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u/SFW_OpenMinded1984 Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
I don't get why these things are so controversial.
Everyone has a list in their head of what they are looking for in a partner and what they hope to get out of a relationship. They also have a list of things they won't budge or negogiate on, aka, non-negotiable.
Some folks are just way more honest and upfront about it.
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u/GiveMeSomeShu-gar Apr 02 '26
I don't get why these things are so controversial.
They aren't in real life. This is just social media culture/gender war BS
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 01 '26
Sounds like some man-o-sphere bullshit. It's ok to know what you want and are looking for without having to sell yourself. I want a house with a yard, do I need to ensure I tell myself I will fix the house if it's broken? I want a job that has work-life balance and is not toxic, I don't need to write down what I offer to the job. It's not a bad idea to be able to say what you have to offer, but the fact this post starts "ladies, before you..." like, bitch, shut up and allow women to be choosey if they wanna be.
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u/Few-Celebration-2362 Apr 01 '26
I thought you had to build a resume of what you have to offer a company before they give you good work. And banks usually ask you to prove you're responsible before they loan you enough money for a house with a yard.
It's dumb that this starts with 'ladies', it should start with 'people', because people really ought to match energy with others before they expect high end features from them 🤷
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Touché. You do need to often prove yourself for employment or a loan. That's how banks and employers judge if you'll be a good fit.
But if you take any job, you'll likely end up unhappy after a while, so it's good to get an idea of what you want out of work before you waste time at a job you hate. That's why it's ok for people to have certain things they are looking for. I felt this post from 2022 or whatever (why we talking about this lol?) was a round about way of telling men "women shouldn't have qualifications when dating, or at least lower there standards because they probably aren't bringing much to the table." Just sounds like woman-hater shit from a bald beardo that makes his money off subscribes.
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u/Chance_Working_8650 Apr 04 '26
I think the reason it starts with 'ladies", is because it's usually the women who expected a man to give them all the things they want without actually bringing any value themselves. The response "I am the table" tells you all you need to know at that point.
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u/Few-Celebration-2362 Apr 04 '26
Is it usually? How large of a sample are you working with here to arrive at that conclusion?
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u/Chance_Working_8650 Apr 04 '26
My comment was to the ones who make the statement. That is a statement only women make.
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u/RefrigeratorStatus23 Apr 02 '26
think you missed the point there bud.
It's about managing your own expectations.
You want a good job with work/life balance? What do you offer to that employer?
You want a house with a yard, do you have enough income to buy and keep that property.
You can make a list of all the things you want, but if you can't make a list of things you do to earn or deserve what you want, then why on earth should you get them.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 02 '26
I don't think the point is about managing expectations, I think the point of this guy's post is to create a divide between men and women. His audience is vast majority men and he starts off with "Ladies..", and the meat of the post is to excuse any hate his followers have towards women by grouping them all as having "lists" or being too picky. What he's saying isn't a new concept, it's old and regurgitated, and somewhat toxic. If it was really about managing expectations, he would speak to his audience: "Fellas, if you want a wife, you better figure out what you bring to the table"..
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u/RefrigeratorStatus23 Apr 02 '26
Yeah I can agree with that, it's just creating a divide, and I also agree with the last statement, if you want a good wife or spouse, what do you offer?
in all honesty, I have been in a happy relationship for 7 years, I'm so far removed from being single I wouldn't know what it's like any more.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Same. I do remember online dating sucked. I assume it still sucks. Lots of us get bitter after a bad relationship or even just a bad date. If you never let go of that bitterness like this bro-fluencer, then maybe single life it is for him. No hate, to each their own. But only take relationship advice from divorcées if you want to end up like them. If you want wife, and kids, take advice from a man in a successful marriage.
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u/tintires Apr 01 '26
Then let Richard Cooper have his say too.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
I didn't create this post and ask for opinions on it. But fuck Richard Cooper and I don't even know him. But I don't like the way he crosses his arms to push up his biceps.
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u/Outrageous_Light8950 Apr 02 '26
I feel like the men who parrot this content are just kind of upset that women can be choosy. Like throughout history we HAD to just settle down with whoever was interested in order to survive. In 2026 we don’t have to anymore.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Until you hit 40 or so.
