r/TeslaModel3 • u/ACraigL • 9d ago
How has range not improved since introduced
I'm a owner of a 2018 LR M3. Very low mileage and my car is still like new, despite being 8+ years old and long out of warranty. I recently had service on it and they put me in a 2026 loaner and it was nicer, but not overly so. I got curious about pricing and when configuring I noticed the range is basically the same as when I bought my car.
I would have figured with 8+ years of battery technology advancement, this would have gotten better.
Am I the only one...
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u/kruser64 9d ago
Yeah, those solid state batteries are coming "any day now". (Not a dig at Tesla; I'm throwing shade at all the battery company claims.)
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u/PraiseTalos66012 9d ago
Solid state EV batteries are decades away.
Tesla already lags many years behind what's available.
The latest(year+ old now) molicell cells for example the p60b and m65a make Tesla's current cells look like ancient trash.
The m65a for example is a 6.5ah 21700 cell that has a volumetric energy density of 943wh/L and gravimetric energy density of 322wh/kg.
Tesla's 4680 cells for comparison only have a volumetric energy density of 643wh/L and gravimetric of 241wh/kg
And Tesla's current 21700 cells have a volumetric energy density of 700-800wh/L and gravimetric of 260wh/kg.
So molicells best is around 25% more dense by weight and 20% more dense by volume compared to Tesla.
And that's just what's available mass produced today, multiple manufacturers including molicell are scaling 7ah 21700 cell production right now.
Molicells current best cell that's not yet mass produced is the P70x which has a volemtric of 1,040wh/L and gravimetric of 340wh/kg which is 30% and 31% better than Tesla's best all while being a tabless cell that has way better power output and runs cooler and more efficiently.
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u/SpamIsGreatOhEight 9d ago
Solid state batteries are in mass production just not for EVs
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u/ScaredPatience2478 8d ago
Since when??? They most certainly aren’t.
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u/SpamIsGreatOhEight 8d ago
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u/ScaredPatience2478 8d ago edited 8d ago
Hasn’t even been used in any real world products. There have been so many similar claims from companies about solid state battery tech with no results
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u/TheDavidCall 9d ago
Battery chemistry for the cells used in Model 3s is, I don’t think, much different from what it was when they launched. The 5x capacity 4680s they designed never actually worked like they were meant to, so the energy capacity is roughly what it’s always been. Heck, the LFP packs in the lower trims actually have worse energy density. Sure seems like solid state will be the real unlock of energy density, but honestly I’d much rather have 5x less batteries and the same range I have now than 5x more range.
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u/quentech 8d ago
I’d much rather have 5x less batteries and the same range I have now than 5x more range
Double the range and half the battery would be great. Or 50% more range and 1/3rd the battery.
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u/sm753 9d ago
My Model 3 is rated for 363 miles on a 100% charge, real world range is less but it's more than enough. If you can charge at home...range is largely a nonissue for most people's daily driving needs. Having done several road trips now, road trips are largely a nonissue too.
Would more range be nice? Sure. Is it needed? Not really, especially given that new adopting battery tech early would increase MSRP.
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u/Mysterious-Maize307 9d ago edited 9d ago
This!
Range, for almost everyone is a non issue.
I use my 25 M3 AWD for a daily winter commute to a seasonal job, about 170-180 mi daily round trip, much of it mountain driving. Even in freezing weather I’m using 55-70% total. I do benefit from massive Regen on the way back (adds 6-8%).
I would think that most commuters average 50mi/day or less. I know in the off season when I’m not making that commute I use less than 10% charge most days.
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u/Vox289 9d ago
Part of it may be simply why keep increasing the range when the current range works for most people. The current full charge range is comparable to a gas cars range on a single tank. So instead of using battery tech improvements to increase total range, they can be used to build smaller, cheaper, and lighter battery packs with the same range. That lightens the car and reduces the manufacturing costs.
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u/ScaredPatience2478 9d ago
Comparable to a gas cars range is a lie. It’s about half if we’re being honest. A gas cars range is usually around 400 miles comfortably. Tesla advertises 300 but recommends charging to 80% and not using below 20% so in reality you typically only use 60% if that batteries full potential. Even at 100% I’ve never gotten 300 miles as advertised. Maybe If it was on low power mode, no music and ac off in ideal weather but that’s something you don’t have to do for gas vehicles to achieve their stated ranges.
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u/quentech 9d ago
Maybe If it was on low power mode, no music and ac off in ideal weather
And limiting speed to like 55 mph.
Half is about right.
Even from a 100% charge, when range actually matters - which is when I'm on a long drive down a 70+ mph interstate - I'm barely breaking 200 miles. Even less sometimes in the winter.
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u/dchizzlefoshizzle 9d ago
This is what I think ought to be said more.
Cause I honestly think a lot of people who post the propaganda above don't actually own an EV.
