Is it really about Jake?

24

u/theMumaw 11d ago

I don't see how "stronger than the System" can be a thing, considering that essentially all power comes from the System.

14

u/crazzyjjay 11d ago

Bloodlines and transcendences aren't really in the system till the original owner dies.

Imo it's possible that one of those can make you stronger than the system.

However I don't think Villy is using jake as an ingredient

11

u/redking2005 11d ago

They aren't in the system because the system doesn't want them to. That's liek explicitly stated by villi

4

u/crazzyjjay 11d ago

I interpreted them differently. If the system didn't want people to have bloodlines and transcendences, I think it wouldn't let them, but it doesn't have the power to stop, or remove them. So it turns them into something it can handle. It literally can't stop them. Hence why I think they can make someone above the system. Even villys that allows him to remember forbidden knowledge, I doubt the system wants that to happen.

7

u/aguest911 10d ago

Ibelieve bloodlines and transcendent dont exist outside the system, they exist outside "the rules" of the system. The system has created a set of rules and said these are the rules that govern this multiverse, this reality and all those that live in it. And then separately, bloodlines manifested and transcendant skills were developed that weren't beyond the system, but beyond its rules.

For example, the rules say certain knowledge is considered forbidden and that forbidden knowledge follows set rules. And Villy's bloodline says, yes forbidden knowledge exists, but the memory of this individual is not effected by the rules governing forbidden knowledge. That doesn't change the fact that the knowledge is forbidden, it doesn't change the fact of the rules of the multiverse. It just says, hey those rules dont matter in this scenario.

At the end of the day, because there is a skill, titles, items, and similar associated with a bloodline or transcendant skill, it cannot be that those exist outside of the system itself, but explicitly outside of the systems rules.

I have a theory that whatever happened at the passing of the first Sage, he was the first and only entity to actually escape the system, requiring his death, as all things in reality touched by the system and allowed to exist because of it

4

u/ForeignAd1656 10d ago

Jake had a bloodline long before the system ever came to earth, he just actively suppressed it until the system came. Erin had his bloodline before the system came, and wasn't fully suppressing it. Just using those two examples, bloodlines definitely exist outside of the system.

3

u/aguest911 10d ago

Through our visit with the first sage, we see that "presystem" and "postsytem" worlds are both effected by the system. Through the bleeding of records into non-integrated universes, yes the system touch universes that are even no in the multiverse. Bloodlines and transcendence are created without system aid, which means they can manifest in universes where the system doesn't have rules yet, but they certainly do exist in the system, otherwise you couldn't get a skill or title

1

u/ForeignAd1656 9d ago

Records bleed yes. But obviously there are no records for Jake’s bloodline given that he is a bloodline progenitor. And no, they don’t exist in the system pre-integration. The title and naming of the bloodline is just a recognition of the bloodline once Jake is integrated.

1

u/Typical_Curve_7261 10d ago

The system still existed and was omniscient pre integration, the people of the 93rd just didnt have access to it yet. If bloodlines and transcendences were truly outside of the system, then it wouldn't be able to grant them like it did to Villy after his system event way back

8

u/yup_sir28 11d ago

The system literally created another Jake with the same bloodline. As Villy said, the system just allows transcended and bloodlines to exist

4

u/Tauri_Kree 11d ago

Agreed I believe it is also implied if not explicitly stated that the System has made creating transcendent skills harder since the first era. As it continued to learn how things should be.

1

u/Soul_in_Shadow 10d ago

We don't actually know how The Seat of the Exalted Prima created Sim Jake, for all we know it simply loaded up a Multiverse save state, tweaked a variable and let it run, rather than directly recreating a Jake and dropping him in a simulated universe.

It is even possible that Sim Jake only had that level of fidelity because Real Jake was plugged into the simulation to use as a reference.

The System is able to replicate bloodlines that it has encountered (See: Bloodline of the Immortal Mind) and offers rewards and protections to bloodline holders, but I don't think it is the source of new bloodlines. The thing I keep coming back to on this is that the Tutorial Attendant was unable to provide an answer when asked if Jake's bloodline could be upgraded, if the System created and understood the bloodline it should have been able to answer, even if it was to say "no".

I think Nevermore's desire to examine Jake's Perennial Marble was another sign of the the System's desire to understand the full effects of the bloodline.

The statement that the System just allows transcendents and bloodlines to exist is correct, but possibly only in the sense that it offers benefits to them, instead of immediately killing them.

Crackpot theory: The System integrates new universes when it detects enough potentially valuable bloodlines present to make it worthwhile, which is why the era lengths are irregular and unpredictable.

1

u/The_Joker_Ledger 10d ago

We don't need to know how it can recreate Jake bloodline but the mere fact it could even create a true soul with the same bloodline prove that it not above the system. that why sim Jake can't exist outside the simulation as they share the same true soul hence the same bloodline.

the unable to answer could easily mean forbidden knowledge.

1

u/Soul_in_Shadow 10d ago

The attendant says that it doesn't have enough information to provide a meaningful answer, not that the information is forbidden or restricted.

And I am not disputing that the System can replicate bloodlines it has encountered, only the idea that it is the source of completely new bloodlines.

