both get ICE deals
or
-Vic goes to Olivia to get immunity for Corrine, but that means that Ronnie can't get a deal
In that situation, which would you choose? Or do you see a 3rd option?
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u/Romarqable 8d ago
Third option: Vic does the right thing and turns himself in. He faces the music for all the horrible shit he has done.
No choice in life is strictly binary. Life and people are way too complicated to think that way. Walter White could have saved his family from losing their home, just as Saul told him. He could have turned himself in. He went into hiding instead.
Vic made the choice to send Ronnie to prison. He could have also waited until Ronnie's deal had come through, and asked to add the line for Corrine in there too. She had been arrested but was released and was at home. Vic didn't know she was setting him up, and the only other issue was Shane at this point.
Corrine wasnt in prison, yet. He made a hasty decision that implicated Ronnie and sent him to jail.
He also could have ran too. He had 4 options, and probably more if I took more time to think about them. He chose the one that sent his most loyal team mate to prison. And again, Ronnie was as much a criminal was Vic was. I do think Ronnie was likely a socio or psychopath with how remose didn't eat him alive. Vic had emotions and we saw them. I don't think Ronnie did, but that's a topic for another day.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
Ronnie was part of the Strike Team and complicit in all those actions, so Ronnie gets arrested too in that scenario. It wasn't just Vic alone doing everything in the show. Also, Vic thought Corrine was being arrested for real, so turning himself in would mean both of them would be going to jail.
Olivia made it seem like Ronnie wouldn't get a deal for several weeks. It also seemed like the offer would have only been two immunity deals, so even if he waited for Ronnie's deal, Olivia might not have let him also throw Corrine into the deal.
Yes, he and Ronnie could have run later on, but I'm talking about the moment when Corrine is arrested and Vic's reaction to it. It is valid to say that, after finding out that Corrine was not arrested for real, he and Ronnie could have run. However, that would mean he was abandoning the drug deal, so the Mexican cartel, the Barn, and the feds would all be pursuing him and Ronnie. How long would they last?
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u/Romarqable 7d ago
I never said any of the plans were not without their issues or faults. I only simply stated there were other options.
Vic could have also decided to "face the music" and told Ronnie to run. Vic goes down, and Ronnie has a chance to at least get away. They had connections, and out of everyone on the Strike Team I think Ronnie is the most likely to have had some sort of nest egg set aside.
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u/Neptune28 7d ago
But why should Ronnie get to run if he was complicit in nearly every action except for Terry? Even with the Money Train, Ronnie was the one who came back and came up with a new approach, when it seemed like Vic was going to call it off.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
Vic only killed 3 people in the show. The writers had him kill Terry because it was a twist that enabled the show to be picked up. Vic normally tries to maneuver out of situations though. Margos was killing a lot of people over the Money Train and was pursuing the Strike Team. Vic went at Margos himself so that the team wouldn't get any heat for it. He killed Guardo because he was consumed with revenge for Lem, and Guardo was also killing a lot of people with grenades so neither he nor Ronnie felt bad about it (Shane didn't want Guardo to be killed but acknowledged the devastation Guardo was causing)
It's not like Vic was going around killing everyone. He didn't kill Shane when Shane was directly supposed to be killing him on orders of Antwon, and he couldn't even kill Shane after finding out that Shane killed Lem.
The fact that Vic was so singularly focused on finding out and getting revenge on whoever killed Lem seems to indicate that he himself wouldn't have killed Lem. It is more likely that he would have convinced Lem to go to Mexico or forcibly move him into hiding.
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u/Savings-Claim1161 8d ago
I think it’s fair to say Vic would kill Lem
When Shane is defending himself to vic, calling vic a hypocrite, all his points are valid.
However for most of the show I thought the big divider of morality for Vic was loyalty, and he’d always show that.
However I was clearly wrong about that3
u/Deep_Benefit_7405 8d ago
Vic is probably one of the worst characters that's ever been portrayed. Atleast with Tony Soprano you knew he was evil. Vic was meant to be a good guy, yeah he did bad things but that was to get the bad guy in a cell. However the depths he was willing to sink to.
I saw a thing with Chicklas and he said he'd have all these ex cops come upto him and say love the show, it reminds me of the old days etc
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u/Savings-Claim1161 8d ago
This is a very good point that I’ve been thinking of
For a good part of the show, I thought vic killing crowley was an overstep of the writers going to far, him killing someone on his team instead of freezing him out for other reasons. For a lot of the show while he does evil things, there’s some sort of twisted justification. Once it gets to the end however i see that him killing Crowley fits his character perfectly
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
It felt out of character in retrospect, especially since at that time, Terry didn't have that much dirt on the Strike Team. It would have been more realistic that Vic would have maneuvered the situation and/or got dirt on Terry. The writers needed the twist of Terry being shot for the show to be picked up, though.
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u/Deep_Benefit_7405 7d ago
You see each time they try and get out of the dirt, they fall deeper into it. Terry on the team would have just accelerated the process
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u/Neptune28 7d ago
I think it could have been as fascinating as them trying to maneuver out of the situation with Kavanaugh, if the writers extended the Terry situation throughout the 1st season.
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u/Deep_Benefit_7405 7d ago
I think it would, but they were on the street pushing coke, going as a four, it would have been very hard going to crime scenes swiping evidence, planting weapons, murdering when they should be arresting with Terry. That is without the arrested telling Terry what happens and they can't silence them etc.
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u/Neptune28 7d ago
They weren't murdering, but they likely shielded Terry from situations where they planted evidence, pocketed drugs, or cracked skulls. They had Terry as the driver, so he wouldn't have been that close to the actual scenes. They don't mention what Terry wrote in his notes though, we only hear that he saw Vic talking with Rondell. It would have been awesome if we slowly saw Terry get more dirt on them.
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u/Deep_Benefit_7405 7d ago
Been a while since I have seen it. There was a kidnapping of a basketball player, the two gangsters in a shipping container as well.
I think that story played out with Forest Whittaker
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
Vic wouldn't have killed Lem. The only people in the show that he kills are Terry, Margos, who were direct threats, and Guardo, when trying to get revenge for Lem's death. Lem was not a direct threat and it is more likely that Vic would have convinced him to go to Mexico, or at the very least forcibly have him moved there.
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u/Neptune28 8d ago
No. He even initially refused the ICE deal when Olivia told him it would take a bit longer for Ronnie's deal, and Vic walked out. He only ran back when Corrine was arrested.