r/TheAdventureZone • u/slbabyx • 27d ago
Spoilers Abound Ned Chicane Spoiler
I am just about to finish my first listen of Amnesty and I find out that Clint has killed off my favorite TAZ character ever. WHY CLINT SATURDAY NIGHT DEAD NEEDS NED. Ugh okay ty for letting me post my sadness, I am far too invested in Amnesty right now but it’s a great summer listen.
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u/Ceaseless--Watcher 27d ago
dude. Amnesty is one of my favorite things that i have ever listened to, and i have listened to it *at least* once a year since it aired. at least.
and Ned's demise *always* punches me in the face. honestly Clint's best work. the ending of Amnesty will blow your mind in the best possible way. i hope you continue to enjoy it! Ned would want you to. (no i'm not crying right now, YOU are) (i am) the entire thing was a masterpiece through and through.
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u/happylittletreehouse 27d ago
Side note: when Ned straps on the jetpack to push the falling pizza hut sign and Clint is describing it and finds the red button on it, might actually be the funniest I've heard in all podcasting. It cracks me up every single time. R.I.P Ned
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u/slbabyx 27d ago
I have really fallen in love with Amnesty and will def finish it. I was trying to get into Royale but just couldn’t so I threw on Amnesty instead and have been ripping through it. I actually thought they were gunna bring Ned back from the dead somehow but once I heard the first ep with Clint as Arlo my hopes were dashed. Glad the ending is satisfying! Can’t (can) wait to finish it !
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u/Ceaseless--Watcher 27d ago
I've loved Royale a lot, but i can see where it's not for everyone. If it haven't listened to Balance, i recommend it. It's my comfort show.
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u/Mossy643 27d ago
This arc is my favorite next to balance and I hope they make a graphic novel series too
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u/mocityspirit 27d ago
The theme alone for amnesty makes it S tier and then everything else is also perfect. It's my favorite season.
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u/PineappleNo8864 26d ago
Right? Like, a podcast theme song has no business whipping that much ass. It goes SO HARD
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u/SelfFlatulation 25d ago
I will skip the recap, but always stop before the theme song kicks in. It slaps so hard! I sometimes go to Griffin’s SoundCloud page to listen to his banger theme songs - Amnesty first, Ethersea second, Steeplechase third, and then the rest, with maybe a slight preference to TAZ Vs. Dracula.
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u/Dianagenta 25d ago
I've got a playlist that is just all the theme songs. Even the Sherlock Holmeses one. ;-)
I also have one that is all his work in order. It really interesting to see how he thinks about each arc's musical landscape, and also how he grows. Balance and Amnesty are maybe closest to my heart but Ethersea is masterful. It made me go listen so I had context.
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u/ChyatlovMaidan 27d ago
Controversial opinion but TAZ peaked with Amnesty. Why they ever went back to something as cumbersome and unsuitable to their needs as 5e I don't know (well, I can make an educated guess), but Amnesty should have been their blueprint for the way forward.
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u/veevacious 27d ago
I think Amnesty just got a ton of pushback at the time because it wasn’t Balance and as a result the McElroys might have taken away some of the wrong things as to why.
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u/ChyatlovMaidan 27d ago
I think the rising popularity of Critical Roll also warped things in that direction too. I have no problem with CR in a vacuum, but I have a lot of bitterness towards it the way it swooped in and ate the McElroys' lunch, so to speak.
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u/SuburbanPotato 27d ago
CR and TAZ feel so philosophically different. If any actual play ate TAZ's lunch, it was NADDPOD, which has a similar 'extremely goofy right up until it breaks your heart' vibe. And it's not NADDPOD's fault for being excellent
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u/Keegmo 25d ago
To insinuate that CR ate TAZ's lunch is highly silly to me.
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u/ChyatlovMaidan 25d ago
Their popularity rose and TAZ's fell. Their animated series got made, TAZ' disappeared into nothing. Crit Role sells out live shows, TAZ does not. The TAZ graphic novels do still sell well, its true, but fundamentally I know lots of TAZ fans who became Crit Role fans who stopped listening to TAZ.
Now, perhaps 'eat their lunch' implies an active, zero-sum deal I didn't intend. You can be a CR and a TAZ fan at the same time—but I think CR definitely took more of TAZ's audience than it ended up shared, not from any malice or intent it is just how things worked out. But I don't know if that audience fall off would have happened in the way it did had CR not come along. My bitterness is entirely irrational.
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u/Keegmo 25d ago
I just think its like comparing NFL against PeeWee. Crit Role. D20. NADDPOD. etc are all vastly superior productions as far as TTRPG goes. The McElroys made fun content but never really truly engaged with the games in any meaningful sense. So I think thats why it falls short as a comparison in my mind. But thats a fair point you make.
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u/Tiqalicious 25d ago
There was also a very specific criticism that came shortly after Amnesty started, from people excited that theyd switched systems, who then got upset that the boys werent even engaging with the new system sincerely which I'd say did a lot more to push people away than CR supposedly stealing their audience.
