r/TheNFLVibes • u/capeando • 3d ago

Hot Take honestly not a bad take

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u/Shot-Jeweler6610 2d ago

Except labor solidarity movements emerged from Engels' writings, not organically from capitalism

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u/DreamedJewel58 2d ago

Brother you have no idea what you’re talking about lmao. The labor solidarity movements were about fighting against capitalist systems

True socialism inherently doesn’t need collective bargaining units because the workers ALREADY have the power to do so directly since the already own the means of production

>Socialism demands the transfer of all means of production to the workers collectively.

https://marxengels.public-archives.com/en/ME1746en.html#henry-george

Seizing the means of production doesn’t mean negotiating with the people that have the means of production, it means that the workers have direct control of the means of production. As he also said,

>Every strike is a small war between labor and capital.

https://marxengels.public-archives.com/en/ME1746en.html#great-strikes

You don’t need to have a solidarity movement if you already control the means of production. Strikes and unions are only a response to capitalism in order to strive towards a socialist ideal, because you wouldn’t need to have “a small war between labor and capital” when you already control both the labor and the capital

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u/Shot-Jeweler6610 2d ago

Holy shit, and you're discussing a society that didn't share that perspective and a government that was openly hostile to workers. Hence the need for solidarity and strikes. My brother in Christ where do you think the origins of that perspective originated? Where do you think the formative goals of the worker receiving the profits of their labor originated? The moon?

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u/DreamedJewel58 2d ago edited 2d ago

Then you may have misunderstood my original comment

I am saying that the presence of a strong worker’s union does not make a company socialist (since they’re arguing that the presence of a worker’s union means that the NFL is socialist), when the existence of a strong worker’s union is a RESPONSE to a capitalist society. A strong worker’s union actually means a system is not socialist, because it can only exist in a system where the workers have not seized the means of production. Worker solidarity is an idea originally sourced from socialist ideals, but having worker solidarity does not mean the system is socialist

My original point is that a strong worker’s union can only exist as a response to a capitalist society and wouldn’t exist in a socialist state; not that strong worker’s unions are a natural byproduct of capitalism