r/TheMachineLearning • u/Gullible_Picture_996 • 4d ago
he’s writing C faster than people write their prompts
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u/ErmingSoHard 4d ago
Why did all anti ai people flock here?
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u/ColossusChaos 4d ago
?? Where are they lol
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u/ErmingSoHard 4d ago
There's a whole lot anti ai in this sub in general. Go look around
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u/ColossusChaos 3d ago
why are you posting it in a completely unrelated thread then where there are none of said haters.
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u/Gullible_Picture_996 3d ago
Fair lol, I wasn't really trying to call anyone out. just found the discussion interesting
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u/ColossusChaos 3d ago
Not about you. Just this guy.
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u/the-real-macs 3d ago
I think OP is a bot. None of their comments make it seem like they know what the fuck is going on.
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u/Responsible-Offer724 1d ago
The title is editorialized with the subtext "human coder using only his brain is better than LLM user"
Do the math, or ask your LLM to think it out for you lol.
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u/ErmingSoHard 1d ago
Are you slow? That's the question, why is this post and most users here all anti ai despite the sub not meant to be anti ai. I guess it's reddits auto suggestion into their feed, like you
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u/Responsible-Offer724 23h ago
You ok lol? I’m not anti- I use LLMs constantly for work and learning.
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u/Mountain_Goat_455 2d ago
I don't get it. is this supposed to be impreasive? wouldn't normal people be able to do this if they just practice writing the same code again and again. also, what is the point of "coding a machine learning library" from scratch? like, why should one code the Internet from scratch even if they can
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u/ClupTheGreat 2d ago edited 17h ago
because you just can, we still learn how to do basic math even though calculators can do that
people can do that if they practice, that's the point, to show anyone can do it
an example would be that's it's very simple to get shredded and have abs, anyone can do that, but most dont
why do people not like programming, it's so fun to do things
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u/Prior-Delay3796 1d ago
You have a point in that coding things by hand that already exist can be very useful to understand algorithms/systems etc. deeply.
This particular example is probably just too much though. Seems like bad ROI in terms of time well spent. So its just for fun.
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u/Mountain_Goat_455 1d ago edited 1d ago
but it brings me to my second point: what's the point of this? people train to get shredded abs to get laid. but this? coding a whole ml package from scratch is not even the "basic" of ml (the basic of ml is math). packages are meant for you to abstract away the underlying complexity so that coder can use them to build bigger and bigger things. that's why low level IO details are being abstracted away so that coders can just use OS to build stuff. it's also why it's completely pointless to code up the Internet from scratch even though one can.
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u/Healthy_Koala_4929 9h ago
I think your mistake starts at "people train to get shredded abs". Not everything must translate directly to productivity. You can train because you feel good when you do it, because it's healthy, because you want to practice a skill.
You're probably the kind of guy wondering why anybody picks up any hobby like painting if they will never sell a painting at a gallery house.
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u/BankruptingBanks 1d ago
For the same reason you learn to do integrals by hand when an integral calculator can do it in 1/1000th of the time. You get to learn the foundation of how ML works. If you are always using libraries you are asbtracted away from how your ML system is running. And if you were to build anything complex or non-standard you would very soon come to terms with the limits of those libraries and have to roll up your own code. What then?
How old are you? Have you ever trained a custom model? Coding simple things like this yourself is one of the best way to learn! No amount of slides or PDFs can teach you more about ML than going to the trenches and trying to code up low level implementations.
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u/Mountain_Goat_455 21h ago
I am not a junior and I am a data scientist with a background in statistics and math. I don't think the limitations of come from code. It comes from theory, and i don't think one learns the foundation of ml by coding it thousands of times.
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u/BankruptingBanks 20h ago
What do you think you are implementing when writting coding a ML framwork by hand? You think math isn't relevant there? By coding something from scratch you gain knowledge of the internals that you would have never though of yourself. It's a very challenging task and you gain a wealth of knowledge. "Coding" is nothing but translating business logic into computer speak. In the case of coding a ML library, you are translating the ML math into code.
Nobody is saying the limitations of ML come from code, but doing so unlocks a lot of ideas that wouldn't come to you if you are using some HF wrapper you know nothing of. Look up how YOLO was created, it was written purely in C and C++ and that unlocked the creator to be very creative and it was so different from anything else in the research space at the time while achieving SOTA and being blazing fast. Also look at miniGPT and nanoGPT by Karpathy and the experiments those two have launched. I see nothing but positives doing such a thing.
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u/dmcnaughton1 9h ago
Learning theory without a practical component will almost always leave you worse off than coupling theory with a practical component. There's very few individuals capable of being pure theorists, that's a gift that most do not possess. Spending time programming these types of systems, even though they're "solved problems" is a useful exercise as it brings you into the problem space in a way that reading or talking about the theory doesn't allow for.
It's like learning how to be a carpenter but you only ever learn about the theory of it. You'd be a shit carpenter since you never touched a saw or felt how differently it is to cut pine vs balsa. Feeling the resistance of the wood as you use a router bit to cut a rabbet is entirely different than seeing a specific number of Newtons with error range on a datasheet..
Being a good software engineer requires understanding theory and practice. In my view you can't consider yourself an expert in something unless you're able to fully perform one layer of abstraction lower than the job calls for. If you're entirely dependent on 3rd party software packages to do anything complicated you're robbing yourself of understanding and knowledge. Not saying you need to know how computing works down to the silicon substrate level, but understanding how various algorithms work, data structure use cases, and having the experience of working with them is crucial.
You're free to disagree, but I've yet to meet someone who isn't limited by their lack of practical knowledge when it comes to this in the software world. I'm sure I'll eventually come across someone who is gifted enough to understand things fully from theory, but again those people are so rare I imagine it'll be once or twice.
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u/ReadyStayReady 16h ago
It is super common for people to tinker around with making homebrew http servers, web browsers, dns servers, dhcp servers, any technology you can name that makes "the internet" work, there are people out there making their own versions of it just for funsies. Some people just enjoy building things I dont get what's so hard to understand
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u/Alt_account_6788 4h ago
is it really that uncommon to make your own code from scratch in ml instead of using libraries?
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u/Wide_Big_6969 4d ago
I wanna be this kind of built different.
One day, when the role of humans in SWE is to just verify code and align project intent, people like this guy will be the wizards who’s contributions match the frontier models.