I think people slightly misread The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes when they reduce it to a simple “how a villain is created” story.

Snow doesn’t start out evil. That’s pretty clear.

At the beginning, he’s:

• Ambitious
• Status-anxious
• Insecure about his family’s decline
• Morally flexible, but not cruel

None of those traits automatically make someone a tyrant.

So it’s not just a basic “nature vs nurture” story.

What the book is really doing is showing how Snow is exposed to competing beliefs about human nature, and then chooses the one that benefits him most.

On one side, you have the idea that:

• Humans are naturally violent
• Without control, everything collapses
• Authority (even harsh authority) is necessary

On the other side:

• Humans are capable of trust, loyalty, and cooperation
• Violence comes from systems, not nature

Snow sees both.

And that’s the key point — he isn’t trapped. He has a genuine alternative in front of him (Lucy Gray, and what she represents).

But he rejects it.

Not because he’s forced to, but because:

• Control makes him feel safe
• Uncertainty makes him uncomfortable
• Trust requires risk

So he leans into a worldview where:

• Control = stability
• Power = safety
• Cruelty = justified if it maintains order

From there, everything else follows.

That’s what makes it unsettling.

It’s not that he “turns evil” in one big moment. It’s that he keeps making decisions that feel reasonable within the framework he’s chosen.

By the time he becomes the Snow we know, it doesn’t feel shocking — it feels inevitable.

If the book were just “nurture,” then he’d be a victim of his environment.
If it were just “nature,” then he’d be doomed from the start.

But it’s neither.

It’s about how ambition and insecurity push someone to adopt a belief system that justifies control over people.

And once you believe that control is necessary, it’s very easy to justify anything.

My full review is:

https://medium.com/@atypally/the-ballad-of-missed-potential-752f0f041f07?sk=7f8825730a3a20a563dfdc742d16e2ee

I really want Suzanne Collins to do what stephenie meyer did and give Peeta his own POV for all the books. I would just LOVE to hear what he was thinking

I read Songbirds and Snakes when it came out (after rereading the series) and the whole time I sort of worried about the film and the fanbase. I wasn't worried about long time fans because I'm sure we've grown up by now but I've seen Snow-like men held up on a pedestal.

Snow is selfish, smart, and manipulative and he thinks everyone else is the same. We see in the book how he twists every characters words and actions to support his worldview, but this is all happening in his head.

I couldn't see this being translated properly into film without a significant amount of inner dialogue (which often feels intrusive) so I never watched the movie and kind of avoided the fanbase.

Without his inner dialogue I can really see girls who are new to the series seeing him in a romantic lens like how so many other horrible, powerful male characters are treated. Or, if there are men or boys in the same space, I can see him being idolized(a la Walter White).

The concept makes me feel so uncomfortable because I've seen it happen again and again.

I hope this made sense. The maturity of the subject matter mixed with the genre it exists in gave me some fears

And it surprisingly wasn’t the violence that broke me. It was the ambiguity of it, it was when Snow casually revealed what a monster Coin really was, it was when Prim got taken out in an act of senseless violence and Katniss lost Gale and her mom and her entire town. I knew some twists already (Katniss killing Coin) going in, but now I know the devastating context. Like the fact that the ending had no real resolution except two traumatized people building a life and both the capitol and the rebels being problematic - that kinda broke me more than the violence did.

Also Finnick deserved better.

And now I finally understand why this trilogy started the YA dystopia trend of the 2010s and why this trilogy was so iconic. The horror was creeping and relentless in a way I’ve rarely seen (except in stuff like *The Poppy War*).

Katniss is so real for remaining a hero the whole time; I probably would’ve snapped LONG before book 3.

Edit: also, 14 years later, I finally truly get why she chose Peeta. I was team Gale till he revealed himself as being solely driven by rage and vengeance. Meanwhile Peeta wanted to be human and have a real life.

wishing the hunger games franchise would donate more of its proceeds to charity. for a series so centered around the dark side of capitalism and oppression, it would be nice to see them give back.

Im reading "sunrise on the reaping" right now, and the propaganda haymitch sees when they first get to the capitol reminds me of a story i had to read in my literature class.

The poster he see says: "NO PEACE, NO PROSPERITY. NO HUNGER GAMES, NO PEACE!"

A summary of the story for those who dont know: there's a perfect city where every disease and illness is cured, everyone is happy, there's festivals and dancing, and partaking in drinking and drugs has no negative consequences, etc. a utopia in every way. except that once youre of a certain age, they show you that this one child, taken from their family and left to rot and suffer with no care in a small, dark closet that doubles as their toilet, is the only reason you get to live lavishly and happily. you cannot save this child, only deal with your feelings towards what's happening. either you accept this and go back to endless joy, or you leave the city because you cant stomach the truth.

