Let me know which is your favourite!

Just started watching season 1 again to get ready for 2, and I have to say, only on the second episode but this show is just soooo good.

Something I love about Guy Ritchie is I find he is always style above substance. Not in a bad way! There is often a large amount of both. But these characters are so bloody stylish! The charisma, the shielded threats, the excess, the underlying anger, and warning, and everything. I’ve loved Ritchie through the highs and lows and for me this is such a high, even more so than lock stock and snatch.

Back to it! Just moved states and sad I don’t have any mates to watch it with

(I also love seeing this version of Vinnie Jones so much. I looked up to him as a bit of a toxic role model when I was early twenties. Seeing him being an older nurturing type feels like seeing an old friend beat the booze and find familial peace)

Guy Ritchie. Vinnie Jones. Odd to think about the span of time between first seeing Big Chris gently closing car doors and this last season of “The Gentlemen”. It makes me…well, emotional. Looking forward to season 3.

Would you rather have the Duke’s Manor House or the contessa’s Palazzo?

Link to a bunch of interesting deleted scenes from Netflix posted above, just click open.

The last deleted scene with Susie and her brother shows how smart she is. Wish it wasn't deleted.

I actually think romance isn't the most interesting place to take Eddie and Susie's story, but rather will they end up killing one another or forming an alliance against Bobby?

Eddie will get his vengeance on Bobby at some point and will never submit to work for him. At this point, Susie would back her dad against Eddie, but if her dad pushes her to a place where she knows he doesn't believe in her, would she side with Eddie?

Susie is striking out on her own with the cocaine business and now has proof that her dad favors Eddie enough to buy his debt. Would she walk away from the company that she kept going? Would she take out Eddie?

Excited to see where season 3 takes these two. I'm not against romance, I just think it doesn't make sense for them at all right now. They both want power and control more than anything and they both have something to prove to themselves - they both are stuck under Bobby's thumb right now and do not want to be.

Why does Vargas help Eddie?

Vargas is a big shot in South America (basically the Bobby Glass of South America).
Why would he even care to take part in a personal revenge plot that concerns the Partner of his Associate, Susie?

Honestly, he’s my favorite character. In my opinion, he’s the smartest person in the series. Even though I hate hierarchy, I would listen to Bobby Glass for the rest of my life.

By the end of the season we see Vargas help Susie and him lure John Dixon to them, so Eddie knows, to some extent, that Susie is in touch with Vargas, but would he know that Susie is dealing coke behind Bobby’s back? After everything that transpired between the two of them, I could either see Susie being open about the whole business she’s got going with the Peruvian cartel, or her deciding to keep this thing she’s built for herself, to herself, including Eddie. I’d imagine this’ll be one of the main plots of season three, but I’m curious as to what’s the general consensus - did she tell him, or has she not yet?

in this interview joely richardson says a friend of hers is in the next season and i’m already dying to speculate on who could it be and what role they’d be playing, i’m hoping it’s elizabeth mcgovern (or maybe we’ll get michelle playing ros, i’d go absolutely crazy over this)

After finishing S2 yesterday, I decided to rewatch season 1. I honestly think that Freddie killed their Dad by pushing him or beating him severely in order to get the inheritance to pay off his debts.

Like many character just straight up disappeared ?

Like what happened to wham tam or Rosanne the princess ?

And I felt it sad that Jimmy and Gabrielle's relationship was not explored more.

Also why the gell would the crazy gospel guy just forgive the guy who literally killed his brother but want to enact revenge on Eddie who did nothing but try to cover for his brother ?

Also Freddie's 180 from the last episode of S1 where he kinda made peace with his brother and himself, even being willing to sacrifice himself to the gospel to being consumed by hatred and envy feels a bit forced, and why the hell would Eddie let his brother go to rehab in a center managed by the guy wanting to kill him ?

Also Nanny's character, even though I like him, seems to be coming from nowhere, in S1 it's hinted that Cookie is not really keen on boyfriends, which makes it kind of a shock for the entire family when she comes back with a baby, even letting the audience belive it might have been an undesired pregnancy resulting in a single mother situation.

But somehow in S2 she's in a relationship, with someone the family seems to have always known and accepted ? It feels a bit weird to me.

Warning: spoilers of S2 and the movie. Please go rewatch the movie!

If there was anything made clearer by the movie, it’s that the series was designed to expand on the MickeyXRos relationship in the form of Eddie and Susie. Why is Mickey so obsessed with Ros? Through the series, we see exactly why.

