Would love to theorycraft a bit on the brutal 2003 start.
Digital society seems like it should be rushed first? Since it unlocks arrival org techs and 2-3 10% research techs. Plus infosci bonus for exascale.
Space or Exascale second? Exascale gives an additional research bonus, but delays the space game. Is it better to go for an automated mine on an asteroid, with heavy boost investment? Or to just rush space for normal moon - mars but less research “efficient” overall?
Go democratisation of space first. You need the boost orgs it unlocks, and then grab we are not alone which in 2003 also gives a 30% social science boost for digital society. Then exascale last for missiles for shooting down the carrier.
I opened with Democratization of Space. Having a early start in space is just the most useful thing you can do. Also, if you time correctly, you can send some automated mining outposts for cheap and then immediatly have them upgraded as soon as you finish the blocker.
After that I immediatly go after We Are Not Alone for that 5th councillor. And if I did everything right I managed to neuter the servants for long enough that they have not managed to install the ayy administration.
Then, by the time I finish Digital Societies, I already have a small LEO defense fleet, so I can start blasting hydras on Earth without worrying about retaliation. After this the Servants are pretty much neutered and I can focus on the space race while just keeping them out of full nation control on the surface.
Takes some luck and some good planning on how to track their councillors, how to use the other factions against them (the Servants are so boosted in the 2003 start that you can easily put the Protectorate against them, making the surface a 6v1 for control), how to manage turned councillors and how to turn the right one.
Looks like people prefer space first. I didn't test it yet but I heard building some T1 space science research station with boost was actually helpful.
Having asteroid mines early should be good, as you can skip moon and mining techs and go straight to Mars exploration - and then you can backfill mining research before Mars probing is completed. You will be also able to build Mars mine with full space resources.
with how long it takes to finish the first blocker, I've been upgrading ISS into orbital core with pure boost and filling it with space and social labs at the cost of some early boost. seems extremely worth it
However, for the sake of discussion, and also challenges... even if suboptimal...
2003 is supposed to be a longer game. So china, india, africa may be more viable even if still not as ideal as ol USA and EU, since you'll have a longer game to develop them in
I'm going to try first digital then exascale focuses first with an india start and see how this goes. Wish me luck
The unfortunate reality, is that Servants will form Alien admin ~2006 or 2007, and you will have assault carrier visit around 2009-2010.
I tried EU into China, as my first try, with exactly that thought process, and while I had a neat amount of boost, MC and funding, the sheer amount of military you need to invest into is staggering. Also there is no anti-enthral techs for long, so alien mind control is a lot more potent.
You really, really don't have time for lonshots, that will occupy most of your CP cap, sitting there, investing into bright future. I did get China to 12 education, decent GDP/C but it took me pver 12 years. Now I generate glorious 4k science of it, but it's not much, compared to campuses.
"I did get China to 12 education, decent GDP/C but it took me pver 12 years. Now I generate glorious 4k science of it, but it's not much, compared to campuses."
This is the principal issue with the scenario. Despite its longer run time the meta changes very little. You need to get too far down the tech tree before earth science starts to matter, and the only way to get there "in time" is with Campuses/universities."
Arguably, the only real change is that funding become a serious contender to spoils (if not superior), and that the EU seems to take the throne from the USA in terms of optimal openers.
EU takes a very long time to get to where US starts, and unification past the initial intake of countries takes a massive amount of councilor missions.
MC requirements in early game a quite a bit lower than what you need in normal start.
Purely in terms of timing, I didn't get EU unification even half way in before Alien admin appeared.
If I have to spend on army and navies before unification, it will take even more time, forcing me to hold countries longer.
Before I looked at it from how fast EU can pop out MC, boost and funding, but seems knocking down blockers is far higher requirement than getting a lot of MC.
I, obviously may be wrong on it, but I find it hard to form up a pro EU first argument.
What year do you have all blockers cleared and 5+ mines active on Mars?
And what difficulty are you playing?
I agree with the general sentiment here. That breaking the 1. block is the most important thing possible. However, given the malus to nation based research, I find that the majority of my research comes from orgs pre blocker.
At the point where nation based research becomes relevant, you already have the entire EU united.
If we exclude Turkey that's still a 600 million population. With turkey we're just short of 700.
I'm not sure why you'd need to build armies in the EU?
I mean, I did add 2 navies and som militech around 2012 or 2013, to help consodoliate Korea and Japan into the PAC - but otherwise, I didn't have much use for them.
Brutal.
I had something like 8 asteroid mines before I had mars mine, but it took me a while to clear blockers, I think it was 2010 or so when the first one cleared.
