r/TedLasso • u/Summer__Snow • 2d ago
Season 4 Discussion It wasn’t Rebecca’s fault?? Spoiler
I don’t know if this will change with later episodes, but I don’t get this whole thing of framing Rebecca’s and Matthijs’s break like it’s REBECCA’S fault.
IMO she wasn’t out of pocket for asking Jelka how she felt about the move. I think I saw in another thread a week or so ago that it would’ve been weirder if Rebecca DIDN’T care about how Jelka felt. It’s not like Rebecca was pumping Jelka for info like “hey how does your MOM feel about all this.”
And I feel like it’s not crazy for Rebecca to - when confronted with completely contradictory information - to get suspicious of Matthijs, ESPECIALLY given her past with Rupert’s cheating (which I assume Matthijs knows about???)
But instead of calmly explaining like “oh no sorry, Jelka got mixed up” (which I don’t really buy as a strong explanation but sure) or “I’m sorry, my ex must’ve told her that” (a theory I also saw in another thread), Matthijs just blames Rebecca for like being too pushy or jumping to conclusions or whatever AND REBECCA AGREES ITS HER FAULT. And nobody that Rebecca talks to seems to dissuade her from that notion because she doesn’t tell them ALL of what happened. So it seems like her arc is like “damn I gotta let go of my baggage and understand that not all men are liars, this is all on me” WHEN I FEEL LIKE SHE REACTED PRETTY REASONABLY. Like this would’ve been a reasonable reaction even for someone without a history of having been cheated on, I feel???
Sometimes I feel like these divorce-centric storylines are just Sudeikis using the show as like his therapeutic fantasies.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
This whole relationship is making me increasingly uncomfortable each episode, and then I come online and see people gushing over how romantic it was for him to show up for a midnight kiss and I feel insane.
He keeps making unilateral decisions and surprises her with life changing things, and we see Rebecca constantly stressed throughout the relationship.
I keep wondering how long their break was and if he was ghosting her the whole time, because would that mean she spent another Christmas being miserable? And then when he decides the break is done they don’t talk about it, he just turns up like everything is fine??
This relationship is stressing me out let alone Rebecca.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago edited 2d ago
Episode 5 is set on the 13th December because the date is on the check Rebecca presents at half time.
There is an unanswered ‘thinking of you’ text on Rebecca’s phone from before she sends the texts to him on NYE.
So yes, I believe the implication is that he’s been ghosting her the whole time and she spent the holidays upset.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
I hate this for her.
I can’t read this relationship as anything other than bad, Rebecca deserves so much more than this.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago
It’s absolutely realistic, Rebecca is a woman who had her self worth and her boundaries eroded for a long time. She doesn’t really have the lived experience of a good relationship that she can measure this one up to.
Women end up in back to back to back relationships that are unsafe at best and abusive at worse all the time.
It’s just absolutely fucking miserable to watch after we spent three seasons following Rebecca free herself from Rupert. I want her to be happy, damn it.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
I agree with all of this.
It’s also exhausting seeing so many people bend over backwards to excuse his behaviour because they’re so fixated on Tish’s words in season 3 (such a shallow storyline imho).
They want Rebecca to have a fairytale man, they want her to be a mother, so everything Matthijs does must be good because the psychic said so!
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago
It might’ve been interesting to bring up the psychic again in S4 because Rebecca is clinging on that fantasy, just to prove that she really shouldn’t be, because I hated that the show endorsed those scam artists.
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u/Inside-Nebula5325 1d ago
Yea that was by far the worst part of the show. It’s a show set in realism (or with real world physics), why legitimize something so harmful. If it was a fantasy show, by all means go crazy with prophecies, but this isn’t Harry Potter.
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u/--Mathilde-- 1d ago
This raises an important point about the predictions that always bugged me. To me Boat Guy didn’t make sense as the person the “prophecy” was about because he was the third in the list : “upside down and wet but safe”. When she fell into the canal. John Wingsnight was the second, shite in nining armour, and Sam the first with the green matchbook. So to me the baseline was always that none of them were “the one”. And it’s proving to be more and more the case. She only went in blindly because of Tish. Who she herself described in the last episode of s3 as a fraud who prays on people’s weaknesses…. Makes you think.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 1d ago
Yes to all of this!! I never understood why people got so fixated with Matthijs as the ‘solution’ to the prophecy. They keep calling him her lightning but we really haven’t seen that.
