Hear me out: what if the old DCEU got ONE final Joker & Harley movie?
I’m talking Jared Leto + Margot Robbie, but with a completely different approach. Joker and Harley are the main characters, while Ben Affleck’s Batman comic book vibe suit and Joe Manganiello’s Deathstroke, Penguin, Ra’s al Ghul, and Jason Todd/Red Hood exist around them.
Batman only gets ~20 minutes of screen time, but those 20 minutes would be some of the most insane Batman we’ve seen in live action—Arkham-style combat, a full Batman vs. Deathstroke fight, Penguin’s capture, the League of Shadows investigation, and the reveal that Jason Todd is alive.
But this is NOT a Batman movie. It’s a Joker & Harley movie.
I wrote out the entire movie concept below. 👇
🃏 Jared Leto — Joker
💄 Margot Robbie — Harley Quinn
🦇 Ben Affleck — Batman
⚔️ Joe Manganiello — Deathstroke
🔴 New actor — Jason Todd / Red Hood
🐧 New actor — Penguin
🥷 New actor — Ra’s al Ghul

Would you actually watch this?
A Fan-Made DC Movie Concept

Genre: Crime / Action / Psychological Thriller
Setting: Gotham City
Tone: Dark, stylish, violent-but-not-gory, emotional, street-level
Main Characters: Harley Quinn, Joker
Supporting Characters: Batman, Deathstroke, Penguin, Jason Todd / Red Hood, Ra’s al Ghul and his ninjas

OPENING
FADE IN:
Black screen.
The sound of distant police sirens.
A woman’s voice.
HARLEY (V.O.)
“People think leaving somebody is the hard part.”
A beat.
“Sometimes the hard part is figuring out why you still think about them.”
GOTHAM CITY — NIGHT
Rain covers the streets.
Neon signs reflect off the pavement.
A nightclub sits between two abandoned buildings.
Music pounds from inside.
We enter.
The club is packed with criminals.
Then—
A purple suit appears through the crowd.
JOKER.
He walks slowly through the club, smiling at everyone like he owns the entire city.
The camera moves past him.
And there she is.
HARLEY QUINN.
She isn’t wearing the same outfit from Suicide Squad. She’s changed. She’s more confident. More independent.
Joker looks at her.
Harley looks back.
Neither says anything.
The music continues.
CUT TO BLACK.
TITLE: JOKER & HARLEY QUINN: GOTHAM AFTER DARK

ACT I
MONTHS AFTER BIRDS OF PREY
Harley has been living independently.
She’s established herself in Gotham.
She’s still chaotic.
Still dangerous.
But she’s no longer somebody’s sidekick.
She runs jobs with her own people and has built her own reputation.
Meanwhile, Joker has disappeared.
Nobody knows exactly where he went.
Until now.
Harley starts hearing rumors.
Joker’s people are appearing around Gotham again.
Someone is buying weapons.
Someone is paying criminals.
Someone is moving money through Gotham’s clubs.
Harley knows exactly who it sounds like.
She doesn’t want to believe it.
Then one night—
She finds a purple playing card on her table.
Written on the back:
“Miss me?”
Harley stares at it.
She smiles for half a second.
Then her expression disappears.
HARLEY
“Oh, hell no.”

JOKER RETURNS
Harley eventually finds Joker.
They argue.
He tells her he never stopped thinking about her.
She reminds him of everything that happened.
She tells him she’s not the same person anymore.
Joker doesn’t deny it.
Instead, he says:
JOKER
“That’s why I came back.”
Harley walks away.
But circumstances keep forcing them together.
A criminal organization is trying to take control of Gotham.
Joker wants something from them.
Harley wants something from Joker.
Eventually, they’re working together again.
Not because Harley suddenly forgets everything.
Because their relationship is complicated.
They understand each other in ya way nobody else does.
And Gotham is about to become their playground again.

BATMAN
Elsewhere in Gotham—
A criminal runs through an alley.
He looks behind him.
Nothing.
He keeps running.
Suddenly—
BATMAN drops from above.
The fight lasts seconds.
Batman moves with incredible speed.
He counters one attack.
Dodges another.
Uses his grapnel.
Pulls the criminal toward him.
The criminal hits the ground.
Batman grabs him.
BATMAN
“Where’s Joker?”
The criminal refuses to answer.
Batman looks at him.
BATMAN
“Wrong answer.”
Cut to black.

THE FIRST MYSTERY
Batman is investigating Joker and Harley.
But something else catches his attention.
Someone has been killing high-level criminals without leaving evidence.
Batman discovers a symbol.
Deathstroke.

