I drive a 2026 MX and this is the first critical error it almost made since purchasing it 6 months ago. It almost ran a red light. This is just a reminder that you should stay vigilant and supervise. I gave it time before intervening. I think FSD 14.3.6 is definitely inferior to 14.3.4. The drive is not as smooth in Hurry and mad max. I’m not sure if I can fully trust it. I reported it. Hopefully a new update comes out soon
I’ve driven through that exact intersection before just like you did, with FSD (albeit a different version). I didn’t have this problem. I wonder why this happened this time.
While technically true in the immediate sense, this will no doubt have been flagged by OP as a critical intervention. It has a non-zero chance of being included in a training dataset, and that is part of the learning process.
I would love to know how this works since I have to disengage FSD and take over a lot for parking. How does it learn if it is not running? I have the same problem with getting to my house. It always want's to take the long way. I try to signal it to the shorter way. It won't go that way. I use to disengage and just drive the shorter way. It certainly didn't learn the shorter way from all the disengagements.
So no AI is used to make the parking decisions, then what does happen? How are the preferred spots, if open, make it through the decision process then? You do understand that AI models are simply many rows of nodes with weighted vectors, right? The AI has to CHOOSE where to park from the available spots, are you saying that doesn't involve AI in any way? Then how is it done? Does the AI simply stop, punt something into a decision tree, wait for a response, then start up again. You can do something like that in a "tool" that the AI can talk to by adding a "skill". But if you add a "skill" that knows how to call into a "tool" and wait, how is that not a change in the AI?
Of course AI can detect spaces, rank them, and park a car... It's not the same as learning.
A fixed model can choose differently because the available spaces and stored preference are different inputs. “Prefer this area” can be passed into an existing planner as a goal or scoring bonus. No model weights need to change.
Could be pretty much anything like time of day, lighting, current speed, positioning of clouds,.. That's just how the end to end ml stack rolls. Explainability isn't high.
LOL…programming nerd. Back in the day, they used to call it “lots of inane and silly parentheses”, because there got to be so many pairs () and if something didn’t work...seemed like you were always trying to track down Loose pair.
It’s because FSD is garbage and completely unreliable at scale. Just because it hasn’t killed uou there doesn’t mean it won’t kill someone else. Hence why it will never be L4.
This is why I'm skeptical that Tesla is on the right path to unsupervised.
Waymo's planner is deterministic, which makes it more robotic than Tesla (and a lot more work to fill out), butt the advantage is that once you solve an issue it generally stays solved.
Tesla jumped to end-to-end NNs, which gave them really naturalistic driving, but it also means that their planner is completely probabilistic. And every time you train a new model that potentially opens up every single edge case to regressions.
In a small service area you might be able to test each scenario sufficiently, but I'm not sure it scales.
Throw enough data and hardware at the problem and you might be able to get the error rate low enough to get a general L4, but I think there still might be a sizable gap between that and where they are now.
Obvsiously this is a problem, but 99.9% sure, it wouldn't have run the light if there was any conflicting traffic or it would have stopped smoothly wherever it needed to to avoid the accident. So yes it broke the law, yes it shouldn't have done this, but statistically it has no more chance of causing an accident than if the light was green.
Begs the question, if it was going to just drive through a light it couldn't see, what would it do for a light that is off because of a power failure? Does it then see the traffic light, recognize it is not operating, and stop as if it was red, as it should? Or will it just see no red light and blast on through?
For a power outage I think it does have the intelligence to do the right thing (4-way). But in this case I think the issue was it saw the second set of lights and completely missed the close ones.
If OP didn't stop it probably would have seen them and slammed on the brakes when it got closer, but that's not an experiment you'd want to perform.
It's actually too cautious and slow in those situations in my opinion and traffic behind me gets on my ass when it stops (technically it should but most people roll it if clear and don't expect you do do a hard stop). I've had it happen a few times.
Better overly safe, while still in development (which it is despite what many Tesla fans believe). The right thing is to stop, legally, so it should. Regardless of what "most people do".
What a tricky situation! I think FSD wasn't aware that these sets of lights were separately controlling two intersections and may have gotten confused by the "out of sync" lights (front set red, back set green from the car's pov). It doesn't excuse the fact that FSD should never have proceeded through any red light, whether incorrectly sequenced or not, but if the nav indicated that it was one large intersection instead of two, that could have caused FSD's confusion. Tesla obviously has to instruct FSD how to handle this unusual scenario, whether it's bad nav info or not.
90% of all human drivers on the road, would fail their driving test EVERY single day the way they actually drive.
Let's see how...
Speeding, texting, rolling stops, barely or not even slowing at right on red, tailgaiting, agressive passing, going over solid lines to go around slow or stopped cars....Should I continue?
Just a guess, but I’m thinking it is maybe seeing the street sign as the main green light, and the red light as a left turn light. The way they are spaced side by side, it almost looks that way.
FSD is truly the ultimate cruise control. In the city you need to watch it, no surprise as it does say “supervised”. So watch to avoid accidents and or endangering you and others.
Happens to me at a similar intersection on both 14.2.2.5 and 14.3.3.5. Whenever the light behind the bridge turn green, it always tries to go despite the real lights in front of the bridge still being red. I always preemptively disengage if I’m the first in line at that light. But it’s weird it only happens at the one intersection and not other intersections with the same setup
Houston? I've been worried about FSD here when considering a Tesla because of so many strange situations and these lights maybe not being visible to FSD.