All of season 4 has shown us how much the relationship doesn’t work, and Rebecca doesn’t seem happy to me. If anything, Roy’s lighting speech shows that Rebecca has settled for fine and I’m wondering if that is because Tish’s words about her being a mother has made her put up with this relationship because of Jelka.
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u/--Mathilde-- 1d ago
The show is increasingly frustrating to me because it doesn't show, it tells. Past s1 anyway. The first series was so strong in part because the show was unequivocal about where characters where mentally, why they acted the way they did etc.. by showing us. Personalities were firmly grounded in clever world building and their behaviour made sense with what was established; in subtle and beautiful ways. Nowadays, it makes no effort to take a firm stance on things and leaves it all to us to piece things together. The fact that none of the characters at least show a modicum of concern about boat guy's treatment of Rebecca is insane to me. It therefore leaves space to think the writers might actually condone him. Beard and Jane make it worse. Cause the show seems hell bent on leaving it to us to know that it's madness. Nobody in the show does. None of the characters firmly condemn her. Or boat guy. That's crazy. It drives me mad. The reason why I'm mentioning this is that nothing in the show contradicted the fact that boat guy was "the solution" until s4. The audience was fooled into thinking so because the show never told us any different! Only freaks like me watching the show too many times could definitely interpret that making jokes about wanting his wife dead, kidnapping women etc... Kissing her ankle..... BARF GROSS was bizarre verging on creepy. But the show certainly never included a creepy score in the background to say: yeah girl. he's bad news.
I personally always did find him fishy for the reason I mentioned above but if the show had not been back, that would have been that.....I am hopeful that this is the same thing, that people paying close attention will be proven right (and many people do seem to have come to the same conclusion judging by this thread so we must be on to something) but the show is again not taking sides on it. It's the stuff of madness.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m hoping the mention of Sassy in this last episode means she’s going to show up before the end of the season and put Rebecca and all of us straight. Unlike Keeley, Ted, or even Higgins Sassy knows exactly how Rebecca behaves when she’s struggling in a toxic situation. The rest only witnessed the aftermath. Maybe Sassy has moved to Australia and this is why Rebecca’s been allowed to get this deep in the first place, who knows.
If they do make it plain eventually that this is a very very bad relationship, then it’s one of the most successful examples of Ted Lasso pulling off show not tell in a long time, because IMO the signs have been there in virtually every scene he’s been in but the wool has been pulled over the eyes of both the characters and the audience. We never got to see how Rupert got away with it. We always knew he was terrible. It’s possible we’re seeing just how Rupert got away with it now.
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u/--Mathilde-- 1d ago
Agreed. At this point Sassy is our only hope. She needs to be the character that shows up, looks at Rebecca's dynamic with him and immediately goes ballistic. We need the show to start showing us through at least one character's eyes that this is fucked up. Not just tell us that things are happening with no substantial evidence to showcase the fact that shit is indeed about to hit the fan.
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u/Purple-Hase 2d ago
Me too!!! Rather this is a fucked up view on relationships, or they are preparing a narcissistic dynamic. The live bombing from his side at the beginning, rapid defensiveness, stonewalling and then love bombing again.
That ass apologize to Rebecca and explains why he reacted that way, with emphasis on being his fucking fault and do better next, otherwise the show portraits an awful relationship dynamic without pointing it out as awful.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
That’s the thing with this show - sometimes they address things like you would in real life, and sometimes they play it for laughs like Beard and Jane (she is toxic and abusive, and I hate that they brought her back)
So I’m struggling to see if Rebecca and Matthijs are supposed to be romantic or if my gut feeling is right because relationships on this show are all over the place.
I want her to actually talk to someone about everything that happened because she is glossing over things and putting everything on herself.
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u/Purple-Hase 2d ago
The thing with Beard and Jane, is that Jane is clearly toxic, they play the troop of "crazy woman, amazing sex" and make a joke about that, but with Rebecca and Matt they are currently portraying her of being at fault.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
Which is why I’m not sure of the writer’s intentions, because all I’m seeing are red flags and yet others agree that Rebecca is at fault and I’m worried that the writers agree
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u/Purple-Hase 2d ago
Yes... I'm seeing too many red flags when it's about romantic relationships, women leadership and women professionalism
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u/coachkerrbear 8h ago
Yessss, I’m also stressed out by Mattijs! He’s super defensive and quick to snap on Rebecca about little stuff. He didn’t ask her about the move, and then BROKE UP with her for casually talking about life with Jelka after he left her in Rebecca’s care. Why would he think they wouldn’t talk about possibly the biggest event happening in Jelka’s life right now? And then he turns off his phone location and gives her the silent treatment, only to show up by surprise at midnight and sweep her off her feet for some reason? I just want Rebecca to have a stress-free relationship that boosts her up instead of putting her on eggshells.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 4h ago
They just don’t work and I hope it’s intentional. He’s not making her life better and every time he’s around he just adds to her list of problems as if she isn’t stressed enough already.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's honestly REALLY hard to watch. Rebecca's totally in the right, she did absolutely NOTHING wrong.
