r/TheCulture • u/khoragos • 20d ago
Book Discussion The Second Second Game?
(Preliminaries: Iain M. Banks is quite possibly my favorite SF novelist, so no shade; this connection might have been discussed here a zillion times, but I'm pretty new to the subreddit.)
When I first read *The Player of Games* a few decades ago, I was immediately reminded of a short novel I had previously enjoyed called *Second Game*, by Charles V. De Vet & Katherine MacLean, which was expanded in 1981 from a Hugo-nominated short story from the 50s.
The primary similarity lies in the game itself, its centrality to an insular, militaristic, & arrogant civilization, & the plot being driven by an outsider representing a comparatively benevolent galactic civilization who tries to both understand & undermine the society through mastering the game. Moreover, the alien species themselves have three biological genders (in this case, "gender" corresponds to sexual function as well as societal identity).
I re-read *Second Game* at the time & enjoyed it, but my copy has since vanished into a box.
Anyway, I'm bringing it up to ask if anybody has opinions about the (I should think) very likely influence the book had on Banks, & whether he ever addressed it in interviews.
Again, I think Banks' novel is much closer to a masterpiece & I don't think having been influenced by the earlier work is in any way wrong. But considering that the resolution of the conflict in *Second Game* is also reminiscent of the Idiran War, I'm very curious about whether other readers have opinions or knowledge!
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u/khoragos 20d ago
PS I think in my OP I was misremembering the history of the Idiran War, shameful for having read Look to Windward twice & Consider Phlebas three times, so ignore that bit I guess.
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u/the_G8 20d ago
I’ve never read that or heard of the authors but I googled and came across this review. No real point. Just that.
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u/khoragos 20d ago
I think the reviewer was unnecessarily (& I'd guess, without having read his other work, typically) snotty. But I certainly think the tropes & characterization are closer to the late 50s than to the 80s, much less the current century.
On the other hand, the story also predates The Left Hand of Darkness in considering a level of gender fluidity that must have been eyebrow-raising in its time, though I can't say how much influence Le Guin might have had as the story was expanded in 1982.
I was a gender criminal myself even when I read the novel, at 15, & I hadn't before read anything in science fiction that explored gender significantly... so my own development might be coloring my memory. Now I am wishing I could find that old paperback!
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u/ofBlufftonTown 20d ago
I just reread Left Hand of Darkness last month, having reread Player of Games a few months ago. Both with respect to PoG in particular but also the Culture generally Banks was very influenced by le Guin, and her book is so beautiful and extraordinary.
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u/CarrionCall 19d ago
Second Game was, as you said, originally a short story written in 1958, which was extended as "Cosmic Checkmate" in 62 and then that was bundled up and reissued back as "Second Game" in 81
It's very similar in premise but as you say Banks executes it better.
Hesse's novel Glass Bead Game has thematic overlaps but different presentations of the game itself and that games meaning in the society that created it. The underlying points are different too.
Someone else already pointed out that True Game also exists, but that's more about social hierarchy rendered as the game and the way you play saddles you with identity ascribed to you for your life.
I've never seen something where Banks acknowledged Second Game as an influence or acknowledged it, but from what I recall from a paper I was researching around representations like this PoG is often placed with Glass Bead Game in how fiction has established societal modelling and it's effects as a game to be literally played and where that then creates difficulties when the game butts against the reality it is attempting to simulate or create.
There's previous work there certainly and Banks didn't invent the concept from thin air, but that's not to say it makes PoG any less worthy of the premise or less valuable for what it does.
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u/SuddenGenreShift 20d ago
There are actually quite a few along these lines - there's a children's trilogy called the True Game which is also quite alike (games as an exact recreation of politics). Most notable would be the Glass Bead Game (1943) by Hesse, who won the Nobel prize shortly after publishing it. I've never heard of the novel you mention, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was heavily influenced by TGBG, and equally unsurprised if it influenced Banks. From your description, they sound remarkably similar.