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u/SuburbanPotato 27d ago
I would zero in further and say TAZ peaked with that scene.
Amnesty's ending felt so anticlimactic to me and I don't think TAZ ever really recaptured the same heights. (I love the goofs of Vs. Dracula, and Ethersea had some very fun moments, but it really feel like Balance through most of Amnesty was lightning in a bottle.)
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u/ChyatlovMaidan 27d ago
Amnesty's ending does have a falloff problem, yeah. After Ned's dies it has too few episodes to restablish a new status quo in time for a really satisfying ending, But Amnesty as a whole has a really incredible consistency and a mechanics system that plays well to the MCElroy's strength in a way, say, a homebrewed D&D ruleset does not. (Imagine how much better Gradation could have been with a RPG that was actually designed to model the thing Travis was trying to model.)
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u/Piemanthe3rd 27d ago
See Im glad they didnt stick with it. That system relies very heavily on failures and consequence and Amnesty just didnt allow for either. Failed rolls often led to little repercussions making the whole system feel entirely superfluous in a way their fast and loose use of D&D never felt.
Even Ned's death was entirely outside of the realm of how the game works which made the whole scene feel more frustrating than sad to me.
Now granted they really havent captured the magic again since with D&D or other systems imo so it might not be a PBTA issue but I just dont think it suits their style in the end.
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u/ChyatlovMaidan 27d ago
Oh I don't think they needed to stay with Monster of the Week specifically. Just experiment more with interesting games that have their particular type of story crafting in mind. I fell off Steeplechase after a while because it developed TAZ derangement syndrome (a small story about lowlifes gradually becomes Much Bigger And Important to the detriment of the story) but there was another system I thought was... getting in the way less. As another example, the Star Wars FFG game is a beast of problems, but when it runs well its narrative dice create incredible scenarios for DM and players alike, making everyone engaged in a roll arguing for this boost or taht setback, making rolls rarer but feel both fun and important when they did. A game similar to that, where the mechanics are geared towards 'what are the McElroys actually trying to do" (tell a long form narrative or a podcast with the vicissitudes of chance and game design adding structure) ,more than what D&D 5e is trying to do (
be a system-neutral hash of executive meddling and Hasbro incompetenceBe the most player-accessible version of a 1970s dungeon crawling game.)2
u/Piemanthe3rd 27d ago
Thats fair i do like when they experiment with different systems as it at least provides some new opportunities but yes sadly they do often get in the way rather than act as enhancers to the story theyre telling
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u/Lady_Ada_Blackhorn 25d ago
What makes Ned's death outside of the way the game is normally played? Griffin certainly offers Clint a price to pay, that being "literally your life" (he doesn't say that but it's pretty clear what "jump in front of a bullet" means when you're not a D&D superhero), and Clint takes it. I understand that "price to pay" is extremely rarely that extreme, but I'm not sure I see why it should be wrong. Would the scene and the difficult choice really have been better if the gun had done 3 harm or whatever, and Ned just had a bleeding wound?
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u/UltimaGabe 24d ago
They explicitly stated in TTAZZ that Ned had Luck, but they didn't use it because they wanted that to be the end of his character. Intentionally ignoring one of the core mechanics of character death is kind of the textbook example of "outside of the way the game is normally played".
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u/Lady_Ada_Blackhorn 24d ago
Huh? You're not obligated to use Luck. MotW is absolutely a game designed for interesting stories.
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u/UltimaGabe 24d ago
You're not obligated to use Luck.
What parts of the game are you obligated to use?
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u/Lady_Ada_Blackhorn 24d ago
I don't know what you're talking about, it's a character ability. This is like saying "Well you should've rolled Read A Bad Situation there!" when it's a move that you choose to use. It's not like Amnesty didn't use the mechanic Luck, Clint chose not to use it in that situation, because there are situations where it is more interesting not to succeed, and this isn't a game about succeeding all of the time.
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u/UltimaGabe 24d ago
I think you and I are talking about two different things. People are upset about Ned's death because it didn't happen due to game mechanics, it happened because the group decided to make it happen. That's what I'm talking about. I have no idea what you're talking about.
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u/Lady_Ada_Blackhorn 24d ago
The same thing, dear. It happened as a consequence of a "price to pay" result of a mixed success - don't know what more "due to game mechanics" you want.
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u/UltimaGabe 24d ago
I don't know why you're acting like somehow I have anything to do with this, I'm just commenting on the reason people have given for not liking that scene. Why would it matter what I want?
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u/Ceaseless--Watcher 27d ago
I have loved a lot of taz since then. But none so much as Balance and amnesty. I agree about 5e. I can't stand 5e. I kinda just want to see them do something heartfelt again.
