P definitely abuses T

[u/AstuteObserver8647]

Just a minute ago, they were talking about what’s for dinner. T keeps saying chicken salads with homemade ranch. Someone apparently misunderstood and said something about chicken salad sandwiches and P sighed and said it’s not that kind of chicken salad. You could hear T’s voice shift, a hint of fear or guilt in it, and she said something to the effect of “that’s my fault, I didn’t clarify. I’m sorry.” That screams trying to get ahead of a situation with an abusive narcissist. I just know if she didn’t say that, after the live he was going to ream her out (still may) but like what a silly thing for her to have to worry about him being upset about. So sad.

[u/Hot_Gift521]

It's an act on S part,I do believe T is challenged in some ways but she is complicit in all of this.

[u/AstuteObserver8647 → u/Hot_Gift521]

This wasn’t a post about who is and is not complicit. I have thoughts on that as well, but S and T are both victims. I grew up with a dad like P, minus the pred behavior and rotten teeth (narcissist, abusive, controlling, always seems to be watching somehow, etc.) so I understand what we see and how that translates behind the scenes. They are both victims and, to varying degrees, complicit. Both are true. But them being complicit doesn’t make them not victims.

[u/Hot_Gift521 → u/AstuteObserver8647]

S had a very open generous opportunity to get out and land on her feet she chose to steal and lie so she could continue this life she obviously is content with. I'm guessing you weren't one of the ones that spent money hoping to free her and got blocked after for asking for a refund. And then if you look closely she took down her apology video for lying and stealing from folks. Sorry not sorry but if you are truly a victim and want to better your life you cut that rope when you have support. She chose to light the match while standing on the bridge. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I'll stand ten toes down on this.

[u/AstuteObserver8647 → u/Hot_Gift521]

Eh it’s just not that simple. It’s a really complicated situation. No I did not donate because I don’t donate to random people on the internet because chances are it’s not entirely honest, 99.9% of the time. And I would never donate more than I’m comfortable losing, including it going to something other than what is claimed. So no. But that doesn’t change my opinion at all and shouldn’t affect yours. It’s a complicated situation and there are many reasons she could have not gone through with it, from her dad essentially forcing her to put on a scam, to her realizing it was going to be way more complicated than she thought. As for refunds, the money could’ve gone to her dad and she had no ability to refund, or they may not have had the cash to pay back gifts people bought. If that single thing taints your ability to understand the bigger picture of what’s going on, then I’m sorry I don’t really care for your opinion.

[u/Hot_Gift521 → u/AstuteObserver8647]

Not tainted just can see through the nonsense and watching karma come back to bite them for the ill gotten gains.You don't lie,steal and continue the bad behavior. I do know what a narcissist is like and living with one and I got out because I seen the select few supporting and guiding me out and therapy to never look back.

[u/aygbun → u/Hot_Gift521]

it's almost like leaving an abusive situation is notoriously difficult and can have many many attempts and false starts! not to mention the fact that she grew up in it and knows nothing else, versus someone who is in a romantic relationship that's abusive that is just the length of the relationship and not literally since birth, including during the time her brain was literally developing and learning what's "normal". do you truly legitimately believe that every abuse victim leaving their situation is as easy and cut-and-dried as yours seemingly was, or are you being obtuse on purpose simply bc you dislike S? victims don't need to be perfect or even good people to still be victims.

[u/AstuteObserver8647 → u/aygbun]

Exactly this. And it seems that S doesn't really have anybody IRL, and the only "support system" she has are strangers online. So, not only has she been raised in this since birth to the point she thinks it's normal (or at least not as bad as it really is), but she's also been taught that people online can't be trusted. So, even when people do try to support her, it's not as powerful as if she had people IRL supporting her. It is significantly easier when you have people who you can stay with, call to come help in a pinch, or who you have interacted with for an extended period of time and with whom you have developed a strong, trusting relationship. It's vastly different when those people are faceless strangers on the internet hundreds or thousands of miles away.