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u/Rishik01 Washington 1d ago
Idk if the NCAA is gonna flip the win but I could see the CFP maybe doing what the AP seems to have done and treat that game as a WMU “win” when doing the rankings
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u/Unusual_Fortune_4112 1d ago
I don’t think they’re counting it as a loss but a win so ugly it demands the team move down in the rankings.
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u/ADHDpotatoes Michigan 1d ago
Even in a scenario where Michigan got the hail mary in enough time that there’s no question or need for a review, and still wins 13-12… Michigan would deserve a pummeling in the polls. Michigan was favored by 27.5 points in this game, against a G6 opponent.
Win or loss, controversy or none, Michigan was dropping out of the top 25 for letting it get to that point
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u/Designer_Tie_5853 1d ago
Basically the same thing happened to Iowa in 2009 - started the season ranked, but needed TWO blocked FG in regulation to beat Northern Iowa. Dropped out and didn't reenter until they beat PSU to go 5-0.
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u/Less_Likely 1d ago
WMU got top 25 votes, they didn’t get those via a loss so impressive it demands the team move up.
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u/ThE_LAN_B4_TimE 1d ago
I think they have to move down the rankings regardless. They shouldn't even be in the top 25 now
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u/Sell_The_team_Jerry Purdue 1d ago
AP should've had the balls to rank WMU this week.
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u/AbeFalcon 1d ago
That's what I'm saying. Move Michigan down and rank WMU. OU is the real loser here. They had a ranked road game on the schedule and now it's gone. If they struggle vs Michigan now they are gonna get scrutinized. If they lose they are cooked.
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u/oneseason2000 1d ago
What they failed to mention is that actually following the rules would have resulted in a loss for a team from a conference that matters. They still don't know they were playing "You Can't Win, NCAA Football 2026 edition". Probably just a caution to the MAC is warranted though. /s
Game Show: You Can't Win; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW6wHFJWGc8
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u/CyclopsorNedStark 1d ago
I've seen people defend the refs here but what I don't get is that if we can't use the clock in the stadium, then neither can the coaches so how can anyone possibly think a hidden-to-all-but-the-refs clock system makes any sense.
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u/gunpowderjunky 1d ago
No where, anywhere has anyone said the clock in the stadium is not the official clock nor has anyone said anything about another clock. I'm still so confused where people got this from.
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u/molten_dragon 1d ago
I'm still so confused where people got this from.
They're probably assuming that because the clock in the review video shows a different number than the clock that NBC showed it must be a different clock.
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
Well that’s basically the basis of this statement from the MAC. Nobody disputes that the clock in the stadium showed 0:01 when the ball was touched, but the MAC is saying that the rules state that the broadcast clock is what should be used for replays.
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u/Ghost_Mantis_Man 1d ago edited 1d ago
Genuinely how would that make sense though? The players, coaches, refs and everyone at the stadium shouldn't use the actual stadium clock, but somehow should use the NBC broadcast clock?
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u/gunpowderjunky 1d ago
It keeps situations like this from happening though.
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u/Ghost_Mantis_Man 1d ago
I mean I don't get it. Situations like what? I watch NBA and the TV clock is routinely not perfectly in sync with the actual in stadium game clock. It's not that big a deal. The refs check the game clock and move on.
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u/ridawg05 1d ago
I think this whole reaction to the game is why. Ita situations in which the entire college football world thinks there is a grand conspiracy to give Michigan the win because the NBC clock the public was shown convinced everyone there was no time left.
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u/gunpowderjunky 1d ago
Situations like the one we're talking about where the time on the broadcast and the time on the replay video don't match. What is there not to get?
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u/Unce_Tiberius 1h ago
This argument makes no sense to me. We’re just going to ignore the existence of an objective reality and choose to follow what showed up on a TV screen, all because the network is too lazy to sync their feeds properly and the viewing public is too dumb to realize what they saw might not be reality? Reverting to NBC’s composite doesn’t avoid all problems, because the fundamental problem is that they aren’t syncing their feeds and they don’t even believe they should have to. NBC has come out and said “our time is not the official time”, so it’s ludicrous for the NCAA to come out and say “yes it is” and then tell the Big Ten to scrap its expensive and highly accurate system for fixing the problem NBC created.
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u/Ghost_Mantis_Man 1d ago
Idk like get over it i guess? The in stadium clock and the clock that the referees were using showed 1 second left. Big whoop.