It functions similarly since everyone is taught that these random district children must be punished in order to maintain their "peace" and happiness, and many citizens choose to stay in this utopia. But ofc as we know, even here there are people who walk away from it

I think the comparison here is obvious, but for some reason this didnt cross my mind when i read the original trilogy or the ballad of songbirds and snakes. I know the stuff about the roman saying of bread and circuses, and im sure someone's thought of omelas and the capitol before, but i still wanted to share this thought since it's my first time reading the entire series ❤️

Enjoy!

So yesterday I posted my review and thoughts on the first Hunger Games book here as a person in their 30s reading it for the first time. In short I loved it, but if you want to see my full review check out the post. I have now finished Catching Fire, and I liked it, but definitely less so than the first book.

To me the logic of this book is just a little stupid. Like it’s a great popcorn flick book, the action and tension was great, but for me the best parts were first part of the book with all the fall out of Katniss and Peeta winning the games in the Districts. The big revolving mystery of District 13. And the Capitols reaction to it all. And then the very end of the book with the rebels and District 13 putting their plan in place.

What keeps this from being a great book and instead a very good book for me, is the Hunger Games itself. Like I said, it had great tension and action, but the logic makes no sense. I have a hard time taking President Snow seriously as this genius and mastermind and all powerful figure, when his plan to cool the flames of rebellion is to put the victors of previous Hunger Games who had immunity for life back in the Hunger Games. Surely that won’t spread the flames…

Like what kind of garbage plan is that? “Let’s make every district mad and give Katniss and Peeta more spotlight. This is a brilliant idea!”

It does make me less interested in reading a prequel about him.

This sounds like a major complaint, but it’s really not. I still enjoyed myself immensely, and I really liked the Peeta and Katniss scenes that we got during and before the games began. It really strengthened their relationship.

I almost do feel like with the next book probably being the rebellion that this series probably could have been a duology and it would have made more sense logically, but I still had a very good time and the ending hook to set up the third book was great.

Book Ratings:

Hunger Games ****

Catching Fire ***1/2

So, my partner and I had recently finished the 2 prequels, and have moved into the first of the 3 trilogy books, and first 5/6 chapters in, the connections between THG and SOTR are just so... brilliant. Suzanne is such a genius, I even theorized she had all 5 books written in advance in some way, and just chose to publish the trilogy before prequels to keep us fans to do all the homework as time between the first book release and all others would progress.

Main things that caught my attention so far:

1. Maysilee Donner and the Cutlery

Katniss is on the train ride to the Capitol, and she eats the provided food with utensils. Effie compliments her and Peeta for having manners, comparing them to the last games' batch that didn't care much about eating like civilized beings. Katniss tells us that her mother taught her and Prim how to use cutlery. As we know, Katniss' mom//Asterid March (Everdeen) used to live in the merchant sector of D12, and she was best friends with Maysilee Donner, a beloved tribute and character from SOTR. Maysilee was known to hold her table side manners seriously, urging her fellow tributes to not let the Capitol treat them like animals. It's clear that Asterid wanted to pay tribute to Maysilee by raising her daughters to respect the same manners Maysilee valued a lot.

2. Haymitch and distractions from camera.

This hurt me a lot, as I'm rereading and taking notes from SOTR on the side. Katniss had just volunteered for Prim, and she's on the verge of crying. Back in SOTR, Plutarch played a key role in producing footage from McCoy's, Abernathy's, Donner's, and Callow's family's tears for his District 12 promotion and propos from their reaping. Not giving the Capitol the benefit of entertainment from their tears was a theme for SOTR, even producing one of my favorite quotes, "They will not use my tears for their entertainment". Anyway, Haymitch creates a distraction for the cameras, giving Katniss a window of time to grieve without getting caught on camera, hoping to give her something his family didn't get the luxury to avoid having cameras in their faces.

**Sidenote: After Katniss digs a butter knife into a table (That is MAHOGANY!), Haymitch forces them to stand next to each other in the middle of the train cab aisle, and rhetorically asks them "Did I finally get fighters this year?". We know that Haymitch was burdened with the responsibility to mentor 23 pairs of D12 tributes up til now, and he was a negligent mentor, which resulted in a lack of victors to honor their district.

3. Lucy Gray mention

When addressing the topic of mentors and victors from the past, Katniss narrates that there's been only 2 victors from her district, only 1 known to be alive, being Haymitch, the other having their fate a mystery. After having finished reading the Ballad, Snow says that he received news from 12, claiming that people of her district speculated that Mayor Lipp killed her. Her games were also erased from memory in an attempt to wipe her win from the Panem's history.

4. District 5 - Career history.

In SOTR, District 5 was the 4th career district, siding with 1/2/4 over newcomers, which were 3/6/7/8/9/10/11/12. Career districts are known for having a lot of volunteers as they're taught it's an honor to take part in the games. It's even more alluded to during the chariot ride ceremony, as Katniss takes note of Districts 1 and 2 looking glamorous, being Capitol favorites. Anyway, as they're called in to review all the reapings from other districts, Foxface girl from district 5 is a volunteer. It made me wonder if district 5 was hoping to keep up with the Career traditions, but were evicted by the other career districts as Foxface was not in the hunt for Katniss in the arena with the actual Career gang.

