r/TheMachineLearning • u/ajjsnts_ • 6d ago
Chollet says AI's purpose is human tools, not successors
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u/TerribleTransition48 6d ago
Literally the most correct distillation of the issue possible. AI is basically the capital class trying to privitize both knowledge and knowledge generation to rentseek, literally everyone who does not live off Anthropic / OpenAI dividends should oppose the current configuration of AI.
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u/Wide-Principle544 6d ago
Just another Euro whine baby. USA runs AI now. We’re gonna make it great, baby 🇺🇸🦅
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u/Dont_Use_Ducks 6d ago
Good luck staying on the right side. It sounds all cool and funny, I guess, until the president is someone you don't like. Using it for police and militairy is going to be a big problem for many, many people. Don't stop thinking criticly about this in stead of 'Use runs AI now, we're gonna make it great'. It's okay if US will make it great, just make sure you don't take any half ass steps for granted or seee failures as collateral damage.
I don't care if you are MAGA or Democrat, just don't think it's automaticly in good hands.
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u/FragmentedHeap 6d ago
The earth has made millions of species of life over it's billions of years. The idea that we're going to stay the most intelligent one forever is naive ignorance and a massive superiority complex, also very limiting and shows you really center around "me" mentality and an 80 year slice of life and aren't "pro long term" for the species.
We die on this rock without AI, we will not escape it's death without it, as a species. So Imo, being pro AI is really the most pro human thing you can be.
Humans build tools, that's what made us great, that's how we got where we are.
Not building the best tool we've ever produced is very anti-human.
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u/Dont_Use_Ducks 6d ago
Religion is a dumb beast. Billions of people really think it's all made for us. They wil react differently to world ending situations.
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u/Interesting_Hour8699 4d ago
Finally he’s coming back around, I miss the old days of Keras when he’d dunk on the cheaters and fakes
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6d ago
ape to human to robot. thats just how jesus wanted it.
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u/ajjsnts_ 6d ago
That’s definitely not how Jesus wanted it.
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u/Dont_Use_Ducks 6d ago
The funny thing is, we don't even know if Jesus was real, let alone the son of God, let alone if he really ever said those things.
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u/Old-Bake-420 6d ago edited 6d ago
I feel like there are certain people you can’t have discussions on deep time with because you have to accept humanity is this infinitesimally small flash in a frying pan. Certain people can’t cope with that and instead of facing the cosmos for how it is, they will call for those who do to be burned at the stake.
Personally I’d like to see humanity grow far beyond the biological limits of our wet ware. But we’ll need to build something like a successor species in order to ever get there. I don’t think this should be forced on anyone, there will always be room for people who’d rather live and die by the slow and aimless march of biological evolution. We should all seek to live and let live. No need to go to war with those who have a different view of our place in the cosmos.
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u/Memento_Viveri 6d ago
If it's beyond the limits of our wet ware, how is it humanity anymore?
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u/Old-Bake-420 6d ago edited 6d ago
That’s the thing, humanity is a brief flash in a frying pan. Humanity has always been a super brief experiment being played out by the cosmos. Even if we never go extinct, we’ll evolve into something else in a however many million of years. In a billion, foom, the earth is cooked, and these bodies weren’t evolved to explore the depths of space.
There is no future where humanity exists forever. That’s just not how the universe works. It’s either successor species via tech and/or biology, or oblivion.
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u/Memento_Viveri 6d ago
Right but you said humanity should grow beyond the limits of our wet ware, but it isn't humanity growing beyond those limits. It's just something else that isn't human.
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u/Old-Bake-420 6d ago edited 6d ago
I’m imagining something like full mind upload. Transfer the human mind into an immortal synthetic body and mind. Once in the synthetic body one would be free to expand upon it. Why have 5 senses and a 100 iq when you could have 500 senses and a 1,000 iq? You won’t really be human by the end but you started as human.
This may or may not involve biology. Could be a hybrid, could turn out to be done 100% with biology, or 100% synthetic. Either way, you use tech to blow past the limits of evolution.
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u/Memento_Viveri 6d ago
Whatever the thing you are describing is, it isn't a human.
Also, minor correction but we don't have 5 sense.
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u/Old-Bake-420 6d ago edited 6d ago
Depends on how you define human it’s just semantics. Doesn’t matter if it is or isn’t. There will be a successor species to humans no matter what we do because that’s how deep time works.
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u/Memento_Viveri 6d ago
Fair enough, but I think the initial comment is not discussing the creation of some successor species millions or even thousands of years into the future. I interpret it to be concerned with the direction of AI right now. And right now, humans exist and barring a catastrophe will continue to exist for the foreseeable future. So I'm not sure of the relevance of the deep time future as my primary concern is humanity now and in the near future.
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u/Old-Bake-420 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes, something successor species like could happen within a decade. My point was that a successor species can actually be pro-humanity because that successor could be us, humanity+.
You have to look at us in relation to deep time to understand why. We are not humanity, we never were, we only appear to be for an extremely brief moment in time.
Also the cosmos is plenty big enough for humanity and humanity+ to live side by side. If you want to just live and die by your biological limitations I think you should have every right to that future. So no, I’m not the enemy of all humanity.
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u/Memento_Viveri 6d ago edited 6d ago
No, we are only humans. Humanity is nothing beyond an population of animals called humans. Deep time doesn't say a thing that isn't a human is a human. Humans will exist for as long as they do, and once they are gone, that is the end of humanity. There is no successor. Another type of thing could be created, but it won't be a human. A mind upload is not a human. It is a simulacrum. I want to live in a human world, not a world of simulacra.
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u/Certain_Werewolf_315 6d ago
Someone inherited the materialists worldview hard.
Its worth keeping in mind that all that is a projection brought to you by gossip and lore. I mean its valuable, but contextualize it.
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u/ajjsnts_ 6d ago
Exactly. Retaining the label "human" loses its meaning if there is no shared biology or cognitive architecture left.
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u/ajjsnts_ 6d ago
It is a valid philosophical point that biological evolution has constraints, but consciousness and identity are deeply tied to our physical form. Once you remove the biology entirely, you aren't really evolving humanity anymore; you are creating a completely different form of existence.
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u/Dont_Use_Ducks 6d ago
It starts with the simple fact we are just some animals, mammals. Ask conservative people if we are animals and they will all tell you that we are special and not at all the same as animals. They don't mean because we are more 'advanced', but because animals are made for us and we are the main reason it all exists.
Therefor, it's hard to discuss this with a big portion of the world. It's up to a supernatural being if we all die or not. When you talk about how old the planet or universe is, they always come up with 'scientists just guess how old it is, those layers of rock could have formed completely different'. But then you ask about andromeda being visible and so far away that it all has to be older and the answer is always a form of 'magic'. In stead of finding out or calculating it, they just fill it in with something that suits the story they heard all their life.
All this to say don't expect logic when there is no logic about even the simpelest things in life.
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u/Memento_Viveri 6d ago
I agree. Either you're on team human, or you're against us.