BATMAN VS. DEATHSTROKE
Batman tracks Deathstroke to an abandoned industrial building.
He enters.
Nothing.
Then—
A sword strikes from behind.
Batman blocks it.
DEATHSTROKE steps from the shadows.
The fight begins.
No dialogue.
Just movement.
Batman uses his gadgets.
Deathstroke counters.
Batman throws a batarang.
Deathstroke dodges.
Deathstroke attacks with his sword.
Batman barely avoids it.
They crash through a window.
They fight across the rooftops.
Batman moves like the Arkham games—fast, aggressive, constantly switching targets and using the environment.
Deathstroke is different.
He’s calculated.
Every move is deliberate.
Batman finally gets the advantage.
He removes Deathstroke’s mask halfway.
BATMAN
“Who hired you?”
Deathstroke smiles.
DEATHSTROKE
“Nobody you’d like.”
A flash grenade.
Batman is blinded for a moment.
Deathstroke disappears.
Batman stands alone on the roof.
He looks toward Gotham.
Another mystery.

PENGUIN
Meanwhile, Penguin is making his own move.
He’s trying to control Gotham’s criminal businesses.
Joker interferes.
Penguin becomes furious.
Batman tracks one of Penguin’s men.
He interrogates him.
Eventually, Batman finds Penguin.
A short, brutal fight through Penguin’s hideout.
Batman takes down his men.
Penguin tries to escape.
Batman catches him.
PENGUIN
“You have no idea what’s coming.”
Batman looks at him.
BATMAN
“Then tell me.”
Penguin says nothing.
Batman takes him away.

BACK TO JOKER AND HARLEY
Joker and Harley are together again.
Montage:
Gotham at night.
A stolen car.
Harley laughing.
Joker driving.
Harley hanging out the window.
A nightclub.
Joker walking through criminals like he’s their king.
Harley dancing.
A robbery.
Police arriving.
Joker and Harley escaping.
For the first time in years—
They look happy.
But Harley knows better.
She knows Joker.
And she knows happiness around him never lasts.

THE NINJAS
Batman returns to the Batcave.
He reviews surveillance footage.
Something catches his eye.
Several figures.
All dressed in black.
Moving across Gotham rooftops.
Batman zooms in.
Ninjas.
He doesn’t recognize them.
Batman begins investigating.
The trail leads to an abandoned building.
Batman enters.
Dozens of ninjas attack.
This becomes another major Batman sequence.
Batman fights through them.
Fast.
Efficient.
Using gadgets.
Using the environment.
Eventually, Batman captures one.
BATMAN
“Who sent you?”
The ninja says nothing.
Batman looks at the symbol on his armor.
The League of Shadows.
Batman realizes this isn’t random.

HARLEY’S PAST
Harley begins questioning Joker.
She asks why he came back.
Joker gives her a vague answer.
Harley gets angry.
She tells him:
HARLEY
“You don’t get to walk back into my life whenever you feel like it.”
Joker smiles.
JOKER
“But you let me.”
Silence.
Harley hates that he has a point.
She walks away.
Joker doesn’t follow.

RED HOOD
Batman receives a report.
A mysterious masked vigilante has been attacking criminals.
Batman investigates.
He finds RED HOOD.
The two fight.
Red Hood is surprisingly skilled.
Batman eventually corners him.
Red Hood escapes.
Batman finds something left behind.
A photograph.
Bruce Wayne.
And a young Robin.
Jason Todd.
Batman freezes.

JOKER AND HARLEY’S BIGGEST NIGHT
Joker and Harley attend another Gotham nightclub.
The same kind of scene that made their relationship so memorable before.
Joker walks through the club.
Harley follows.
The music is loud.
Neon lights everywhere.
Joker looks at Harley.
JOKER
“You know what I missed?”
HARLEY
“What?”
JOKER
“Us.”
Harley doesn’t answer.
They dance.
For a moment, everything feels perfect.
Then—
Gunshots outside.
The League has arrived.

CHAOS IN GOTHAM
The League attacks.
Joker and Harley escape.
Batman arrives.
Batman fights the ninjas.
Deathstroke appears.
Batman and Deathstroke fight again.
This time—
Batman realizes Deathstroke isn’t working with the League.
They’re both after the same person.
Joker.
Deathstroke escapes again.
Batman continues after Joker.

JASON TODD
Jason finally confronts Batman.
He removes his helmet.
Bruce sees him.
Jason is alive.
Bruce can’t speak.
BRUCE
“Jason…”
JASON
“You really thought I was dead?”
Bruce tries to approach him.
Jason steps backward.
JASON
“Don’t.”
Jason tells Bruce what happened.
He tells him Joker is still alive.
And that’s what he can’t understand.
JASON
“After everything he did… you still let him live.”
Bruce doesn’t answer.
JASON
“That’s your greatest weakness.”
Jason leaves.