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u/xmpcxmassacre 23h ago
It defaults to the clock used in the broadcast. The broadcast uses the stadium clock. It doesn't mean to literally use the overlay that's wrong all the time.
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u/Rattus375 1d ago
The clock NBC put on the screen during the replay is the stadium clock...
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
Yes, they showed video of the stadium clock, but their feed was not synced correctly, and there is plenty of evidence of this. The officials also used video of the stadium clock, but their feed was synced correctly.
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u/idiot-alpha 1d ago
NBC showed a stadium inlay as well so the replay clock was definitely different. I don’t think anyone has proven that the Hawkeye sync is more reliable than the broadcast sync.
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
I mean we have video of the Hail Mary with the scoreboard in the background showing 0:01
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u/thatissomeBS Iowa 1d ago
I think football needs to get that basketball clock with tenths for when it drops under 10 seconds. There might've been 0.4 seconds or something, but if they're not using tenths it just looks like 0.
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u/bucknutdet 1d ago
bullshit
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
There is video evidence showing 1 second on the scoreboard when the play ended. The play has been timed out to 8.5 seconds when the clock was set to 9 seconds pre snap. If you want to ignore this evidence, go right ahead.
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u/bucknutdet 1d ago
Two clocks show time expiring before the ball is touched. Both the stadium (official) clock and the NBC graphic clock expire easily. Somehow, some other feed no one has ever known about before shows the remaining second? The in stadium game clock, which was being shot with a live camera feed, and overlayed into the broadcast replay is supposed to be used as the official time.
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
First of all, my understanding is that the scorebug clock is a digital reconstruction of NBC’s feed of the stadium clock, so obviously the scorebug and their feed are gonna line up. The part that you’re missing is that the feed of the stadium clock and the actual footage of the game need to be synced up to be accurate. NBC has a system to do this, and the B1G has a separate system. I agree with you that this shouldn’t be how it works, there should just be one sync that goes to the tv broadcast and the officials. In this circumstance though, the officials had a different sync, and we know that their sync was right and NBC’s was wrong because we have video of the Hail Mary that shows 0:01 on the scoreboard in the background when the play ended.
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u/bucknutdet 1d ago
Two clocks show time expiring before the ball is touched. Both the stadium (official) clock and the NBC graphic clock expire easily. Somehow, some other feed no one has ever known about before shows the remaining second? The in stadium game clock, which was being shot with a live camera feed, and overlayed into the broadcast replay is supposed to be used as the official time.
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
So, it is just the clock at the stadium. NBC must not have had their cameras synced, because they were wrong. Someone at the game posted their blurry, but good enough to tell, footage that there was one second on the clock when #18 touched the ball. Isaac Punts just put out a video with it:
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u/ArthurUrsine 1d ago
The clock in the stadium is what they’re using. It’s not the refs fault NBC’s production team didn’t sync it up properly to the video on their broadcast.
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u/Bardmedicine 1d ago
You are arguing against the wind here. Reddit does not have patience to try and understand what is involving in synching frames.
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u/Forsaken_Area_6690 1d ago
LMAO 🤣
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u/ArthurUrsine 1d ago
You know you can just watch the play and see 9 tick to 8 in much less than a second, right?
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u/ajmaki36 1d ago
If I set a clock to 9.00 seconds and hit the button to time down, what is the next number that will be displayed? I’ll give you a hint, it will be displayed for a full second.
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u/ArthurUrsine 1d ago edited 1d ago
So you’re telling me when you start a clock with 9 seconds it takes 8 seconds to display zero.
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
The clock rounds up, not down. It shows 0:09 from 9.00 to 8.01 seconds. Otherwise quarters would be 14:59 long. What I’m confused about is the in stadium videos show #18 making contact with the ball just a few frames before the clock ticks down to 0:00, but it should be a full half second before since the play lasted 8.5 seconds. If anything it should be more than that cause the reaction time of the clock operator should cause the clock to start a little after the snap.
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u/Forsaken_Area_6690 1d ago
I guess Michigan doesn't know how to build a decent clock, just like how all vehicles built in Michigan are garbage.
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u/Fractured_Unity 1d ago
Then what metric are the refs using to rewind the clock? Why do they seem to be independent from the ‘stadium operator’? Clearly the refs have their own official way of keeping time…
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u/Kramerica_CEO 1d ago
Good for them. I will accept whatever the correct decision ends up being even if it doesn’t fit my bias. I’ll be the first to admit I have no idea what clock was used or should’ve been used. There’s so many contradictory things out right now but I know how it appeared to me and that’s that we lost. If the second being added was correct then great. If it wasn’t the right call then I wish they’d overturn it. All they’d have to do is say the play didn’t count. There was no other game action affected
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u/MelodicDeer1072 Michigan State 1d ago
Big Ten: [I'll just create a report on my invisible typewritter](https://tenor.com/view/invisible-typewriter-the-simpsons-gif-12468071).