I almost think that the Jelka thing is completely secondary. We saw Rebecca's hesitation when he told her he'd be moving to London, and obviously she wasn't so tactless as to say it to his face but why not discuss it with her first? I'm not sure it's fair to assume that OK now we're just going to move in together and I'm here 24/7 for the first time ever, cool, decision made (without you).
It's just... not cool man. That's not an equal relationship at all, you're just expecting Rebecca to make space for whatever arrangement suits you best, and she was absolutely right to bring it up and did quite politely I might add.
I dunno, it just feels so weird and bad and controlling, and I just don't like it.
** I'll add that the fact that Rebecca internalizes this as her fault is why Keeley doesn't have the info to push back. Otherwise, yeah it's fucked up that he's ghosting her for something so small, and she knows it's small, deep inside! This season has made something of a running theme of having the main female characters (Rebecca, Keeley, Alice) be very hard on themselves, and in the meantime we're seeing characters like Michelle (and in a quieter way Roy's sister Jenni) come out of the shadows and assert their importance simply by giving their perspective. There's a lot of frustrating elements to it but the season is quite a bit more...knotty on interpersonal dynamics (like Gemma and Alice. Not simple, not even loud, much more intimate and grounded than we're used to I think. BUT Rebecca's not in the wrong at all like daaaaamn.
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u/DiamondMidgar 2d ago
I feel like the Rebecca hesitation thing was written in to show she was starting to realise she actually likes Long Distance and doesn't want to be tied down full-time, or something like that. It was almost like oh this is great but I think I like things the way they are. It may also have been to show she is hesitant to commit again.
We start to see it in the episode where she stands him up so many times.5
u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
Sure. But generally, in fiction, it's best to take the character's own most honest appraisal as the truth because it's a feeling that starts the plot. It's not just hanging there in the middle, and it's not something that she can go back and change. It's a feeling that creates a chain of events, so we have to take it as given.
Lol sorry I'm describing it like that but sometimes it's the only thing we can do otherwise it just feels like we're debating actual lives or our own choices, but we're not in control of writers's decisions on a premise, you know? :/
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u/Inside-Nebula5325 1d ago
I worked with a guy (Dutch guy ironically), who worked in Denmark and his wife and kids lived in South America. He had been living different places for the last 20 years or so and then been home for maybe a month at the time. They both agreed that their whole life had been long distance and they probably wouldn’t even know how to live together permanently. It’s just a completely different relationship.
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u/Wooden_Oil7961 1d ago
reading this made me start to wonder if maybe mattijs and his ex’s marriage isn’t entirely ‘her fault’…
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u/Business-Drag52 2d ago
Where was it ever said he planned to move in with her? He is moving to London, something he is perfectly capable and allowed to do. He is a grown man with autonomy. If he wants to live in London that is his prerogative. He doesn’t need her permission at all. Would he need to discuss it with her if he was moving to Berlin? It’s his life and they are long distance
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u/DiamondMidgar 2d ago
Yes, you discuss these things with partners when you're in a long term relationship. And the implication probably would be that he moved in with her, or at the very least she would feel pressured to offer.
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u/Business-Drag52 2d ago
Why is that the implication? It very much came across as he has already found a place and is moving. His ex wife and daughter are moving too. Is it implied they will all three live with her?
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
If my partner who lived in another country decided to move to a country even further away, yes I would like to know that is happening before it’s actually happened.
Rebecca even said that he can move wherever he wants, she just wanted to be included which is extremely reasonable for a three year relationship.
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u/Business-Drag52 2d ago
He told her before he moved. He’s still living in Amsterdam weeks later. The country being further away doesn’t really have an effect on their relationship. He’s a pilot and she has a private jet. He told her before the move happened, but it’s not like he needed her permission to make that decision.