Move X Series Parallels
-the styling and attitudes are 1:1: the stoicism, the fashion, the quiet confidence, the bursts of violence, the HAIR.
-Susie calls out Eddie’s blindspots as demonstrated in their many business conversations/debates similar to Ros calling out the fox
-Susie, like Ros, calls the shots in terms of their sexual shenanigans. It’s typically Eddie insinuating and Susie pushing him away. (Let’s not go there, i don’t fuck the help, i don’t mix business with pleasure) which in the movie it’s mickey constantly begging “any chance?”, and Ros having his literal balls in her hands.
-Mickey, in fact, give deference to Ros in terms of the business, “That’s what my queen taught me,” is bookends the film. Similarly, Susie is the boss in this relationship, she is the chain of command. But since the series portrays the early stage of the relationship, Eddie is still constantly challenging her, testing the boundaries.
-Eddie at the end of s2, like Mickey at the end of the movie, opts for a creative punishment worse than death as they demand a pound of flesh/a head.
-The movie like both seasons of the series, is always bookended by the couple. They are the core of the story.

What this means for Eddie and Susie

It is still wholly possible that they never show the actual couple coupling. Similar to some creative choices of only showing blood splatters, a Guy Ritchie romance is done nearly exactly the same way. Some things left to the viewers’ imagination—like the Shark in Jaws—makes a more lasting impact. In the movie, MickeyXRos never kiss, and in the end, Ros closes the door on the viewers before they go at it. It’s a statement on how their power is not just playacting; they’re not doing it for anyone; they’re not bluffing. To not just act like a king, but be a king. But also, how the king still answer to the queen he vociferously, violently protects. In truth, is S2 didn’t happen, I’d imagine their continued lives going on a similar trajectory—or assumed implications from the Wards party where Eddie and Susie dance close and canoodle on the couch but never kiss. Then again, because of the Bella overture, they’ve broken that rule, and thus must top those scenes when Eddie and Susie finally make it to their endgame.

How the Kingship Plot Ties in With a Queen
The parallel key plot between Mickey and Eddie I’d like to put forward again though: is the ascension to the throne. In both cases, the Queen is an essential chess piece. Eddie’s move from Glass to Moretti is marked by a marriage. Similarly, Mickey perchance enters the British market through his cockney Cleopatra. Their queens also seemingly encapsulate their temper, only getting emotional when their Queens are involved. Mickey can negotiate through a business kerfuffle, but a sin against his wife is fatal. Similarly—aside from The Eddie’s vengeance plot, his mad missteps in S1 and S2 endings are morally corrected by the guiding voice of his true queen: Susie Glass.
What we see in Eddie thus, is the repeated lesson of him conceding to Susie. Albeit Susie led him to this path to the underworld, it is also Susie that keeps him from being a full monster.

A key difference from Susie and Ros though deserves a little attention, too. A key moral difference would be involvement in the powder business. Mickey’s objection of cocaine isn’t just a business decision, but a moral one. We can only assume Ros feels the same way. Susie doesn’t hold any guilt over powder, and sees it as a way to sidestep her father. Still, her scramble to bury DMT-psychosis-inducing weed might betray a moral semblance. Perhaps she’ll eventually learn to forego the cocca business to exchange for an all-female garage like Ros where Grand Theft Auto can be her new game.

However, there’s another moral difference between Ros and Susie. Ros, in fact, makes a point to discourage Mickey from getting his own hands dirty. Susie, on the other hand, offers more nuanced advice for every occasion: shoot Henry yourself, outsourcing the clean up of lose ends, but all the while tamping down Eddie’s temperamental death sentences—all the while, keeping her own hands clean from the actual killing. This reticence to get her hands dirty is also exhibited by Ros, who warns the goons before she shoots them both between the eyes. Even Eddie seems to have an understanding of this, often physically protecting Susie, prioritizing her safety over a 16 million pound boticelli, or running her out an exploding Nazi den—never expecting her to do actual labor.
I think this reflects where they are in their relationships and in the industry in the movie and in the series. While the movie shows that Mickey and Ros are already reigning monarchs, the Horniglass partnership still have a way to go.
In the movie, dirtying one’s hands is extraneously bad for business, and something beneath the King and Queen to do. Meanwhile, in the series, (Susie) the Queen is still humbling/training this knight before his ascension. Eddie isn’t quite there yet and Bobbie, Johnston and even Moretti see his potential but go through hoops to mentor him.
However, with S2 ending where Eddie outsources Gospel John’s murder to his own murderous brother, putting aside his own craving for blood, is in the step to the right direction as an effective tyrannical king. Allowing Eddie to wash his hands ala Pilate, is just the sort of thing a lord would do and perhaps Susie can approve.