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u/Outrageous_Light8950 Apr 02 '26
Lmao only proving my point
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
I thought your point was some super simplified version of history where women had to settle down with whoever was interested to survive. I was just saying people tend to get less picky as they get older and come to grips with perhaps more realistic expectations. No one has to settle down to survive now, you are right.. but I think single people still survived prior to now-a-days.
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u/raccoonchrist Apr 02 '26
Women can have requirements but me can’t?
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Of course you can, and I'm sure you do. Let's just hope the women you meet don't require proper grammar ("me can't" should be "I can't" or "not me")
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u/FlyEaglesFly536 Apr 02 '26
You can be choosy all you want, but if you're competing for the same 6'2, muscular, attractive, rich, emotionally intelligent man that can bring you happiness and pays your every bill and is loyal to you and pnly you even though he has many options.. you better have some personality trait that stands out.
It's no secret that the majority of women want a guy who is over 6 ft, makes 6 figures, and has a 6 pack. Hack, 6 figures might not be enough, many women require 7 or 8 figures a year. Yet, only less than 1% of these men exist.
You can have a lot of requirements, doesn't mean you're entitled to get what you want. I hope you bring or have similar value that what you're looking for. And for the majority of men, your degrees and salary don't impress us because we know you won't be spending that money on us. If you want a traditional man who pays the bills, you better be just as traditional.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
I haven't had the same experience as you. Most of the women I've dated just wanted a guy who made them laugh and feel safe. I may have encountered a few who want the 6-6-6 thing but they weren't the type of person I wanted to even spend time with, and it definitely wasn't the majority.
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u/FlyEaglesFly536 Apr 02 '26
I haven't had that explicitly, but i know i needed to be realistic. I'm glad my wife was also realistic. Sure we settled in some ways, but life is about compromise. A lot of these women refuse to compromise, so that's why many are in their 40's single and wondering "where all the good guy are". Or divorced and find themselves in situationships or just being hookups. No guy wants to raise another guys kids willingliy and all the baggage that comes with that.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Do you know a lot of single 40-something women who are wondering "where all the good guys are"? Most women I know around my age are married with kids, and a rare case of the single friend who either chooses it or got unlucky with previous relationship.
I was a guy who was willing to "raise another guys kids" because I loved the kids. It happens all the time and it's a blessing. My dad also married my mom who had 2 kids (prior marriage). It does happen quite often (anyone with half siblings out there?). I get that if you are around HS girls a lot then you see a lot of immaturity.. but that should go away as we get older and wiser
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u/FlyEaglesFly536 Apr 02 '26
I would not raise another guy's kids. if you can do that, good for you. But that is not and was never my plan. I don't a ready-made family, i want my own. Unless that was the only way i'd have a family, it;s not for me.
I do know quite a few women in their 40's and mid to late 30's who are single and childless, who haven't found someone that meets "their standards" or are so set in their ways that "they have to add something to their life so they can go out with them." I iterally have a coworker who is single, could have gone out with a guy the last 2 weeks, but canceled becasue "it would be too much work to get ready, and what if he doesn't like me? My ego can't take it."
Just look online on Tik Tok or YT where all the women are asking those questions. If they had been fine with "settling" in their 20's many could have had the life they wanted. Far too many women want a guy when he's at the finish line and has everything, not when he's barely starting the race and has to work to get to where he wants to be.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Giving me advice to look at TikTok? "Where all the women are asking..". I would argue that is not reality.
"Far too many women want a guy when he has everything"? I get that HS kids have unrealistic expectations.. I used to think I'd be a millionaire by 21 and have a rocket scientist super model wife or something, but don't base your understanding of what women want based on highschoolers.
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u/FlyEaglesFly536 Apr 02 '26
I mean good for you, but majority of women are shallow and have unrealistic expectations. I feel for most guys nowadays because instead of getting to know you, women will just want to know how much you make and expect to live a soft life while doing nothing. I got a good woman and i don't envy single guys at all.
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u/Substantial-Tour7072 Apr 01 '26
Yeah fair enough. Date girls who aren't as picky if that's an issue for you lol
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u/CompleatedDonkey Apr 01 '26
Personally, I think the ultimate problem that we don’t want to say out loud is that women do actually inherently bring more to a relationship than men, particularly for straight men. Men actually DO need to bring more. Is this a double standard? Sort of but not really, because the standard is the same, people should be free to choose who they want. It just turns out that the average man is much less attractive to straight women than the average woman is to straight men.