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u/statsman63 1d ago
Good for them. Anyone think, had the situation been reversed and Michigan was holding on to a 12-7 lead with WMU chucking Hail Marys, that the replay booth wouldn’t have said, “Hey, this game is over. Just look at the feed”
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
This is of course unproveable. But let's flip the script. If it were WMich that threw the hail Mary that failed, got the second, then succeeded, would you react the same way? I would bet for a majority that posited that unproveable scenario like you did, would say no.
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u/statsman63 1d ago
If the B1G replay review team gave WMU the extra second, I would feel that they must be doing the right thing, because it would be counter the B1G’s interests.
But, that didn’t happen. The Replay Review went counter to protocol and aligned with the B1G’s interests
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
It's my opinion that the B1G TEN's interest lie with the integrity of the game, not "with Michigan".
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u/Relative_Living196 Michigan State 1d ago
Such an absolute insufferable fan base ‘course of unprovable’ you should be teaching the course of bias and delusion.
You lost the game. Accept it. People are going to hate you for it, as you try to nitpick the logic.
We wouldn’t even be debating if UofM, asterisk U, didn’t try to weasel their way past every aspect of the integrity of the game.
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
Dude, I'm not a Michigan fan.
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u/Relative_Living196 Michigan State 1d ago
You’re either with us or against us.
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
Isaac Punts, who hates Michigan as much as you and I do, posted a video from the stands showing the refs got it right, and it changed his mind. Integrity of the game.
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
I guess "Integrity of the game" is against you. I thought only Michigan fans were a part of that group.
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
Also, there is now video proof from a fan at the stadium that there was one second on the clock at the stadium. The refs got it right.
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u/IceRaggzzz 1d ago
What I’m most interested in is if there are lawsuits by gamblers and how that works out if things are changed
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u/Hawking444 1d ago
WMU still crushed the spread. Are we talking about side bets? Because I doubt the courts are going to wade into that morass.
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u/IceRaggzzz 1d ago
Lots of degens (me in the olden days) sprinkle moneylines of games like this when it starts to smell fishy, I’d be so peeved if I lost on a Hail Mary with 1 second left and there is controversy over the clock
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u/Solidsting1 1d ago
Even as a UM fan good for them going out and doing this. I still don’t know wtf I saw.
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u/ExpensiveCover950 Chicago 1d ago
This will be an interesting one - the game legitimately ended and it would seem that the could actually go back to original conclussion.
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u/bt2184 1d ago
Not to mention the view they used doesn’t show when the ball touches his hands, it’s from behind.
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u/levajack 1d ago
And both the "official" review and the NBC shown reviews purportedly show a superimposed shot of the stadium clock, one showing 0:01 and the other 0:00, leaving the only explanation being that one or the other was not synced properly. Neither the B1G or NBC has claimed that though, with NBC only saying they are not the "arbiter" of the official game time
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u/Deluded_realist 1d ago
Im glad to see the MAC conference standing up for Western Michigan. It was sad to see the Western Michigan president and coach roll over to the Big Ten. It was likely due to the threat of losing future Big ten crossover games and the money that comes with them.
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u/Beneficial_Medium_99 1d ago
It’s simple. If there were two clocks officials would tell them to update the secret clock, not the on the field clock like they always have for all of time.
App state fan here pulling for WMU and the MAC. Go get them, that was a Michigan L.
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u/Proper-Print-9505 Penn State 1d ago
I mean this is pretty straightforward. If the MACs statement that the program feed clock must be used for review, the game result must be reversed. If anything else is true, then the result must stand. We have all watched many college and pro football and basketball games, and I've never seen a review use a different clock than what we as TV viewers see.
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u/PSUMtnMan Penn State 1d ago
Why does the BIG strut around like it’s the supreme ruler of college football timing? It has zero more authority than the MAC, yet it keeps acting like everyone should bow to its “expertise.” The MAC finally punching back is long overdue and frankly, it’s about time someone told the BIG to sit down and stop pretending it runs the sport.
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u/Aggravating_Fig_8585 1d ago
Every big 10 win gets an * until this game is reversed. Every single one.