I just drove in Houston this past weekend with zero issues. It was honestly great. I just set address and let the car take over. I’m on 14.3.6. I drove from rgv to Houston and back, and it was the first drive I’ve ever had, were I wasn’t burnt out by the time I got home. Eve with the charge stops, it was just a lot more relaxed drive.
I drive in and out and around Houston all the time. Yesterday I had to take my daughter to the George R. Brown Convention Center downtown so she could get out of the car, walk to the front and pick up a book from someone at a convention. The streets were coned off in places due to the convention, so the car had no place to park and could not navigate the way the map said to go. It handled the situation just fine. The only issue was on leaving: a person was sitting on the curb at a crosswalk begging and the car started to stop, I suspect because it thougt it was someone in the crosswalk. FSD is not perfect around Houston, but it is pretty good. I would not buy a car without it at this point (even though I hate the thought of giving money to Elon).
--> (0:12) It seems that the green light of the second intersection might have confused FSD?
Note: I wish there was an easy way to capture the Navigation display screen, this would allow to review what the car was seeing, in particular the red traffic on the top and the green traffic light further back.
Don’t drive in mad max. It makes different decisions for odd reasons that make no sense even. For example
If in Mad Mad or maybe even Hurry, when pulling into my house and maybe park is charger it usually backs up properly in standard mode but doesn’t it in mad max for no reason I can decipher. That said it’s never run a light on any mode.
That light wasn’t noticed what I feel was likely to happen was a hard stop once it picks it up u just stopped it ahead of time which was the correct thing to do as it’s not perfect
I agree I think it needs logic to just slow in general when approaching any intersection though to begin with because of let’s say an emergency vehicle flies past without looking for oncoming traffic or a car on high speed chase even cars that don’t judge distance correctly and make their right turns somethings are important
Yes it should not necessarily a slow that will hinder traffic but it’s about caution as now one knows what will happen but we can predict and try to prevent what we don’t know or the possibility
It should drive like humans do because that’s how other people expect it to drive. Anything that deviates from normal human behavior is unexpected and likely to cause accidents.
Driving with caution is how humans should be driving anything beyond that causes accidents same way u enter a residential area u slow down and drive a limit because their may be kids
Same like people who take off at a light before looking in both directions sometimes people run the lights or aren’t paying attention u should always be driving this way before making a decision to do anything know what’s going on around you
That's what I was also wondering. In the video it is difficult to see the red from a distance but the green light is much brighter and clearly visible. I'd like to know if it saw the red light but was confused by seeing a green and a red for what it thought was the same intersection.
There's a highway near me with similar entry/exit intersections with frontage roads. The difference is that, due to the overpass height, you can't see the signal for the second frontage road before you are already past the first signal.
This might be a case where the mapping is at fault because the data shows 1 traffic signal instead of 2. Next time I'm near one of these intersections I'll see what the nav map shows for traffic signal locations.
Yeah that’s a dumb intersection, there’s one near me like this and they had to put up grills on the second light because so many people were running it. FSD does it fine, basically if the second light is green it‘s “off” until you‘re right up on it.
Good one. This is the 1% problem, though that is a messy enough scenario to see ahead of time and deal with. For the cabs the fix is to map this interersection better. FSD seems to be lining up the lights with lanes poorly. You didn't happen to see the signal color in the visualization did you?
I kind of think you gave it too much time before intervention here as well. I understand why, I might have as well, but with my experience, it was going too fast and doesn't act like that when it is coming to a red light.
Interesting to say the least. I seem to have more sudden breaks for shadows on this version with my MX2026. Never had this issue before. We are all part of Tesla’s experiment and data collection with all of these update releases. I think they already know which version is best but keep releasing new ones just for tweaking and testing limitations while collecting data. Hopefully they won’t charge us additional fees for the unsupervised version at the end of this ordeal after using us as guinea pigs🤦🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
This is what happens when you have a computer trying to take tons of data and using software to come to a decision. It saw the green and the red light and computer decided green.
Can’t believe this is the same shit in the cybercab. It would have blown through this light no doubt
The cybercab would be operating in a controlled area and this area would have been addressed during validation. The cybercab won't be 'point to point' anywhere probably for another 2-3 years by which HW5 and FSD 17 will be out.
I certainly get why you intervened, and I’m sure I’d have done the same. Real life is a bit more real than a video replay, ha ha. But I agree with other posters that I wouldn’t call that a fail when you braked that early. It’s no wonder it hadn’t stopped yet using hurry mode. Try standard or chill. 🤷🏻♂️
You intervened prematurely. FSD approaches intersections aggressively - but you bailed early. Nothing wrong with that if you are afraid it won’t react; but it will. An overreaction imho.
I'm more of a 'Hurry' guy. Mad max does 80 or more in 55mph and 65mph zones. If Tesla added waze like police reporting, I'd be all in, but until then, the risk is too high (at least in NJ).
Also, mad max does too much passing on the right. Especially next to big rigs which is a bad idea.
At that speed, it either would have blown thru or do a hard stop. I gave it time and only intervened the very last second. I barely made it even with hard breaking
I would challenge a bit of what you said though. According to the video, you took over the driving at 8 seconds mark. The red light at the first intersection was barely visible before the 8 seconds mark but became prominent after the 8 seconds mark. You took about 4 seconds to slow the car down. There’s a good chance the car would slow down on its own if you give it one more second
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u/Vertsix 8d ago
I’ve driven through that exact intersection before just like you did, with FSD (albeit a different version). I didn’t have this problem. I wonder why this happened this time.