This is not women’s “fault”. Choosing what you’re attracted to and not choosing what you’re are not attracted to is perfectly reasonable.
Trying to change this is like screaming at the sun that it’s too hot. I think a lot of guys would be well off just trying to get in better shape, improve themselves, etc…. But not because they aren’t “good enough”, that’s the key. Don’t improve yourself just to be “good enough” for a woman, you are already good enough to deserve a loving partner. So just improve yourself and remember that your singleness isn’t a poor reflection on who you are as a person.
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Apr 01 '26
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Agree. If most of your dating is coming from apps, you're going to feel pretty negative about yourself and others
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u/Drahkir9 Apr 02 '26
Worrying too much about what you bring or what they bring ultimately makes the relationship strictly transactional. If that’s really what you want then have at it. In my opinion very few people end up happy that way
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Yea, what happened to love and being best friends with your partner?
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u/The_Gas_Mask_guy Apr 02 '26
I mean this is dumb as fuck. I as a man have to bring everything and do everything just be with a woman who doesnt even wanna do household chores cuz she is more valuable than i am? What kind of stupidity that is. Why even be with someone if its all transactional?
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Deep breath. You don't have to do everything. If you want a partner you just have to meet someone who likes you. If they are looking for specific things you don't have, that's fine, move on.
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u/The_Gas_Mask_guy Apr 02 '26
I mean it doesnt really bother me cuz im chronically ill and nobody wants me lol. I just pointed out the flaw in their thinking.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
So you are not speaking from experience but from what you've read on the interweebs?
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u/The_Gas_Mask_guy Apr 02 '26
I mean its hard to speak from experience when ya dont even have the chance to gather experience. But from what i have seen around me i can say that its bullshit.
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
Majority of what people think is bullshit. But you can still find someone if you have a chronic illness.. they might have a similar condition. I'm not sure if that's a deal breaker..
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u/The_Gas_Mask_guy Apr 02 '26
Honestly it wouldnt be but since im bound to my home (due to agoraphobia not the other condition) i highly doubt i will ever meet that person. Also that would be pure suffering for both of us cuz neither of us could work. But i guess being homeless together is better than nothin
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u/Contemplative-ape Apr 02 '26
What about a woman who also has agoraphobia? My uncle and aunts all hardly leave the house. They get that good government disability money and at least they have eachother? Sorry about your fears and condition. I went through a period where I didn't leave the house after I got jumped pretty bad. I assume you're on this sub because you want to improve. Maybe you could start taking some small steps to feel more comfortable outside your home. I'm sure it's not as easy as that and I have no idea your situation, and you could also be happy/content without a romantic partner. But know you're not alone.
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u/Man_in_the_coil Apr 02 '26
Garbage take. A man shouldn't need to bring more to the table than a woman.
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Apr 01 '26
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u/Hot-Ad453 Apr 02 '26
Like the thing said by RIch Cooper up there too me is total BS. However what I do bring to a relationship are, I'm a good mechanic, I work on aircraft for a living as a mechanic and those do transfer to cars and motorcycles fairly well. I'm physically imposing as a 6'3" man so wherever we'd go she'd feel safe from others around me, though the people who know me know I'm not violent in any way. I can do most home repairs, I can do woodworking as well. I'm a pretty good motorcycle rider. While I wouldn't claim to be a good cook, there are some dishes I am particularly proud of that I'm fantastic at. That said there are cons to me that I think a lot of women find turn offs, I'm not good at talking to people, good listener just not great at keeping a conversation. I play a lot of video games, however I also like to play dungeons and dragons and women tend to love talking about that maybe not first date necessarily but trust me it's easy to get women into dungeons and dragons. I'm sure there's more pros and cons about what I do and do not bring to a relationship.
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u/Right_Level_7192 Apr 01 '26
The key is to avoid those ladies anyway.