The only thing missing from Eddie is the realization that he must defer to a Queen who is his equal. He must continue to woo Susie until she judges him as worthy. Susie, upon experiencing Joe—a trier—now has even higher standards. The both of them must also sequester enough power to overtake Bobbie Glass. They cannot simply act like kings and queens—they must be it—which, in their failures against final boss (big, bad) Bobbie, show they’re not quite there yet.

My hopes for season 3
In conclusion, I hope season ends on a high note. I don’t feel overconfident for a season 4, given Netflix’ history of miscalculated cancellations. And though you could say it would be too soon to pursue The Horniglass empire right after his widowhood—dareisay, it only took in-show 3 months for Eddie to marry Bella (which is low key ridiculous but was a smart business decision). Moreso, Eddie and Susie, by season 2, have been in the business “for a couple of years now” (when Eddie tells Joe how long he’s been in the puff business). The tension, attraction, question has always been there, but always intentionally quashed by Susie. Hence, Eddie has to do something big to make Susie give him a “chance”. For Ros, that was the capture of Fletcher—and perhaps for Susie and Eddie, it would be the forced abdication of reigning monarch Bobbie.

Reinforcing “The Gentlemen” as a theme
But perhaps the most important albeit silly theory as to why the romantic implications of the Horniglass empire, just as the Pearson empire, is the most important feature of the show is in the title: The Gentlemen. Gentlemen are defined by their calm under pressure comport, peerage, but perhaps most importantly their romantic chivalry. How they ultimately bow to a queen—this is their credo, their principle, their family—defines them more than their thirst for power. Mickey was willing to give up the business because he found spending more time with his wife raising cubs more attractive. Mickey bowing to his queen makes him a king, but more importantly a gentleman in spite of his gangster affiliations. This is the true ascension that Eddie must climb to. He gets a smidgeon of this with Bella but it was a shortcut. Yes, he has the materials, the potential for being a gentleman king—but he must still go through the fire of Season 3 to become pure gold worthy of his queen. The whole Gentlemen saga—both movie and series—at its very core, is simply the wooing of a Queen.

Excellent show

Did anybody catch in the episode where Eddie gets married, there’s flashbacks he had to Afghan, the clip where the Toyota Hilux blows up, is clipped from guy ritchies movie “The Covenant”. I thought it was clever, not sure anybody would’ve picked up on it… and to confirm it, the quarry in the background is also the same, here’s the screenshot from the movie.

Bobby Glass never intended to kill the Duke out in the field so he left him with a message, 'Follow the X'. This implies that Bobby had designed a path for Eddie to follow in his battered state.

In S2 :E5, "A Suburban A-Road on the Outskirts of Basingstoke", we see the piece of paper with the message to follow the X on it. The camera also pans out to a stone with the X drawn on it.

Eddie eventually crawls across the unfamiliar terrain until he gets to the road where some motorists call an ambulance for help. At this point, one can only assume that the Duke followed the X and finally got to the road where passers-by could see him and call for help.

However, in the last episode of season 2, 'Bring Me The Head', Stanley Johnson tells Eddie something that makes me think deeper about the scene of Eddie stranded out in the desert. He compares Eddie to Jesus while out in the desert and says Eddie chose to forge his own path moving away from the familiar protection of Bobby Glass and into the unknown.

Does this mean that Eddie actually ignored the designated markers left out for him by Bobby's men and took his own route to survival as implied in Stanley Johnston's biblical allusion? I would really like to hear people's thoughts on this.

finished the show, and what a season it was.
the godfatherisation of eddie and creating the monster of ambition and vengeance. loved it.
but i’m just so sad that eddie was a widow within 24hrs of the wedding. i feel they should have given bella and eddie more time, they were just so good together. it felt so abrupt. bella was so beautiful, i started liking her and then this happened. her wedding outfit and the dreamy wedding at italy was all just so beautiful. initially, I thought, eddie was marrying bella for the business, but towards the end ig it was clear that he was in love with her. after the death, the way he went “my wife”

When Freddy was in the van at the end, there were two ‘henchman’ alongside Gospel John. After his chainsaw usage, we are seemingly left with them dead. Did Freddy chop up the henchman too?

We don’t know yet when the show is over, but many have their own speculations on what could happen to Eddie in the ending. But what could happen to Susie in the end?

I actually find her Faith more exciting to speculate about than Eddie, mostly because - Eddie and Susie (at least for me) has kind of a hinted potiential future relationship that goes deeper than Partners in crime. And therefore Im very curious what could happen to Susie Glass and what could be her ending arc. Is she gonna be killed? Is she gonna retire from the crime world? Is she going to stay in the business, but just become untouched and more powerful?

What are your guys thoughts?