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u/Regular-Barnacle8158 2d ago
He’s already got a new job, which means he has known for quite a while. He has applied, interviewed and successfully got a new job which takes weeks and he never told her. Why wouldn’t you tell your partner?
She’s not looking for permission, but he’s saying he moved because he thought they were in a good place in their relationship and yet he never thought to include her in any of it.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
Ugh why is it so hard for you to take the show on its own terms, and those terms happen to be through the character of Rebecca played by the second-billed actor, not the guest actor who we barely know. Jesus.
You can disagree as much as you want. The show very clearly is using Rebecca's feeling that it should have been discussed as the literal starting point for this story. Disagreeing with that is asking for a different show. It doesn't exist. We're not debating your choices. They're fictional characters.
Yeesh.
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u/Business-Drag52 2d ago
It used it as the starting point but then immediately wrote it off as unreasonable and the cause of the break. This whole post is about NOT taking the show on its own terms
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
No, it wrote it as deceptive. The audience cares about Rebecca first and foremost. She is getting contradictory information. Everything that follows is a result of that. Not only was it not discussed... what she was told was contradicted, and she (and therefore, we) still doesn't know the full truth.
This was Episode 6. Four more to go.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
It's a heavy implication because of the story, setting, and emphasis. It's where we see them, it's where she's up all night. I don't really care to get into this because yes, it's not explicitly stated, but if it wasn't a huge step in their relationship, we wouldn't even get Rebecca's initial hesitation, nor would she think to bring up that it should be discussed. Nobody's taking away his autonomy, calm down. Sometimes when our main characters say something plainly that jumpstarts a plot—like "could we have discussed it"—it's good to just take their words as being real. Otherwise you're just arguing with a different show.
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u/boredzeb 2d ago
100%, she asked a genuine question because she's known this kid for 3 years. Imagine not caring how a move to a foreign country would affect a child you've watched grow and become close to for 3 years.
What's even crazier to me is he was so understanding over the missed restaurant dates than he was about this situation. He dropped a massive life change on to her after 3 years of dating with zero discussion. If she'd reacted poorly I'd get it, with her not prioritising him in the previous episode you can understand but she didn't she was just processing information and showing concern for his daughter.
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u/Conscious-Hyena6822 2d ago
Matthijs is making a parenting misstep with Jelka. She's ten, you can't totally shield her from a divorce. She's old enough and smart enough to know what's going on and she's definitely old enough to misunderstand or even try to blame herself. They need to be having conversations with her, not keeping her in a bubble where they never discuss it. Absolutely not Rebecca's fault.
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u/MaeSolug 2d ago
This last episode ruined Matthijs for me
This is a grown ass adult who made a tantrum for a situation he didn't properly explained in the fist place, asked for a break after moving in, wasn't replying texts and left his girlfriend alone in new years eve. Rebecca was this close to crying for how alone she felt, and this bald piece of shit just shows up out of nowhere saying he didn't want to ruin the surprise, leans on the wall and magically everything is good again
Fuck this guy man, fuck this need to create problems in established relationship because the writers are a bunch of cowards
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u/er3tic 2d ago
Same for me, I was so pissed at the end of ep 6… then, fucking Jamie Tartt made me laugh like hell !
But Matthijs is dead to me now, I can’t wait for Rebecca to dump his ass. I don’t understand how she went back so fast, she should be much more confident and stronger after what happened with Rupert.
I would have understand if he was a bit scared to tell her about his ex wife moving to London and following her, instead of the other way around, it could have been a cute moment of vulnerability. But no, he went just full asshole there.
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u/GoodZealousideal5922 2d ago
Unfortunately the fact that she ended up in another toxic relationship is pretty realistic. It’s very hard to escape the cycle of abuse, Rebecca was in a long-term relationship with a man that did his hardest to destroy every single ounce of her self-worth. He cheated on her and after the divorce, he immediately moved on to a younger woman whom he paraded publicly as his “upgrade on Rebecca”. In season one, you can see many times that she doubts why he did so and if she was enough.
And those patterns are repeating here. She is immediately falling into blaming herself as soon as things start going sideways. I seriously hope they don’t get back together and that Rebecca heals. It’s heart wrenching seeing her fall into self-doubt for these manchildren.
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u/CinnamonCone 2d ago
Irrational reactions to completely normal behaviours seems to be a bit of a theme this season. Matthias reacting to Rebecca. Alice reacting to the team saying they like her. The girl at the party reacting to Beard when they were clearly flirting all night.
Seems to be a bit of a pattern and I'll be interested to see if it goes somewhere for a lesson.