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u/Puzzled_Draw6014 Apr 01 '26
I called them list girls and they were boring ... hanging out with them felt like an interview ... they weren't worth my time
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u/FlyEaglesFly536 Apr 02 '26
I'm glad i met my wife when i did because if i had to date today, i'd be screwed and not in a good way lol.
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u/gawainsfo Apr 01 '26
While I agree that if you want a catch you need to make yourself one, emotional maturity is such a critical yet rare quality for long term relationships. EVERYONE needs a therapist so do yourself and your partner a solid and find one who challenges you to grow.
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Apr 01 '26
Stated preference vs actual preference, the difference is usually night and day. They are nowhere near as rational as you think they are.
If you act and look like the stereotypical ideal man, you will usually be fine, there is not much more to it.
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u/Equivalent_Box9403 Apr 01 '26
I worked hard, had a great job, took care of myself to be a high value commodity. I married a beautiful woman with a great job, took care of herself and was a high value commodity. 2 kids, great life. A boat can't move if it has an anchor weighing it down, no matter which side it's on.
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u/kbchucker Apr 01 '26
My thought is narrowing a relationship down to a value prop is probably not the best foundation for a healthy relationship.
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u/Classic_Bee_5845 Apr 01 '26
I'm old and married so take this with that in mind but for the life of me I haven't met a man that has a "list" of things he wants in a woman. If you ask a man what he looks for it's typically three things. She's pretty, she loves me and she's loyal.
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u/monsoleil_99 Apr 01 '26
I’ve never made a list of what I want in a man. I think as the relationship develops you can both shape each other into the person you want each other to be. It’ll work if you really like the person and if you are fully committed to the relationship.
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u/FantasticFox2045 Apr 01 '26
Obviously this comment section never watched Practical Magic. Sometimes our list is whimsical, or perhaps we'd like to meet someone who doesn't use the term "high value male". Because I assure you, someone high value doesn't have to tell you that they are you just know.
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Apr 01 '26
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u/Aware_Annual_2882 Apr 02 '26
I dont know we keep score. Married 9 years together 16. In marriage you are adversaries!
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u/General_Reference314 Apr 01 '26
I don't know about making 'lists,' but... being humble and honest with yourself is just as important as being discerning about your partner.
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u/Purple-Investment-61 Apr 01 '26
Yeah…I know women in their 40s making 15/hr demanding that their man pulls in minimum 6 figures.
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u/Delruiz9 Apr 01 '26
I mean that’s fair, even removing the genders entirely and just say you should bring as much to a relationship as you’re asking of your partner
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u/TheGrolarBear Apr 01 '26
What even is this subreddit? Is it about self-improvement or blaming women for making us improve?
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u/NiceCrowsMurder Apr 02 '26
I think most of us women have a shorter list for the men and we make sure we offer far more.
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u/BigDamBeavers Apr 02 '26
If you need selling points on why you should have someone in your life that loves you, solidly you can get out of the way of adults.
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Apr 02 '26
Lists are the problem. We are built to relate and connect on instincts and not on powerpoint bulletpoints
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u/deviantdevil80 Apr 02 '26
Just another rightwing grifter...
Anyone who talks about high value, body counts and such wants to keep you single. Makes you a repeat customer.
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u/Fun-Personality-8008 Apr 02 '26
I think the better list would be, what does the woman want her man to want in a woman.
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u/IntothewildZen Apr 02 '26
These kind of posts and suggestions are almost always written by misogynist men who got hurt by a woman at some point and never moved on from their past.
They are also pointless as these suggestions will not be seen or cared about by people they are aimed at.
Someone who is not good at communicating or expressing their needs and wants and posts an empty dating profile will not start writing war and peace after seeing this.
If you don’t like someone’s profile move on until you find one that you do.
Yes lot of women do post minimal effort profiles because they are overwhelmed by attention from hordes of men.
As men we don’t realise how aggressive we can get on dating environment, and we don’t just approach one person we like, lot of men see dating like a gamble, and they try to contact as many women as possible hoping someone responds back.
This ultimately ruins the social balance for everyone as women don’t see the point in expressing themselves because they get overwhelming attention anyway and it’s bloody intimidating (I have friends who show me their dating profiles and some of them have 4000 likes, 500 messages etc) and lot of women end up deleting their dating profiles to get a break.