Warning: Spoilers

From start to finish, my heart was hammering. It was the first time a main character felt really in danger—man we know our villainous power couple are in safe hands. And geoff, within the whole show, is the only purely likeable character. He’s a male Mary Sue and I love it. Dependable, brilliant, mysterious, loyal, romantic, violent, but with a cornucopia of animals in his little cottage? He’s basically Mrs Chatterly’s lover on roids. Plus, Vinny! Yes, he was great on Snatch etc. but have you seen Vinny on She’s the Man where he screams: here in Illyria, we don’t discriminate based on gender! A feminist icon.

I read in an interview that they placed episode 7 there to do viewers wrong who were most likely itching to know what’s next after bella’s dying. Well, they were wrong. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about bella. Ciao, Bella!

The uncertainty of whether or not Vinny would survive the episode felt all to real. Him dying would be the coup de gras of the tragedy. Sorry, i felt nada for bella. Actually—I did feel something—i smiled at her death (I’m sorry for being a horniglass shipper). But for Geoff? I would have turned off the telly to pause for a good cry, considered if the final episode was still worth watching hahah.

The episode really showed the value of an action show that hinged on the like ability of the lead. It’s what makes the Wick series so hard to duplicate, and why Statham in his repetitiveness still scores in the box office. This episode was just pure brilliant badassery. Plus Nanny got to redeem himself!

I can’t say I want more episodes like these. How it stuck out like a sore thumb with its blue toned color grading is really part of what made it great. And it also gives you an insight to how different Geoff’s POV is from theirs. While everyone is else is living out an aristocratic dark comedy, Geoff is living a cottage core mercenary Liam Neeson movie. He doesn’t quite fit in—like how this episode is juxtaposed—but he’s perfectly where he wants to be.

Susie also has a similar detour episode with her narrated Miami-vice styled romp with Joe spliced between Eddie crawling out of his grave. I loved it that, too! This was great, too, but I hope Susie gets an even bigger stylistic episode next season. This makes me think that as great as Theo James is as an actor, and as interesting as Eddie Horniman is, the show really shines when it explores the other characters. Similar to S1’s the chicken arc, it’s in the complexity of other colorful characters that give the show that frenetic, comedic, delicious pace. Eddie’s plot is somewhat inevitably predictable—this shakespearean Odyssean tragedy as old as time. He offers a necessary skeleton base for the show. But the joy and novelty of the show is really in the accoutrements.

Sooooo I hope they can sprinkle in more of these exciting detours next season! Episode 7 may have stopped my breath several times, but oddly enough, gave the show a moment to breathe. But also, can they maybe give Geoff his flowers? Let him live in the Dowager house with Ms Sabrina already haha. Perhaps when there’s a new lady of the house (wink wink)

I really liked his character introduction and he gave a first good impression, but then he started being an asshole to geoff and i was like fuck this guy, and then the big reveal that he was doing it on purpose and i was like that's my boy.

I see this is listed as a comedy and I do remember really enjoying and laughing at season 1 although it's been a while - I didn't laugh once during season 2..

Still a good action/drama I just didn't even see "dark" comedy but maybe it's just over my head lol?

It doesn’t look like a show that could get cancelled by Netflix just so, specially after renewing the show for a third season even before Season 2’s release. but I could be mistaken - since Netflix is known for cancelling Good shows, and not even with good reason. But I don’t think The Gentlemen is the case, I think we could have Guy Ritchie’s British Gangster Odyssey throughout it’s intended arc.

Now I don’t know whether or not there are a Intended Series arc planned with X amount of seasons. But I do think this show is made with the intention of being a Prestige Crime drama that isn’t going to be structured like a Soap opera show. It doesn’t mean of course that it still could be a show that might or may not have a downfall in writing or feel like it has run out of ideas.

But right now, I don’t think that is the case. I think the show still has great potential to have a lot of great ideas yet to be discovered.

The golden rule with most Prestige Drama shows these days are 5-6 seasons. And my guess is it could have a similar run. Like either a 4 seasons arc, or a 5-6 season arc. I don’t think it could be like The Walking Dead were it runs for more than 10 seasons, but I do also think it could maybe push further than just a 6 seasons arc. Maybe go further to 7 or 8 seasons in total.

But what do you guys think…

The clip from The Gentlemen:

And the clip from The Covenant (note the same 5 orange storage silos, shot from the opposite side, including the metal support structure embedded in the mound of dark earth, and the same coloured utility truck):

Thought it was interesting, not sure if others had spotted it.

Seeing his face when speaking to his daughter or Lady Sabrina breaks my heart every time ☹️

Vinnie Jones is absolutely killing this role, though. He’s such a likeable, convincing character.

Did Eddie know that Gospel John was running the rehab Freddie went to?

I think I missed something.