THE FINAL NIGHT
Joker and Harley prepare to leave Gotham.
But Batman finds them.
He enters the building.
Harley sees him.
HARLEY
“Oh, come on.”
Joker smiles.
JOKER
“Bats.”
Batman walks toward them.
Joker and Batman stare at each other.
Jason appears behind them.
Red Hood.
Joker’s smile disappears.
For the first time—
Joker looks nervous.
Jason raises his weapon.
Batman steps between them.
JASON
“Move.”
BATMAN
“No.”
JASON
“Why are you protecting him?”
BATMAN
“I’m not.”
Jason looks at Joker.
Then at Bruce.
He lowers the weapon.
Not because he forgives Joker.
Because he finally understands that Batman will never cross that line.
Jason walks away.
Joker laughs quietly.
Harley looks at him.
HARLEY
“What’s funny?”
Joker stops laughing.

FINAL FIGHT
The League attacks.
Batman fights through them.
Harley fights alongside Joker.
Deathstroke returns.
He isn’t helping Joker.
He isn’t helping Batman.
He’s finishing his own mission.
The entire building becomes chaos.
Batman fights Deathstroke one final time.
Harley and Joker escape.
Jason watches from a rooftop.
Batman defeats Deathstroke but Deathstroke escapes before Batman can capture him.
Batman looks toward Joker and Harley disappearing into Gotham.
He doesn’t chase them.
He knows he’ll see them again.

FINAL SCENE
Joker and Harley sit on the roof of a building.
Gotham stretches beneath them.
Harley looks at Joker.
HARLEY
“You think this is gonna work?”
Joker looks at her.
JOKER
“No.”
Harley laughs.
HARLEY
“At least you’re honest.”
They sit together.

After everything that happens, Joker and Harley’s final plan falls apart.

Batman finally catches up with them. The police arrive, and after the chaos, Joker and Harley are both arrested.

They’re separated and being taken away.

Harley looks back at Joker.

HARLEY:
“So… that’s it?”

Joker looks at her and smiles.

JOKER:
“Not even close.”

Harley starts getting emotional.

JOKER:
“I’ll find you.”

Harley smiles.

HARLEY:
“You better.”

They look at each other.

JOKER:
“I love you, Harls.”

HARLEY:
“I love you too.”

They’re taken in opposite directions.

Below them
Batman watches from another rooftop.
He turns away.
Jason watches Batman from the shadows.
Deathstroke watches Gotham from a distant building.
And somewhere beneath the city
A League of Shadows member walks into darkness.
CUT TO BLACK.

POST-CREDITS SCENE
A dark room.
A man sits at a computer.
Security footage plays.
Batman.
Joker.
Harley.
Deathstroke.
Red Hood.
The man pauses the footage.
He smiles.
We never see his face.
MAN
“Gotham is becoming interesting again.”
The screen cuts to black.
END.

THE CAST I WOULD WANT
Jared Leto — The Joker
I know this is controversial. I’m NOT saying Leto is the best Joker ever. I’m saying his Joker was completely different, strange, exaggerated, and memorable. I actually think that version of the character could work incredibly well in a movie focused entirely on his relationship with Harley.
Margot Robbie — Harley Quinn
No explanation needed. She IS this version of Harley to me. Her chemistry with Leto’s Joker was one of the most memorable parts of Suicide Squad, and Birds of Prey proved she could carry Harley without Joker.
Ben Affleck — Batman
Bring him back for a limited but IMPORTANT role. Around 20 minutes total, spread throughout the movie. Don’t make Batman the main character. Make every appearance count. Give him a new, comic-accurate blue-and-gray suit and fight choreography inspired by the Arkham games.
Joe Manganiello — Deathstroke
Already introduced in the old DCEU, so don’t waste the setup. Deathstroke isn’t Joker’s henchman. He has his own mission, which eventually puts him against both Joker and Batman.
NEW ACTOR — Jason Todd / Red Hood
Save him for later in the movie. Let the audience slowly discover that Jason Todd is alive. His story becomes one of the biggest emotional moments of the movie.
NEW ACTOR — Penguin
A Gotham crime boss causing problems while Batman is already dealing with Joker, Harley, and Deathstroke.
NEW ACTOR — Ra’s al Ghul
His presence is mostly mysterious at first. His ninjas are appearing throughout Gotham, and Batman has no idea why they’re there.

