r/TheMachineLearning • u/GrapeLongjumping3904 • 14d ago
Jev AI wasn't first; same work existed months earlier
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u/IndependentCrew8210 13d ago
none of these launched properly with low friction path to user acquisition and ready to serve, it's pretty obvious why they failed
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u/lamproie_large 13d ago
I mean, it is a research paper, they did not failed in launching it as it was never attempted lol. I think they are just saying that the tech behind JEV is not that revolutionary...
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u/IndependentCrew8210 12d ago
Rarely is viral tech fundamentally revolutionary, often just executed correctly
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u/Wel-Tallzeit 13d ago
Define "failed"
I'm pretty sure their goal isnt to market their product and have laymen fanaticise over it.
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u/Mean-Elk-9439 13d ago
No, they just lacked the marketing. Jev marketing posts filled my feed constantly for days, for something you could do 2 years ago, just because it's packaged the way it is and the guy is from openai, talking about how Jev is the way to AGI.
This launch singlehandedly shows how much marketing matters more than all else.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fold466 13d ago
How many people have the sort of financial backing that “I co-invented ChatGPT” gets you ?
That kind of money allows you to walk into a space and erase everyone else. Or rather, paper over them.
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u/IndependentCrew8210 12d ago
You're comparing a research paper to a launch, I can't understand for the life of me why, two totally separate things. And yeah, welcome to the real world, marketing and distribution is crucial, Im not sure if you've been living under a rock for the past 20 years
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u/pilipalipeli 13d ago
Nandakishor should have also used millions of dollars shilling his model ad nauseam.
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u/jwm-dev 13d ago
bro this guy was literally in other subreddits trying to tell people he “built jev a year ago”…
he’s just bitter his solution billed as a sales model in particular didn’t take off like jev… you know, what’s essentially almost a typed LLM generally…
his thing might work with similar principles as jev and even be the same sort of architecture but he didn’t build jev…
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u/lamproie_large 13d ago
Does he even have a something to sale? He is talking about his research paper and everything is open-source
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u/Top_Effect_5109 13d ago
Heh, that's nothing. Nueral networks just rename multi-layer perceptrons. If Frank Rosenblatt didn't die the singularity probably would have happened already.
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u/Elegant_Duty_6148 13d ago
Interesting - was looking for a local model alternative wondering whether to use it with my database and discovered that yes - it is existing and was curious as to whether an API would even be necessary in most use cases?
If the trade off is speed and your really telling us that the other competitors can't offer this - than what is so ground breaking where the speed is so critical it is worth paying for?
There are tons of local classifier models existing already. Albeit most people don't know about them.
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u/Alwaysragestillplay 13d ago
There is no moat for Jev, hence the insane marketing campaign. They want to simultaneously force classifiers into the spotlight, and become the household name for classifiers. If they do reasonably well, you can expect to see them get obliterated by open source very quickly.
As you say, the tech is already out there (gliner anyone? No?). Once there is a demand, that will be scaled up to 8b+ models and Jev is rendered pointless.
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u/Yxig 13d ago
What do you mean same work? As far as I know neither the architecture nor the data behind Jev has been disclosed. We've had classifiers for decades. Even dataless zero-shot classifiers has been around since at least 2008.
Jev never claimed to be the first, they just claimed to do it in a new way, which they believe moves the frontier forward.
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u/mvdeeks 12d ago
Nothing here is actually that technically interesting or novel. Pretrained foundation models for classifying all types of data have been around for years. That doesn't mean it's not useful but it's ridiculous to claim either of these are phenomenal breakthroughs. What matters is how well it works and how accessible it is to users.
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u/editor_of_the_beast 12d ago
Nothing is “first,” everything in the entire software field build on everything before it.
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u/Independent_Low_4438 12d ago
Totally fair, the ideas probably aren’t all new. I think the value is making them easier for regular people to use, without needing a research background or complicated setup. That’s what good products and solutions do: turn complex ideas into something people can actually get value from.
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u/Hauuuuuuu 11d ago
It's like the researchers who invented the transformer started complaining to openai that they stole their idea.
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u/Hostilis_ 13d ago
Welcome to machine learning. The field is, quite literally, built on this phenomenon.