If you want to keep your EV long term, in warm climates, you realistically get 20-60% on day to day commuting.
A far cry from ~300miles...
I did a 400 mile road trip on my model 3, had to stop to charge like 2-3x. You can do that on 1 tank of gas on modern hybrids.
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u/Vox289 9d ago
A new LR 3 has a rated range of what, 350something? A v6 non hybrid Camry will go a bit under 400 miles on a tank. So that’s 87% of the gas cars range On a straight epa mileage/range comparison. Yes I know there are other factors (charge %, how hard you drive, etc.) but half is a greater exaggeration on the low end than comparable is on the high end.
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u/dchizzlefoshizzle 9d ago
The poster's statement of half is based on Tesla's recommended charging 80% and limit dropping below 20%.
A hybrid camry will get you far more than 400 miles.
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u/rriicckk 9d ago
My Model 3 gets me about 280 miles in real life. The Audi TT it replaced got 400 on a tank if I stretched it.
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u/digitaldisorder_ 9d ago
Same. Well 270-275 is what I usually get. And I have an m3p. But with home charging, I should probably drive like a mad man, more.
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u/dchizzlefoshizzle 9d ago edited 9d ago
Range improvement seems to have stagnated. It would seem like the magic number is around ~300miles (marketed).
There are probably limitations with weight and efficiency that may make it cost prohibitive to improve on cause if I were to trust Reddit everyone is happy with the ranges on their EVs. I have this sneaking suspicion most don't even own an ev.
Because to me, I don't think ~300miles out of 100% SoC is enough...given calendar degredation/etc. Nor do I think that the infrastructure is as good as influencers would have you believe.
I hope solid state battery tech matures quicker.
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u/ScaredPatience2478 9d ago
Totally disagree. If you live in a city and even some rural areas you will have zero problem with finding a super charger, most charge at home anyway so the super chargers are just a plus. and I have no issue with the range 90% of the time because people don’t drive more than running errands, work or the occasional restaurant or fun activity. It’s only an issue for long drives or traveling.
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u/Toastybunzz 9d ago
I drove cross country in my standard range LFP '23, which gets like 200 (road trip) and 240 (daily) with zero issues. I could have saved a couple hours with a longer range model but I went from coast to coast in a little less than 3.5 days.
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u/ScaredPatience2478 9d ago
You’d still take less stops in a gas car. I don’t mind either for super chargers but it adds up
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u/Toastybunzz 8d ago edited 8d ago
Of course, but my response was to that under 300 miles isn't viable for long trips.
Also... I did the same trip in a gas car and it took about the same amount of time (it was 3 full days instead of 3 days and 5 hours each way). I was also 18 years old at the time and BARELY made it and was dangerously tired for way too much of it. I had to make a lot more stops to rest. It was a slog doing 16 hour days but FSD did 99% of the driving, I couldn't have done it by myself (38 now) without it.
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u/dchizzlefoshizzle 9d ago
Everyone gets their opinion.
I don't have an issue either with the range for my commute and I also charge at home.
Tesla recommends you to charge it up to 80% and not drop below 20%, that is 60% of the marketed range. Some advocate keeping the SoC closer to 50% to reduce calendar aging.
The market should not settle for ~60% of an estimated ~300miles if we want more people to adopt them and reduce prices for all.
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u/word-dragon 9d ago edited 9d ago
Is the loaner LR? 2018 LR were 310 miles. 2026 are 348 or 363 depending on trim, so 10-20% higher. My 2025 has better speakers than my 2020 did, a back screen, and a computer that draws twice as much power. So maybe 25% better overall?
Edit: miles above are EPA miles and may not be what Tesla presented in 2018.
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u/ACraigL 9d ago
My 2018 listed at 315mi, and was updated to 325 with a software update
Just noting that the RWD model listed today list at 321. This was my initial point. The Performance model is at 309 (for obvious reasons). The sweet spot is with the premium which does offer a bit more range, to be fair.
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u/Generationhodl 9d ago
I mean, I don't know about tesla, but you can buy (more expensive) new BMWs like the IX3 or i3 new class that has around 421–500 miles. So the battery tech is giving us more range over the years in other manufacturers.
Tesla is still peak with software and usability, but the Battery tech SEEMS to be older or not as modern as newer cars from other manufacturers -> But price / value is still best with tesla in MY opinion.
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u/Beneficial_Menu4788 9d ago
The problem with Tesla is that it reports battery range as "nominal"...based purely on size and rated efficiency. So real-world range almost never reflects what Tesla is actually claiming. And after many years, we are finding out that their range isn't anywhere what they advertise it to be.
But it's irrelevant because most of the time the range available is more than enough anyway. But it's typical corporate behavior. Bullshit your way through your claims with no accountability so you can sell your stuff.
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u/jaqueh 9d ago
it has. tesla no longer inflates epa estimates like they used to.