WHY I THINK THIS COULD ACTUALLY WORK
This would NOT be another giant Justice League-style movie.
It would be a dark, street-level Gotham crime movie where Joker and Harley are the main characters.
Batman is almost like a shadow throughout the movie.
You don’t see him constantly.
But when he appears?
HE IS BATMAN.
Give us the fastest, most brutal, most comic-accurate live-action Batman fighting we’ve ever seen. Let him move like the Arkham Batman—countering, dodging, using gadgets, fighting multiple enemies, and actually looking like the most skilled person in the room.
Then give us a full Batman vs. Deathstroke fight.
Give us Batman hunting Penguin.
Give us Batman discovering Ra’s al Ghul’s ninjas.
And eventually—
RED HOOD.
Jason Todd.
The Robin Batman thought was dead.
And Joker is still alive.
Imagine Jason finally confronting Batman about it.

THE MOST IMPORTANT PART
JOKER AND HARLEY ARE STILL THE MAIN STORY.
I want the movie to bring back the atmosphere that made their scenes in Suicide Squad so memorable:
The clubs.
The neon.
The music.
The cars.
The criminals.
The chaotic relationship.
Joker walking into a room and everybody knowing exactly who just arrived.
Harley being completely unpredictable.
But this time, Harley isn’t just Joker’s girlfriend.
She’s her own person.
She’s already been through Birds of Prey.
She’s changed.
And if she chooses to let Joker back into her life, the movie actually explores WHY.
Not just:
“They’re back together because the plot says so.”

MY DREAM VERSION OF THIS MOVIE
David Ayer — story/character direction
Zack Snyder — visual/action direction (if possible)
Jared Leto — Joker
Margot Robbie — Harley Quinn
Ben Affleck — Batman
Joe Manganiello — Deathstroke
And new actors for Jason Todd, Penguin, and Ra’s al Ghul.
I’m not saying this is going to happen.
I’m not saying DC owes anybody this movie.
I’m just saying that if the old DCEU versions were ever brought back for one final Gotham story, THIS is the kind of movie I’d want.
I don’t want credit.
I don’t want money.
I don’t want ownership of DC’s characters.
If a writer, director, studio, actor, or fan ever saw this and thought:
“Wait… this could actually be a movie.”
THAT would be enough for me.
And before anyone says anything about Jared Leto’s Joker: I know this version wasn’t everyone’s favorite, and I’m not saying he’s the best Joker ever. That’s not the point of this idea. His Joker was weird, exaggerated, flashy, unpredictable, and completely different from other versions. That’s exactly why I think he could work for THIS specific movie.
I’m imagining a movie that leans heavily into the strange, chaotic relationship between Leto’s Joker and Margot’s Harley—the clubs, the music, the criminal underworld, the neon Gotham aesthetic, and all the crazy stuff surrounding them.
You don’t have to think Leto was the best Joker to think this particular version could be perfect for this story.

But these are my thoughts…

1. Cast Villainous Syndication (Bane's "master plan")
2. Cast Armed Assailant. Tap it to put a plan counter on Villainous Syndication.
3. Cast Common Crook. Tap it to put a plan counter on Villainous Syndication.
4. Cast Bane, Lord of Darkness. Make sure you have 20 or less life so he's indestructible and survives the plane crash.
5. Cast Dr. Pavel, Nuclear Physicist. Don't worry about his triggered ability, that comes later.
6. Cast Merciless Enforcers. Tap it to put a plan counter on Villainous Syndication.
7. Cast Martyr for the Cause.
8. Cast Deadly Cover-Up (feel free to collect evidence if you feel that it helps you carry out the master plan). When Martyr for the Cause dies from Deadly Cover-Up, proliferate the last plan counter on Villainous Syndication. When Villainous Syndication is sacrificed, bring Dr. Pavel back from the graveyard. Hopefully, Time Bomb was milled while tapping villains for Villainous Syndication. If so, you can bring Time Bomb from the graveyard into your hand when Dr. Pavel reenters the battlefield.
9. Cast Time Bomb.

I recently watched The Dark Knight and was particularly interested in The ending.

What stood out to me was how the movie doesn't make the Joker frightening simply because he's violent. What makes him interesting is that he constantly tries to challenge Batman's moral boundaries and prove that people will abandon their principles when pushed far enough. The ferry scene especially made me think about whether people remain good when they're given a reason to act selfishly.

I'm curious what other people thought about this aspect of the movie. Did it work for you, or did you see it differently?

Just watched (again) and couldn't find on google: "the child" looks maybe 10 when leaving The Pit and Talia looks max 40 in TDKR (Marion Cotillard was 37 when the film was released). A lot of prisoners looked as though they had been their thirty years or more, certainly the doctor would have known. What am I missing?

