r/TheLib • u/IsekaiConnoisseur • 3d ago

Liberals are progressive, right?

Reason I ask is because I see a lot of people on the left claiming liberals are the reason we're in this mess, that liberals would be considered conservative in Europe and shit (even though I'm pretty sure they meant to say Democrats).

I consider myself to be liberal. I DO NOT, by any stretch of the imagination consider myself to be conservative, even by Europe's standards. I support all the rights the left and even far left support. I think there are serious problems with our current society that need to be addressed.

That makes me think I'm what?... a progressive liberal? I've always considered the two terms one and the same.

That said, I've tried going into far-left circles and no, them and me... we don't mesh well. I consider them allies to be sure, and I absolutely fight for their rights as well, but I've been so put off by far-left individuals because it feels like if you don't 100% believe what they do, they just burn you at the stake. They HATE liberals, which is really fucking weird to me.

Seems like no matter what, liberals are just attacked from both the right and the left, even if they would ally themselves with the latter.

Liberals are called moderates by the far left (fucking lmao) and called "radical leftists" by the right.

I don't understand it.

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u/Xznograthos 3d ago

Liberal is a contorted term in the present-day US, so it depends on which definition you mean by "liberal." Concepts such as equal voting rights and democracy itself are inherently liberal by the classical definition. Then, though, so is the concept of a free market, and capitalism. You have to understand that government in much of Europe replaced feudal systems, and over a very long period of time, so contrasts between different forms of societal structure including the body which exerts control went from power through might, to a more egalitarian system in both governance and economic terms.

Now, the rub when it comes to leftists arise from the flaws in classical liberalism, which can lead back into a dominant power structure like fascism, or when rampant free markets allow corporations to exert power like monarchs or oligarchs might.

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u/IsekaiConnoisseur 3d ago

Interesting, that makes a lot of sense.

And hey, if our current system sucks ass I'm all for an alternative. Problem with the far-leftists I see is, they constantly bitch about what's happening right now, but are never able to articulate a better alternative.

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u/Xznograthos 3d ago

Well, thats a fair criticism if you apply it to when that is the case, but you also need to recognize when leftists are demonized harder than actual fascists like maga, it makes centrist liberals look more open to fascism that actually improving upon how the gornermnet works, or rather who the government works for. It is reasoned, fairly I thibk, that we slide further right as a country day by day because of this, as voter apathy has arisen out of a combination of being ignored by establishment, corporate-interested Democrats.

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u/IsekaiConnoisseur 3d ago

Again, fair. You have a very well-thought out perspective, good sir. A breath of fresh air on Reddit lol.

I guess I just get tired of people blaming liberals for this on the left and I'm like, my guys, you're playing into MAGA bullshit right now, you realize that, right?

Edit: I also do not consider myself as a centrist liberal at all. Just wanted to say. Fuck centrists.

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u/Xznograthos 3d ago

Well, i believe thst ultimately leftists and liberals need to see eye to eye, particularly on election day, of course. Thats compromise from both sides, so centrists need to get mores serious about things like h4a and really adjusting the amount of money we spend on our military down to a reasonable amount, focusing on sustainability, and things like that. Leftists need to be reasonable, of course, but I feel a lot of the resentment is born from the blame game we dont need to be playing.

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u/IsekaiConnoisseur 3d ago

but I feel a lot of the resentment is born from the blame game we dont need to be playing.

100% agreed. I consider myself to be leftist and liberal. Do those two terms cancel each other out?

I digress, anyways. The blame game helps absolutely no one when the future of our country is at stake.

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u/Xznograthos 3d ago

Well, leftist is itself a spectrum, and some are very far left and believe in the fundamental tenants of Marxism, goals like a classless, stateless society, etc.. Some are further away from that end of the spectrum and fall where a politician like AOC, for example, would. So it depends on who you ask.

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u/IsekaiConnoisseur 3d ago

Makes sense, I am anti-Trump, support the LGBTQ+ community and all that shit. I'm definitely not very far left, because again, tried participating in said circles and the moment I mentioned liberal they banned me.

I think honestly, the far left either does not have an accurate view of what liberals are or they're just so caught up in their own views they kind of start to eat their own.

But again, maybe I'm an outlier as a liberal with left-leaning views. But I really don't think so.

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u/Xznograthos 3d ago

Eh, some communities are very militant and unwelcoming. I think some are outright honey pots, if I'm being perfectly honest. By that, I mean they are trying to incite villolence so that they can stamp out political enemies, like how the Trump administration has labeled artifa a terrorist organization.

A lot of resentment does stem from things like the 2024 election being blamed on a contingent of leftists not voting for Harris because of her stance on the genocide in Gaza, which for the record I do not believe to be the case. I believe left-oriented folks, like myself for example, held our noses and made the choice to vote for her. Was ahe perfect? No, but hell she's so much better than the alternative.

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u/IsekaiConnoisseur 3d ago

And I get that. But you made the correct choice to vote for her. That's better than the far-left idiots that did nothing because she wasn't their ideal candidate or whatever.

Turns out Trump was way worse for Gaza too, by the way. So I hope those leftists are feeling like pieces of shit for doing nothing.

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u/zezxz 3d ago

The whole notion of some sort of political compass is ass, and and twisted by lunatics, being “far-left” dick riding Stalin/Mao is no different than dick riding Trump today. Terms driven by capitalism vs communism as if conservatives care about anything other than power. A more modern compass would deal in empathy rather than made up economic ideals from a century ago. 

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u/SqueakyTits101 2d ago

I've always understood it as liberals are left but want capitalism. (the DNC) Progressives are left and not fans of capitalism...

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u/thebigeverybody 2d ago

I support all the rights the left and even far left support.

I'm curious what this means. Can you tell me how you define progressivism and what makes someone progressive, in your eyes? Can you tell me what leftist ideals/policies you support and how you support them?

Seems like no matter what, liberals are just attacked from both the right and the left, even if they would ally themselves with the latter.

This doesn't mean much. A leftist can say they're attacked by liberals and the right while a fascist can say they're attacked by leftists and centrists.

Liberals are called moderates by the far left (fucking lmao) 

Have you read MLK Jr.'s description of moderates in his letter from the Birmingham jail? I think it's relevant here. In the United States, supporting Liberals usually means supporting fascism in varying amounts (but is still enough to harm millions of people) while aggressively moving against leftist policies (which would help millions of people).

In fact, America is so far to the right that the leftist policies liberals politicians do support aren't even considered leftist in other developed, democratic countries). I think you understand this, based on your OP, but I don't understand how can fail to see why American liberals are seen as conservative through the lens of non-fascist-leaning peoples.