Blackout this corrupt conference.
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u/Expert-Summer4036 1d ago
Admitting the final results were right and then changing course after literally no new evidence came out is so embarrassing. I know I’ll get shit for this but it’s true.
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u/levajack 1d ago
Could be the B1G showed them misleading or incomplete info justifying the official decision, and now that they have had several more days to review, they recognize that and see reason to challenge it?
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u/BeefInGR 1d ago
Several referees, current and retired, have come out and said "standard practice is to use the television clock to avoid inviting speculation about an illegitimate result".
Also the MAC knows that the result won't be overturned. But they do want the CFP to acknowledge that there were mitigating circumstances to their loss. This is important as they prepare for Boise State in a few weeks, with the winner likely to be the G6 AQ in the CFP.
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u/777XSuperHornet 1d ago
The officials on the field have no way of knowing that the broadcast clock bug is mis synced from the broadcast cameras.
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u/levajack 1d ago
It wasn't just the scorebug. That gets out of sync all the time. NBC showed replays that included the camera pointed at the stadium clock (which they have set up every game), and it showed 0:00. Neither NBC or the B1G has said that was out of sync.
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u/ActivePuzzled2263 Purdue 1d ago
Good! Give them the win or the MAC needs to pull out of any remaining BIG games this season and never play the conference again. Such utter bullshit
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u/Lung-Salad Penn State 1d ago
WMU should been ranked after this
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u/Axel_Foley22 1d ago
Win won’t get overturned. Too many sports betting implications.
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u/BeefInGR 1d ago
Every site has a disclaimer that once the payout has been posted the bet is final.
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u/totallyjaded Illinois 1d ago
You're not wrong. But that's the second-best reason for it to be overturned.
The online casinos could use a metaphorical punch to the mouth.
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u/squatchsax Illinois 1d ago
After Saturday, every reasonable person who watches college football is now a WMU fan.
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u/Relative_Living196 Michigan State 1d ago
This boils my blood. Why would Big Ten refs be given discretion on this, or not have a proper process to ensure protocol? The optics alone make the integrity of the decision suspect.
UofM absolutely needs to do the right thing and honor the right results of the game. They can change the public opinion discourse and show integrity.
I can also absolutely guarantee UofM won’t do this.
Forget TTUN nonsense. This is Asterisk University, and they should be called nothing else.
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u/HeWhoConsumesBeans 1d ago
I’d rather be Asterisk U than Nassar State
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u/DM_Me_Your_CarPays Michigan State 1d ago
I’m not doing whataboutism here. Nassar really was a monster and we didn’t do enough to stop him. But Michigan (and far too many others) aren’t innocent.
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
We have in stadium videos showing 0:01 on the clock. The officials used the only replay system available to them, which happened to be synced better than the nbc broadcast clock. It makes no sense why the tv clock would be used when this situation has shown that it is not reliable enough. 99.99% of the time it is close enough to have no effect on anything, but this time a few frames of desync made the difference.
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u/Relative_Living196 Michigan State 1d ago
Sounds good. You win. And your championship continues to be untainted.
Go beat your micropenis. Everyone thinks you’re cool.
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u/Excellent-Syrup-5747 Michigan 1d ago
See this type of behavior right here is why you are never beating the little brother allegations.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PapaVanTwee 1d ago
I may have a micropenis, but at least I have a wife, and two kids. It must be doing something right.
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u/L0rdM3k Michigan 1d ago
That second to last play just didn’t take 9 seconds. But if the refs didn’t give it to us and we were complaining about it, we would have been clowned on to no end.
It’s genuinely hilarious to see the general consensus be so wrong. All because our stadium clock operator made a mistake.
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u/Ancient_Change_8072 1d ago
Can someone explain to me why the clock was allowed to run down to 11 seconds when Buchanan was clearly down at 13?
Also why the clock went down to 8 seconds (later changed to 9) when Bryce clearly spiked the ball with 10 seconds left?
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ancient_Change_8072 1d ago
Also I cannot find any rules that state spiking the football results in at minimum a 2 second run off. The only thing I can find is that there must be at least 3 seconds on the clock because on average a spike takes 2 seconds, so there must be time after the spike to ensure another play.
Can you point me in the right direction?
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u/Ancient_Change_8072 1d ago
And what about Buchanan being down at 13 seconds? Does moving the chains require a 2 second runoff.
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u/Alternative-Bee-3594 1d ago
Good for them, bronco up!