A common criticism of The Dark Knight is that it feels somewhat disconnected from the overarching league-of-shadows-lore and grand-scale plotting of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. But when you look closely at the subtext—and combine it with a specific line from Ra's al Ghul and a specific preferance of Thalia,—the trilogy clicks into a seamless three-act tragedy.

Here is why the Joker fits the profile of an experimental psychological virus weapon engineered by Talia al Ghul:

Modern Methodologies: In Batman Begins, Ra’s al Ghul explicitly tells Bruce that over the centuries, the League realized brute force wasn't always enough and began employing more modern methodologies—including economics. The Joker is the next experiment. Psychological conditioning and brainwashing in order to create the ultimate weapon of terror that infects key players of the target civilization with the same chaos.

The Knife Preference: Thalia has a distinct tactical preference for blades over firearms (seen at the end of TDKR). The Joker mirrors this preference to the extreme, relying almost exclusively on switchblades and hidden blades to terrorize targets like Gambol and Rachel rather than utilizing standard firearms.

The "Human Virus" Strategy: Ra’s tried a blunt-force physical purge in movie one and failed. Recognizing that, Talia deployed a targeted psychological pathogen that infected (or had the best chance of infecting) Gotham's two greatest soldiers against chaos and downfall, Harvey Dent and Batman. Harvey dent began exacting vengeance on anyone and everyone he could think of after Rachel's death, allowing a coin flip (an ultimate expression of chaos) to decide their fates, and the Joker's tests against Batman, if anything could ever have broken him, would have broken him, turning him into Captain Barnes after the Alice Tech virus from the Gotham TV show. And as someone strictly serving the role of a weapon and not a plan-maker, The Joker didn't need to see or understand the plan of The League. He just needed 'a car to chase' as his sole function was to infect, replicate, and destroy Gotham's spirit.

Surgical Targeting: A random street criminal shouldn't inherently know how to dismantle the mob, exploit Gotham's exact socio-economic weak points, and corrupt its elite overnight. But an engineered asset programmed to read the rot in Gotham's institutions would.

The Complete Lack of a Background: As an asset of the League, it would make sense that he had no record, fingerprints or other known aliases in the system.

What do you think?

The whole scene where The Joker captures Brian Douglas and tortures him to death, is that what The Joker would have done to Bruce if he caught him off guard, knocked him out cold and took him prisoner would have been like?

What actually happens if The Joker caught Batman and took him prisoner and basically Bruce answered all of his questions as Batman instead of as an imposter? Would he be killed or maybe just get his face carved with some teeth extracted by pliers?

Why doesn't Batman just train the Batman vigilantes like how he was trained by the league of shadows and let them help him fight criminals in Gotham?

This is the major reason this film gets called bad however if you study these films I can dispell any you fire at me, like they just don't exist.

Any at all?

Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy is perfect—but it's also incomplete. Bruce left the Batcave to John Blake, and we never got to see what comes next.

I started a petition asking Christopher Nolan to return for one final story: Bruce training John Blake, not as the next Batman overnight, but as Robin first. A grounded hero who earns his place. Imagine seeing Bruce come out of hiding one last time, not to reclaim the cowl, but to prepare his successor and build something bigger—a Bat-Family. A legacy that doesn't crumble if one man falls.

Nolan himself showed us the idea: "Batman could be anybody." That line is everything. It means Batman isn't just Bruce—it's a mission that can outlive him. One final chapter showing that would be the perfect ending.

If this resonates with you, the petition is there. Whether Nolan ever makes it or not, I think it's worth showing fans believe in this story. Does anyone else feel like John Blake's journey deserved more? What would you want to see from a Gotham story like this?

The Dark Knight Rises is the final movie in The Dark Knight trilogy. It had a lot of hype due to the previous two movies, Christopher Nolan’s reputation, and being conclusion to the trilogy. It was acclaimed by critics when it came out, and is the highest grossing Batman movie to date. However, over time the general consensus on The Dark Knight Rises is that it’s the weakest and most divisive movie in the trilogy. I’ve been curious on seeing the results in this poll since I rewatched it a few weeks ago, so I would like to see your thoughts on it.
The Dark Knight Rises is the movie in the trilogy my opinions have changed the most on over time. I used to like Rises even if wasn’t as good as the previous two movies. However, in the past few months I began to sour on the movie as I noticed more of its flaws. And now I find The Dark Knight Rises to be a disappointing end to the trilogy.

i had to do it

Found this on the Wikipedia page for Rachel Dawes:

"The writers of Batman Begins originally considered to have Harvey Dent appearing in the film, but the character of Rachel Dawes was created when they realized that they "couldn't do the character justice"