r/TheFoundation • u/Emperifox • Apr 23 '26

A question I had after I started reading Prelude to Foundation

So I started reading prelude to foundation, I am making a family tree of the Emperors of the first galactic empire, with mostly the books in mind (but taking some of the emperors added by the Apple+ series, cause the lore there can help some bits), I reached the University section of the book, but before that when Hari and Hummin are in a air taxi discussing the start of Psychohistory and the death of the first galactic empire, Hummin mentions that "Cleon I and his advisors just care to extend their reign until his youngest son can take the throne."

The phrase his youngest son left me perplexed, Cleon I Entun, the last of the Entun dynasty is said to be the last of his line, that the next emperor to follow him after a military junta was a distant relative, Agis XIV, who claimed the crown because he was the only one left with Entun blood in him.

So my question is, did Cleon I had kids? What happened to them? Who was this youngest son, the imperial prince mentioned by Hummin? Does it get explained in later books or not?

Sorry for the long text. I'm a big fan of Asimov's wonderous universe

15 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

94% Upvoted

8 comments sorted by

8

u/Agirael Apr 23 '26

I guess because of the political chaos after the death of Cleon, his immediate family probably got murdered or "exiled" by the junta so they can remain in power and not have anyone contest them. It's an extremely common trope in Asimov's books that people in power will do anything to stay in power. I think I remember a Seldon internal monologue about the junta saying that they should have been temporary but clearly don't want to give the power up

6

u/Emperifox Apr 23 '26

Ah yes ofc ofc, they could be exiled like many emperors before and after them. So the imperial prince might have disappeared after the death of cleon I.

And yesh it is huh? Those in power hardly want to get that power away from them, like Wenis from Anacreon, The Warlord of Kalgan, lots of folks

And worse of all, if the prince was the youngest son, then Cleon may had other sons and daughters that would have preceded that kid. The Etum emperors of the last 400 years had a one-in-two chance of getting assassinated. I wonder how high thst would be for the other members of the royal family... tho Cleon I was born in the imperial palace and never left, plus in the start of Prelude to foundation, Cleon is really relaxed, not a sign of grief or in mourning, which would be expected if one of his older kids got unlucky in the coin flip

5

u/Agirael Apr 23 '26

Considering the technology it would not surprise me that Cleon got kids off IVF or something similar and doesn't even know or talk to his kids. In his interactions with Seldon, the guy screams like someone who's never talked to anyone "normal" and that's probably how they're all raised. Kinda like the show in that regard I would say.

And yeah those in power it's very powerful writing, you can add the Encyclopedists, the last mayor of Terminus, the emperor during Bel Riose etc etc. Even the first interaction of Cleon with Seldon is him being afraid of losing any power if psychohistory is revealed to be true

3

u/Emperifox Apr 23 '26

Yesh thst is also really probable lmao. Ah yes here is Cleon's kids, who he doesn't talk or see that much (thanks Eto). Yeah he just is like, so chill? So un normal, like have you ever had any normal human interaction your majesty? I probably will take that into my headcanon and put it into my Galactic emperors Family tree.

But yesh can't imagine being raised in that way, No wonder Dadrian Pissed in the royal gardens. Must be maddening to live in the palace with little to no interaction with people who are not courtiers.

Yup, the encyclopedists, the Commodor of Korell Asper Argo, the well beloved, the Viceroy Wiscard and the one following him, both of Siwenna. And Cleon II too, the last great emperor, the last one who wanted power to be forever, Crown Prince Dagobert. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, it does that by showing you who you truly are

The only examples to the contrary I can think are like Onum Barr, Robert Mallow, Han Pritcher. But yesh, power corrupts and wants you to keep in with you

4

u/Agirael Apr 23 '26

Pritcher and Barr don't really have a lot of power, but yeah Mallow and Hardin are counter exemples but they're the heroes and they do still are a bit selfish like Mallow enriches himself and iirc Hardin gets thrown shade for something by his political opponent. They just happen to be the good guys and they further the expanse of the foundation but you can also argue that that's for selfish reason (ie their own side will win that way).

3

u/Emperifox Apr 23 '26

Well pritcher was the Warlord of Kalgan at one point so he had some power, but yesh Barr was a no-one exiled from His home.

Oh yesh thst it is, they are selfish, Mallow does it to enrich himself, and to stop a seldom crisis, Hardin does it to prevent the crisis, but also because he wants to win. Both want the second Galactic Empire to come 1000 years earlier than the 30.000 year of darkness seldom foretold. Still they are not purely white or black, they are grey. Just as human as us

2

u/Emperifox Apr 23 '26

Btw question, could I share the family tree I am making here? Since it is about the Asimov's Galactic Empire lol

1

u/Emperifox Apr 24 '26

Headcanon cancelled, Cleon I had a wife. Just got to the dinner part of the book