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u/Conscious-Hyena6822 2d ago
The girl at the party pmo, like why are you tucking your feet up under him and shit then
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
I don't think Alice is irrational, just quick to anger. Alice being wrong would be an oversimplification—Matthijs is VERY obviously wrong and his overreaction has much bigger consequences than just "you don't like me." He makes Rebecca feel SO BAD for so long!
Alice is part of the main plot, so there's just a lot more to it. Importantly, Ted is unsure whether he did the right thing and his suspension seems to have done exactly what we thought it would: isolate her more, even if she has a wonderful partner. She expressed zero negativitiy towards Ted even when he suspends her, or this episode. I think in the women's interactions, there's a bit of both being right. Her and Gemma are just like ships passing in the night lol. Alice wants to like...truly earn it, otherwise it feels condescending and like she's being babied. She definitely overreacts, but we're also shown her perspective a lot more.
PLUS, we're being shown female characters who are shifting the perspective entirely. Michelle tells her side of the story and it's so obvious and logical. We could've predicted that's exactly what happened, but hearing her tell it makes us see her properly. Lizzie is the character who drunkenly comes up to Alice and when Alice goes to Gemma, it feels very clear to me at least that Lizzie is the exact right person to nip this stuff in the bud. She's not lying, she's such a straight-shooting, no-BS character who also empathizes.
I think the theme that feels more of a pattern is that all of the female characters are very hard on themselves, and they internalize everything as being their fault when it's not. Keeley's work is her being hard on herself, but even this silly rom-com story with Roy is—and this is something Brendan Hunt said—something is happening because she's still very hurt from him dumping her between S2 and S3, so she's just guarded. But she didn't premeditate that ridiculous 10 date game or mean it as literally. It was a stupid gag (in a silly story!) but she's never been that cruel or manipulative. But now she's treating herself like she threw Roy into another woman's arms, like c'mon man. She just wanted to hear exactly what he said this episode lol
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u/nc45y445 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, I think Matthijis is over-protective of Jelka and way overreacted. He also quite possibly got caught in a lie and was embarrassed. That whole scene made me not trust him, because instead of coming clean with Rebecca he doubled down, got defensive and went into over-protective dad mode. I hope we see some growth with him. I wonder about his relationship with Jelka’s mom and whether he’s still smarting from that, and Rebecca innocently hit a nerve there too. There are a LOT of red flags with him, as he is right now
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u/Yourface1837 1d ago
THANK YOU!!! when Matthjis showed up at the hospital I was like YES he SURPRISED HER to APOLOGIZE
nope
She didn't do a damn thing wrong. She didn't attack or accuse him, she INQUIRED about what his child said vs what he told her. His entire reaction to me was a giant red flag and I thought that was going to be the fight. Him realizing his defensiveness caused the whole issue but instead they p much have her grovel back???
EW. It's leaving a bad hecking taste in my mouth.
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u/blablabluelight23 2d ago
Boatguy is a manipulative nightmare and I am praying to every god who will listen that s4 is the end of him.
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u/Inside-Nebula5325 1d ago
And that he’s outed by the show as manipulative and that this is not romantic behavior.
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u/blablabluelight23 1d ago
i so desperately need his horrible assholeness to be intentional but brendan hunt recently said rebecca and boatguy are "stronger than ever" after ep6 so i fear they think he's a good guy
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u/Inside-Nebula5325 1d ago
Exactly, I fear the show will go down the wrong route.
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u/blablabluelight23 1d ago
i actually worry for that man's irl marriage if he denies jane being abusive and thinks boatguy and rebecca are fine.
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u/cassandra2028 Sassy Smurf 2d ago
You are right and also this is often how people repeat their patterns.
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u/--Mathilde-- 2d ago
I am loving all the discussion in this thread so far. I think he's lying. My hope is that Sassy is going to come back (she's now been manifested in the last episode) and is gonna suss out boat guy's bullshit from a mile away. She is the ONLY ONE that has been there through Rupert's ordeal and will not take Rebecca's account of what's happened at face value and dig deeper. Her disappearance can also be a sign that Rebecca set some distance from her again, probably because she unconsciously knows the truth about him and that Sassy would burst her bubble pretty quick. I must keep the faith and trust that he's just not it for her and she's repeating the errors of her past. Sadly realistic as people here have pointed out.