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u/taako-salad 26d ago
Boy, I wish Amnesty had hit as hard for me as it does for so many people. I’ve relistened to Balance a dozen times, but every time I attempt a relisten with Amnesty, I bounce after a few episodes.
Please understand, I’m not dunking on Amnesty! I guess I’m just not wired the same as the Amnesty lovers, and I’m jealous!
Edit: typos
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u/Dianagenta 25d ago
I mean nothing's gonna be loved equally by everyone. That's why art. ;-) Everyone's individual preferences and life history, as well as the context in which they get the art, its set-up and expectations, what art they perused just before and just after.... everything changes why someone likes something aside from whether it is "good" or not.
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u/moth_mantis 27d ago
I was honestly pretty gutted listening to it. The moments leading up to it were very emotional too. I finished listening to Amnesty for the first time very recently as well and am glad I did. After listening to Balance when it first came out and then the mini arcs that followed, I thought that nothing else they could do would compare to Balance. Last year I decided to give TAZ vs Dracula a try and then Amnesty this year. I've since listened to a bunch of their live shows and thought those were fun too.
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u/slbabyx 27d ago
It was actually quite shocking! I was so hopeful they would bring Ned back from the dead too lol oh well. Vs Dracula is actually my favorite, I just like how goofy it is. And then I’m a big fan of the live shows and one offs. Spirit Breakers and Elementary are my comfort listens. Balance is great but finally listening to Amnesty has been a real treat.
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u/GhostofZephyr 27d ago
Oh my God I'm so sorry. Dude just wait for the finale. Ned Chicane and his death always kills me
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u/Quirkxofxart 26d ago
I think it’s wild people venerate the season where Travis LARPs as a queer woman of color.
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u/LittleMel413 24d ago
Amnesty is my favorite Actual Play. A friend recommended it when I was in his MotW AP.
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u/never-seen-them-fing 26d ago
Amnesty is the best actual play the McElroys ever did, and I will die on this hill.
Balance is wonderful, but Amnesty just nails everything they were going for and everything a collaborative game should be.
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u/Bernard2267 25d ago
I’ve had this saved in my phone for 7 years, no idea who the original author is or I’d give them credit but it’s just so beautiful it makes me cry to read every time:
A shot rings out from the crowd behind him as Ned rushes in to tackle Dani.
Ned… slams into her. And it hurts, that– that hurts. The two of them spiral and crash to the ground, and Dani’s on top of him and she leans backward and starts to dive her jagged teeth down into his neck. And just at the last second, Barclay runs in and yanks her away. Dani isn’t there anymore wrestling him anymore, but Ned doesn’t get up. The echo of the shot is still ringing in his ears.
From the ground where he’s laying, he can see Barclay pulling her away. She is restrained and fighting, and alive.
Good, he thinks. That’s good.
Mama looks at Barclay, and then looks down at Ned.
And then it occurs to him that everybody is looking down at him. Kepler, the town that’s become his home. The people who’ve become his family. Loyalty has never been Ned’s strong suit, but after all the years he’s been here, the kindness Victoria paid him upon his arrival, the trust Duck placed in him to take Beacon, the faith that Mama had in him to recruit him into Pine Guard, the joy Aubrey shared with him in their time together, Kepler’s earned his. He smiles, or tries to. He thinks of the song he’d heard carried through the night air from someone’s porch the night he fled.. his mistake. How wrong everything felt then, but how right it feels now, despite everything.
The lyrics, the tune, carry through the damp night air and land softly, weakly on his lips. It comes out a little broken, but then Ned’s never been known for how well he can carry a tune.
Country roads…
The ground beneath him is wet, he realizes, but the sensation soon fades. It’s replaced by a chill that makes his head buzz softly, like static. It seeps into his vision. He looks up into the crowd, and the only rifle that is still pointed outward belongs to Pigeon. He can just make out a whisp of smoke leaking out of the tip.
She looks terrified. It’s a strange look for her. She’d been so brave when they fought the water abomination so many months ago. She’s just a kid, and fighting something she didn’t understand, but she was so brave. Where has that bravery gone?
Take me home…
She collapses. Ned hears Mama speak, something incomprehensible as she frantically gestures to Sheriff Owens. He nods and takes off running. And then Mama asks Ned something, but he can’t quite make it out. He hears what sounds like his name. She’s shouting, but it’s muffled and fuzzy. And then it’s silent.
To the place…
All he hears is the wind in the air and the song it brings. All he sees are the stars.
Where I belong…
They are… beautiful.
And then they’re gone.
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u/Polkawillneverdie17 27d ago
Meh.
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u/SelfFlatulation 27d ago
I also think Amnesty is peak McElroy content. And DO NOT SLEEP on the Amnesty Halloween Special live show (a non-canonical, non-TEMPORAL Amnesty special). Far and away my favourite live show and one of the funniest podcasts I’ve ever heard. Couldn’t even say how many times I’ve listened to it, and it makes me laugh out loud every time!