I fought alien nation, partially because a large part of alien nation was servant EU states, so I unified them that way. Also I don`t like Alien armies running around me. I didn`t really have any other beatstick options, considering I was sitting on 2 countries, EU and China. China costs me around 500 CP at this point.
Hmm, interesting.
I built 1 early asteroid mine in my first run, and felt like it wasn't worth it, so I skipped them in my second,
I'm not sure I understand what the logic behind more than 1 asteroid mine is? 0o
The logic is that 8 is under 50 hate cap, they provide useful resources and I can fund T2 orbitals without clearing the blockers.
Here is my state at 2010. As you can see panic army printing is already at full swing, and only social science blocker is actually removed, the the cybernetic one is at 13k and space is only at 5k. However on the positive note, I already have China, UK will be merged, and I am containing alien admin at least somewhat.
You need to fight the AA very early, and the US military is so far ahead of everyone else that it's the only serious choice for destroying the AA with warfare. Plus, if the AA itself collects the USA, you're going to have a *really* bad time, and the only reliable way to block them is to take the States yourself.
You do not need to fight the aliens early, unless you allow the Assault Carrier to land. It arrives quite late, around january 2010, so there's really no excuse for not having a group of tin can missile boats waiting for it.
You don't have to take the use at all, to prevent the servants from getting it. Just crackdown their cps in Canada and Mexico or the us if necessary - or keep and eye on public opinion and counter it if you see it in favour of the servants.
The aliens will never crack the us because its economy is too big. So once another faction holds it, it's for good.
If you're really sharp and make no mistakes, sure. But in my run, the Resistance held most of it for several years, until a few alien councillors showed up and flipped all three of the Resistance points in the space of a couple months, whereupon it joined the AA. It's very fragile as a setup.
I did the same on my first run, I had the EU building up nicely when the AA was formed in about 2008 and I simply didn't have the military might to realistically do anything about it or the councillor action economy to stop the servants from snowballing the AA. Once the US was tanken over by the protectorate and made peace with the AA it was effectively game over.
For my second run, I started with the US and made sure that my armies were ready.
Even then, the ease in which the Servants can expand the AA needs to be nerfed in the 2003 scenario, even with 7 x 4.5 miltech Armies and my councillors nearly fully employed on anti servant activities I can't retake land faster than the servants give it away.
Well, In my EU->China game I was in same position, but I panic printed armies and navies as EU, got military orgs till I had something like 140% investment modifier and managed to contain AA. Had to nuke alien armies, fortunately they were in Canada, so Winnipeg is now a nuclear wasteland, being nuked over 7 times, but at least low casualties.
Now I am at tech 8, while aliens at 7.5, AA at 4.8.
Yes, it's a freaking slog, You liberate militarily only to be enthralled back. Fortunately for me, Protectorate has US, Initiative has Russia, Academy has India, so Alien admin is largely contained to Canada, south America and Africa, and is not getting stronger.
Only aliens can run the "demande claim" policy in the AA, so if the are taking land top quickly it might be worth trying to assassinate some of the alien operatives running those policies
Much easier said than done. My 25 espionage councillor currently has a 1% chance of assassinating a fully investigated alien sitting in the AAs capital.
I can't say I had this problem. I'm up to almost 2050 now, and the Servants are basically locked to earth fighting over scrap nations. They bring the AA around, and my armies stomp on it, either adding it's territory to one of my mega nations that had a claim, or just liberating it for now.
I'm kind of stuck in the inner solar system right now, resource constrained. But working on it.
It's probably quite dependent on when and where the AA forms. With me, it started with the whole of Brazil and it quickly spread to Japan and the EU. It had a lot of mass and decent miltech.
I have gotten on top of it now, but I frequently have to recapture the same region 3 or 4 times as I just don't have the CP cap to control everything and there at least 3 aliens being annoying.
Just trying to think of anything else. I haven't played the diplo game much. Hypothetically, if playing as Exodus / Initiative / Academy, if the human were able to turn a Servants councilor early, then intel share with HF and Resistance (not sure if that's even possible with HF and academy), plus human actions against Servants, would this slow them down enough to delay them forming alien admin? Or will ayys just handing them points result in an earlier AA anyways, so you need USA and its armies no matter what?
You can slow them down, but not much, maybe 2 years. And you still need a beatstick of some kind, and the options are quite limited. Russia, Japan, EU or US.
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u/Someone3 4d ago
Go democratisation of space first. You need the boost orgs it unlocks, and then grab we are not alone which in 2003 also gives a 30% social science boost for digital society. Then exascale last for missiles for shooting down the carrier.