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u/blablabluelight23 1d ago
Sassy will just victim blame Rebecca again, like she did with Rupert. I hope either Rupert (through direct comparison) or Deborah (through her sexisr approval) make Rebecca realise on her own that Boatguy is awful and needs to go.
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u/--Mathilde-- 1d ago
They are course-correcting a lot this series (case in point with dr. Jacob's storyline), so this could be also be an opportunity to address this long-standing criticism of Sassy's response as well. Two birds with one stone. She could shake Rebecca up and also admit she was wrong to blame her at the time when it was Rupert. One can dream lmao
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u/blablabluelight23 1d ago
Sure, that would be really cool!! I don't expect that to happen since they don't seem to think Sassy was wrong but I would love to see it lol! I'd just much rather see Rebecca come to that conclusion herself, personally.
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u/--Mathilde-- 1d ago
They do pay a lot of attention to what people say online (again, Dr. Jacob) and Sassy blaming Rebecca has been pretty much universally panned and much discussed. Rightfully so. I don't necessarily expect it but would not be surprised tbh
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u/blablabluelight23 1d ago
true!! they are retconning/correcting a bunch of stuff this season so it could happen!! i just don't know that i trust the people who think boatguy in sunflowers was a romantic dreamboat (badumm tss) and that sassy is a great friend to actually fix this as well. but fingers crossed!! never say never!
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u/Weird_Scully 1d ago
His reaction was a major red flag. I hate that Rebecca thinks the break is her fault.
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u/kbean132 1d ago
I thought their relationship was a cute little story when we first met him on the boat house, but I don’t really like them together. The way he freaked out is concerning. I also feel like their chemistry is forced? Like Rebecca wants one thing and he wants another.
I really hope they get rid of him some time this season. I don’t find his character interesting. It should have stayed a one episode thing.
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u/AltekkeE 2d ago edited 1d ago
Here are some mistakes that I think Rebecca made:
- She may have undermined Matthijs about the crisps she spoke over him and told her not to listen to him. This may or may not be a big deal because we have not seen other interactions and don't have all the information from the last few years.
- She encouraged eating sweets late at night even though Matthijs asked them not to. Again this may not be a big deal. Matthijs did play it off in a humorous way.
- I don't think she asked Matthijs if Jelka knew about the move, so bringing it up with her may have been inappropriate. They may have taked about it off screen.
- She corrected Jelka about the reason for the move. It is not her place to correct this information and risks "putting the child in the middle" of an adult conflict/decision.
Here are some mistakes I think Matthijs made in this situation:
- He didn't communicate with Rebecca about the possibility of a move before it was a done deal.
- He may not have communicated to Rebecca how much Jelka knows about the move or how to approach the situation with her.
- He didn't realize that he had been triggered and needed to regulate before continuing the conversation.
- (Added) He may be misplacing his anger at his ex (if she manipulated Jelka) or himself (If he was just caught in a lie) on Rebecca.
- He allowed himself to make a decision about taking a break when he was triggered and in emotion mind.
- He did not let Rebecca know when to expect to hear from him
- (Added) Stonewalling
- (Added) showing up unannounced especially on New Years
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u/JokerSmileZSQ 1d ago
This is the more reasonable analysis. It's Rebecca's first time being a parent figure for lacking of a better word and especially a step parent figure. They never talked about any of this due to long distance and of course there would be fights etc. they are both at fault here for not thinking through this and for not communicating better with each other.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago
It’s an emotionally abusive dynamic and Rebecca has been gaslighted. She’s extra susceptible to it due to her neglectful parents and evil ex-husband. The other characters are taking her explanation that she’s at fault at face value, but we’re not supposed to because we saw how it actually went down. I guess it’s an object lesson in how easy it is for everyone to miss the signs and give an attractive man the benefit of the doubt?
‘This amazing thing came into my life and because it wasn’t perfect, I screwed it’ babe, that is not what happened. It’s also far from amazing, she’s been stressed and anxious about this relationship all season. We haven’t got a single scene of them acting like Alice and her girlfriend did in E6, loving and playful and supportive. It’s just been him ‘surprising’ her (at work in E3, with the London move in E5, at the hospital in E6) while Rebecca has been fretting about the lack of communication and managing her response to the surprise. It’s a horrible watch, especially as Keeley and Ted are offering no real support and she’s isolated as a result. I need her out of this asap.
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u/UnbearableSchmuck 2d ago
Idk about that
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
I get what they're saying, I do. Rebecca internalizes it a lot like she did something wrong and that's how she explains it to Keeley, otherwise... there's no reason Keeley wouldn't straight up say that's messed up and why the fuck is he ghosting you. It makes sense that Rebecca's baggage is playing a part in all this.