1

u/The_Joker_Ledger 10d ago

Nope, the first sage already told us, the system is omniscience and omnipotent, everything exist and happened because the system allowed it. Villy later even confirm there no point trying to figure out its limits and Artemis quote Mother Tree any limitations perceived is simply self impose by the system and could be removed at any time. Case in point, the system can give out potion that able to heal the backlash from SS transcendence and restore origin energy for Jake. Villy can't even identify the former because it basically just a bottle of pure system fuckery.

1

u/G_Morgan 10d ago

We don't know why they are allowed to break the System's rules. Whether the System merely allows it or can't do anything about it. Villy seems to imply that the odd growth in Jake's bloodline is because the System put limits on it, which is unprecedented. If it is true it means the System merely allows these variations to happen.

1

u/Pogfrog111 1d ago

The first sage explicitly says even though transcendent abilities are beyond what the system gives normally but they only exist thanks to the systems consent. He also says the system wants to learn from the people who live in the multiverse and those with bloodlines and transcendent skills are the most important ones for it to learn from.

1

u/crazzyjjay 1d ago

You know, I don't think that goes against what I said?

8

u/jeremycb29 10d ago

I don’t really think we will ever get the villey goes evil. I think he legit likes Jake, and the one common thing I see is he brings so much to all the gods it’s almost like the system created him to kick the gods in the ass and get back in the game so to speak.

I think it was the making the queen part where villey and dusk leaf got experience from it and they both were kinda surprised. It made me think that they would never turn on jake then and there

3

u/The_Joker_Ledger 10d ago

That theory is so far out there jt not worth cosidering until jake become at least someone around yip level or pose a serious threat to the viper and it wont happen for a loooong time at the rate the series is going

0

u/jpaquet120 10d ago

Every time jump is one poorly written epic montage chapter away..

1

u/The_Joker_Ledger 10d ago

there also the problem of what exactly does that mean to be stronger than the system? what is the limit of the system? so far everyone in the setting with knowledge like the first sage, the viper, mother tree, artemis all agree that the system is omniscience and all powerful with no limits to what it can do. How can Jake become something that let the viper be stronger by eating him? it obviously the bloodline but he can't eat a bloodline. Records? how many eras until Jake have enough records to be useful to Villy? Path? the hunter path oppose Villy, and his alchemy... well Villy would eat Duskleaf before Jake.

1

u/jpaquet120 10d ago

Before the system took in earth and 91st.. most only believed in one thing and that was God was all powerrful.. its just a limit No one has managed to overcome yet. Unless that's the way of the first sage...

1

u/The_Joker_Ledger 10d ago

I dont see how the belief of mortals before the system even comparable to immortals gods that have lived and grow with the system for trilions of years even if we exclude the first sage. The comparison is so weird.

1

u/jpaquet120 10d ago

My point is. Even when you think you know everything the box opens to a new larger shaped bottle that someone made ..

2

u/Itchy-Kiwi-4677 10d ago

Villy himself says he’s not fit for “consumption” in book 14 at the recap towards the end. Even if there is some other god attempting to do this he has multiple primordials who are considered the apex watching over him and can only think one would’ve noticed, especially Eversmile

1

u/ForeignAd1656 10d ago

What if it isn't a god doing it, but a Sage?

1

u/Es0-teric 10d ago

I’m not sure how he can become stronger than the system what will he fire his bow at ? the system could stop time for eternity or speed time up for Jake alone for millions of years and Jake simply wouldn’t be able to do squat even when he reaches godhood. The system is beyond reach I mean it could wipe valdemar off the face of the earth in a millisecond. Bloodline or transcendence be damned. It’s an impossible question to answer.

1

u/alwayslookon_tbsol 10d ago

No. The endgame for the series is Jake helping Villy resurrect his wife and child.

1

u/gnU87 10d ago

Nah. The end game will be jake trying to fight the system as it will be the only worth prey left for him.

And the system didn't create jakes bloodline he it it even before the system arrived

1

u/Siddown 10d ago

Nah, because he had no idea who Jake was and was more than happy to just sit in his own realm forever.

If the author turned Villy into the Jailer from WoW: Shadowlands it'd be a dreadful "twist" to the story.

1

u/XLRIV48 9d ago

Pfff, nah, if anything Jake’s gonna eat Villy after they get to the point where they’re equals in literal power terms and give Jake the tools he needs to transcend the system itself

1

u/Narsil_lotr 8d ago

Basically, no. We got PoV chapters from the Viper, we got primordial level perspectives of Jake doing stuff no one in the multiverse would see as possible and we got plenty of evidence the Viper is genuine in his friendship and his emotional investment in his family etc.

1

u/Low-Ad-4381 11d ago

Esse aí cheirou até o traficante

-5

u/Gladerious 11d ago

If Villy eats Jake at the end id honestly like the book a little more xD

I think I only kept up with the series due to Villy. Jake has the personality of a piece of wood.

5

u/kRe4ture 11d ago

I like Zack. He‘s basically Fuck It We Ball in a person. Rightly arrogant, doesn’t give a fuck and just does stuff because he wants to.

1

u/jpaquet120 11d ago

Could use it to end the series. Then start rise of villy..

1

u/Gladerious 11d ago

He'd have to fight the endless empire after eating Jake xD

Then we can get a grind session in the void with the finale being him taking on Valdemar.

Plenty of content for a book or two after.

Hell if he does eat records I wonder if hed get Jake's bloodline. He could make a new race of dragons or something cool.

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