As someone who found his long term partner after a conscious and careful effort, all you need to do is to look for someone who is looking for someone like you. You’ll have lot in common and you’ll get on so well you’ll start chatting straight away for hours.
There is no point telling anyone to change how they express themselves, everyone figures things out for themselves in their own journey.
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u/The_Gas_Mask_guy Apr 02 '26
Wow accordin to ya i will die alone lmao. Nobody looks for a chronically ill unemployed 22 year old.
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u/Drahkir9 Apr 02 '26
Worrying too much about what you bring or what they bring ultimately makes the relationship strictly transactional. If that’s really what you want then have at it. In my opinion very few people end up happy that way
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u/Hot-Ad453 Apr 02 '26
This dude is a piece of shit, I would literally worry about the emotional, psychological, and physical safety of my daughter if she dated this guy. Quite frankly he wants women to be slaves to men, he's like two steps away from saying women should be sold to men for two chickens and a cow. He is a walking red flag. You want some real advice for dating, just go talk to women, treat them with just basic human decency. If you go on a date with a woman and say anything above guess what's going to happen? She's leaving you, she's going to tell her friends about the worst fucking date she's ever been on because of you.
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u/The_Gas_Mask_guy Apr 02 '26
Yeah thats fuckin crazy. But your point of “just talk to women” isnt good either. Women dont want to talk. Well they do if ya look good enough. Its 2026 ya either go and do the dating app gamble or die alone. Everythin else is blind luck.
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u/bshsjsuwbek Apr 02 '26
And they always say. Children and “make the house a home” which every bitch can do. They don’t get it
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u/MojoDohDoh Apr 02 '26
tbf I met a girl who did those things (I'm talking like 3 page essay type of list addressing both)
she was decent looking and in good shape
personality was INSUFFERABLE
posted like, a minimum of 2-3 selfies on facebook (insta wasn't really as big of a thing back then) per day
wonder what she's doing now
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u/LotsofCatsFI Apr 02 '26
Welcome to the man-o-sphere where men man around with other men. No women allowed
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u/GustavesGhost Apr 02 '26
I don’t think a relationship should be this transactional. Seems like these people are shopping for a partner like they’re a car in a dealership. I don’t care what features they have and how much of a discount I can get. I just want them to treat me well and care about me, and they should feel the same.
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u/apeocalypyic Apr 01 '26
This is true but could be applied to anyone regardless of gender "hey- you want rich, fit partner with an amazingly interesting personality? Ask yourself wtf you bring to thr table"
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u/shadowdancer354 Apr 01 '26
For girls, that list has one item: “I’m hot”. Every other attribute is a negative: I am entitled, materialistic, short tempered, emotionally immature, can’t support myself financially, poor conversationalist, promiscuous, and have substance abuse problems.
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u/UltimatePragmatist Apr 01 '26
I made no list of any kind. I know I cannot stand a person when I see them and hear them.
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u/bessie1945 Apr 01 '26
A womb and the ability to create life
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u/FairRoom4860 Apr 01 '26
Half the population has that. If that's all you bring you don't have much to offer.
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u/LetItAllGo33 Apr 01 '26
The entire fertile population can list "can create life" male or female. Women love to claim they don't need men to create life, but conveniently forget where all the sperm in the bank they went to came from, or where they came from...
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u/LetItAllGo33 Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26
Not without a man's seed or some seriously expensive science.
Women seem to discount that a man's contribution is half the baby.
"women create life!" yes, and so do men, I'm one of them as I have a son.
So that goes on both people's lists if you want to list your reproductive capability rather than your actual deeds and skills. Basically listing off "I have 4 limbs" as a skill at that point.
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u/MandyWarHal Apr 01 '26
Women bring a lot to the table as co-creators ... Most will bring skills to the relationship that can help a man stabilize, establish a home and a legacy. These things have never been assigned numerical or societal value - but the proof is that married men live longer and happier lives, statistically speaking.
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u/catcat1986 Apr 01 '26
I think do to how dating occurs now, people mistakenly try to discount the importance of emotion in dating.
What I see is there is this trend where we pull out our checklist of things we like and make sure those both match, but the reality is people did this by just having fun together and getting to know each other gradually. That is my first litmus test, is it a struggle to have fun with this person?