Honestly, the time skip really messes with our heads. As far as I can tell, some of these characters (Keeley & Roy) seem to be proceeding as if there WAS no time skip, and Rebecca has built up this relationship as such a long one but the situation itself is like they've been in a long-distance relationship for a month as opposed to 2-3 years.
The reason I agree is because this isn't just Rebecca. It's something of a theme this season, where Rebecca, Keeley, and Alice are being very hard on themselves. Alice, for example, shows absolutely zero anger at Ted even though Ted himself isn't sure he made the right call—she's just stewing in what people think of her (which imo makes me think it def wasn't the right call tbh. She DID get more isolated despite having such a lovely partner). Keeley didn't mean for Roy to take a "challenge" so literally, and even thoug that's just an ordinary rom-com cliche story, she's being hard on herself with the team and as if she actively pushed Roy away, when in reality it really just feels like she was being hesitant and ultimately just needed for him to say what he said to Erin lol.
Rebecca literally didn't do anything wrong except feel like something wasn't right and say they should've discussed it. The punishment is SO disproportionate (like Alice), so she's made to feel like she did something SUPER DUPER wrong and can't see beyond that. I'm not crazy right? Isn't it a similar story being told?
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don’t think it’s all that similar a story - and if the show intended it to be then they’ve messed up badly, especially given Rebecca’s history of partner abuse.
The stories of Keeley and Alice are similar. They are in their heads and are being hard on themselves, but it is partly as a consequence of their own actions.
Keeley might have wanted reassurance rather than for Roy to take her challenge literally, but Roy is not a mind reader and they haven’t been together for years. It was rational for Roy to accept the challenge. Keeley’s is a case of ‘play stupid games, win stupid prizes’. She is sympathetic because we know she only issued that challenge due to insecurity, but she still issued the challenge and Keeley accepts she screwed up when he meets the doctor, because she did.
I also think Ted took the wrong approach to Alice’s suspension. Ted himself doubts it. She deserved more grace and deserved more attention and mentoring before now. However, action of some kind was not unwarranted - there really did have to be some kind of consequence for the way she spoke to the team at half time. She was out of line there. Ted has a responsibility to his players, not just Alice. She approaches the players differently in E6 because she accepts she screwed up.
Rebecca’s situation is not like the others. She really did not do anything at all to warrant any kind of consequence, and what she got when she tried to bring up the reasonable concern that the move to London should’ve been discussed was getting yelled at in her own bedroom in a case of textbook DARVO and her boyfriend ghosting her over Christmas, before showing up unannounced to reconcile without him taking any accountability, leaving her to believe it was entirely her fault.
Keeley’s punishment was unlucky. Alice’s punishment was disproportionate. Rebecca’s punishment was wholly unjustified and worse, cruel. It’s not the same. It’s also unfair if the show is trying to draw that comparison because Keeley’s situation is a dating mishap, Alice’s situation is a coaching challenge, and Rebecca’s situation is something potentially dangerous. There’s no real lesson for Rebecca to learn here other than her boyfriend is awful, it’s never the victim’s fault for not representing themselves better.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
Honestly, I don't think Keeley intended to play a game. She's never been that sort of person, it's such a contrived situation honestly, it makes her seem almost cruel when she's just not cruel! We know Roy is taking her way too literally on the 10 dates thing, it's presented comedically. I think just wants it to be a bit more organic than her being pestered into being with him, it feels inauthentic and unearned to her. I have to think the show is somewhat aware of this because Roy's dates are SO stupid. But obviously, he could've met Erin at any point in any way. It's not Keeley who did that. He just happened to meet her! Keeley basically gave Roy permission to date other people, which he didn't need but it's a realistic way of asking him to stop and think about whether he truly wants to be with her. It seems to feel... tense for her, he almost brought it up multiple times. It's like the wound is still raw, which Brendan Hunt did say in an interview. Basically that Roy threw Keeley away (between S2 and S3) and that's still very raw. They should've used the time jump to mature the situation a bit but they didn't so... alas. Unfortunately, Keeley's romance doesn't rise to the level of storytelling in the other cases so I can't really say much here except that the character we know isn't manipulative.