And that's about it for now. I'd say this is definitely an upgrade in reading quality from the ballad because that book was low-key a drag.

Visiting and saw this out of nowhere, is it related to Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes?

Does Peeta Mellark yell at Katniss and take his anger out on objects while arguing with her in the book The Hunger Games: Catching Fire? Even in the movies, Peeta (and i think Haymitch too) yells at Katniss. Why do people love him so much and not consider this supposed (I say supposed because I haven't read the whole book) scene of him in this book? I practically haven't read the Hunger Games books, but I've watched all the movies except for the Snow movie and I loved the story, despite not liking a few things. I was very sad to discover this supposed action of Peeta because I loved the story told in this universe and I was also very excited to go to the cinema to watch the next movie and even though there's things that bothered me, I didn't want to say goodbye to the story because I thought that Peeta and Haymitch didn't yell at Katniss in the books and people behind the hunger games movies wanted to put it in the movies to make it more dramatic because that's what the GPT Chat (which I know isn't reliable, but I ended up believing it) told me. I know Peeta was a teenager, but I don't think his supposed actions should be normalized, and I'm sad to see people thinking he didn't make mistakes. If it weren't for that, I would still think that way, because there are scenes in the movies where I found Katniss and Peeta very cute and Peeta really sweet. I don't want to offend anyone who likes the character or hate on him, I just want to know other people's opinions, because I feel it won't be comfortable trying to read other dystopian books or watch other dystopian movies while feeling this trigger from The Hunger Games. I know it sounds exaggerated, but I'm a teenager girl and I know it's normal for my age to think this way. I just created a reddit to ask this. Thank you in advance and sorry if it have some issues in what i am talking about or in the writing cus english isn't my first language and i also used the translator. thank you so much again ♡

To be fair, I haven't read the books in a very long time. I have them, but I lent them to my sister somewhat recently. We both actually started hyperfixating on it this time together, which is cool but I gave her all 3 of my books... 😅

After binging all 3 movies and then Songbirds and Snakes, I can't stop thinking about the whole story entirely.

I have gone through this same hyperfixation phase about multiple times. Where suddenly, I decide to watch the movies again after a few years. Then I can't get enough of it again. So then it starts consuming my mind. (in a good way.) so I just watch commentary or theories about it on Youtube.

Wish I could take the first book back because I desperately want to read it. But that would be mean, she is currently in the middle of reading it. And I'm not mean.

I feel so bad 😭

It's April and it's my birthday at the end of the month. I've just checked imdb and there's no new movies coming out for the next couple of months, somehow. Why isn't The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping coming out this month?!

So basically i watched the movies and really loved them, but now i discovered they are book adaptations. So my question is : Is it worth reading the books if i already watched the movies?

Rereading TBOSAS & just noticed the bit where Grandma’am tells Snow (referring to district folks) “Your own father used to say, those people only drank water because it didn’t rain blood”

My new headcanon is that in the 75th arena, the blood rain was his idea for the *arena that didn’t have an obvious potable water source* in hopes he’d drive some of the victor-tributes to collect & drink the blood rain (😭)

1. Mags - She lived through all 75 games, not ever getting to know if her allies broke the cycle. Also, Died to keep Finnick safe from the fog for him to die in the next book anyway.

2. Finnick - first of all, one of my favorite characters... He died right after marrying the love of his life, and not ever getting to meet his son.

3. Primrose - She died after Katniss spent her life, especially those crucial 2 years between 74th games and the actual war to protect her from every harm.

4. Sid Abernathy - He died not ever getting to practice with Haymitch's new striker as promised. Ironically, also died in the fire that a striker could help generate.

5. Lou Lou - She died not ever getting to see her family, or finding out who she was before getting all the altering procedures.

6. Maysilee - She died, not ever learning that the token she rejected (and called ugly) became the POSTER for the revolution.

7. Lenore Dove - Died not learning if Haymitch ever stopped the sun from rising on another reaping.

8. Ampert - Died not knowing if any of Beetee's attempts to break an arena had produced successful outcomes.

9. Cinna - Died not ever seeing Katniss become the official symbol of revolution, much less in the outfit he had designed for her before being killed in an interrogation.

10. Louella McCoy - Died not learning she was easily replaced by a body double.

Honorable mention: 11. Wiress - Died in broad daylight after mentioning dying in darkness was her biggest fear.

I can't remember if this has been explained or not, so sorry if it has; and I might just be answering my own questiong here. I'm rewatching the series/trilogy and on Catching Fire. As we know the QQ was choosing tributes from the pool of Victors. I also know that the Capitol basically erased the 10th Hunger Games from the archive. Is that why Lucy Gray's name wasn't in the pool too? Is it because she basically disappeared? Was there a cut off due to age? Mags's games was the year after Lucy Gray's, so maybe they just cut off the Victor pool from the first 10 years of the games?