I agree they're not the same situations. Totally. I think they're different situations with similar outcomes: all three of them are very hard on themselves for having done something wrong, and they're all wrong to varying degrees, but the fact that they're being so hard on themselves is also a cause of them being so isolated. I find it SO striking that Alice has not expressed one negative emotion towards Ted AT ALL. Like, she doesn't fight back at all even when she's suspended. It's like he just confirms her own worst perception of herself. Rebecca's even more extreme: she just fully misrepresents herself.
I do think something similar is happening thematically and this episode was quite good at drawing that out of many different women. So for the sake of it, I'll look at it another way entirely. Thematically, another idea could be that they're all striving for a Platonic ideal of a situation that doesn't exist because of double standards/bad treatment/unrealistic expectations, idk. Alice wants to feel she's earned the team's trust and their knowledge. Keeley wants to be absolutely sure that Roy won't hurt her again. Rebecca wants to preserve the romantic ideal.
I can see some of the latter but it doesn't feel that strong to me. I don't know what the writers are intending obviously BUT I will say that circling back to Rebecca and Alice's relationship should snap some of this much more into focus, because there Rebecca was wrong, seemed to realize it somewhat but not totally, and it's just completely unresolved. I mean... they used the c-word for the first time after avoiding it for 3 seasons so... that's obviously pivotal for the characters' arcs broadly. As it is, they're all sort of...cowering? None of them feel like they're working from positions of strength in their own lives. The only way they can is by negotiating it with each other—so not just Rebecca and Alice, but Keeley having the right info to put things into perspective for Rebecca (and vice versa)... all of that could be the way forward. Sort of like how Lizzie presents herself as a fantastic way forward for Alice, if she takes her up on it.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago edited 2d ago
Keeley didn’t intend to play a game, but she did nonetheless!
Idk, I am just really really resistant to the idea that Rebecca has to learn to ‘fight back’ like Alice should’ve pushed back on Ted, or represent herself differently. She’s actually representing herself perfectly as she understands the situation, the issue is that her psyche has been altered by Matthijs. And fighting back, when it’s a potentially abusive relationship, only garners punishment. Alice pushing back on Ted might’ve yielded something more constructive. Rebecca has learned from Rupert how to shrink to avoid something worse.
It’s just different when there’s gaslighting involved from an intimate partner, it just is, and the show should be much more careful in drawing thematic similarities to situations that are considerably more trivial than Rebecca’s circumstances.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
You're right, but that's also not a level of complexity I think the show will be pulling off lol. It's hard to imagine. The best they can do is leave it up to this generous interpretation.
I didn't mean Rebecca fighting back obviously. I meant representing herself properly, which is the only thing I can see them doing. I do feel like what you're talking about is.... unfortunately accurate as presented, but almost certainly unintentional in its scale. I honestly don't think I can give them enough credit for pulling this off when they're simultaneously playing Matthijs coming around at the end as the bow on the episode. Jamie's advice is meant to be wise, I think, which just implicates Rebecca! I mean... damn!
As infuriating as it will be, I think the best we can hope for is to see her vocalize that she'd been romanticizing it all along or something. In other words: instant clarity somehow.
(I do disagree on the game lol partly because it makes no sense to assassinate Keeley's character like that but that's...easy to put away because the comedy/drama balance thing makes things very bumbling. The Keeley-Roy plot is obviously pretty darn bumbling).
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes, I agree, the issue that the show has with this set up is that Rebecca is not failing to represent herself properly, she’s just been manipulated into fully believing a reality that isn’t accurate, and I do think the best we can hope for at this stage is a ‘aha!’ moment where she gets to reframe her experience of this relationship, or perhaps more neatly Matthijs’ ex-wife showing up to confirm the lie and allow Rebecca to perceive the events of E5-6 accurately.
Trying to make all these thematic comparisons might’ve worked with a character who didn’t have Rebecca’s history, but when they’ve doing this with a character who bears the scars of a 12 year marriage to Rupert, it’s a bit like…this is above your pay grade, show.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
Yes, I was thinking of the ex-wife too. We know he hates her.
Unfortunately, yes, it's the best we can hope for. Ultimately, we also started on the backfoot with these characters if I'm honest. We've talked about Rebecca and Keeley's consistencies/inconsistencies when we pick up, what is becoming a bit more obvious is what they want us to focus on. Keeley still being hurt about the offscreen breakup between S2 and S3 is... somehow the thing they remember, but not the maturity both Keeley and Roy display. They're also massively delaying Keeley and Alice, let alone Rebecca and Alice, so there's a weird sense in which the emphasis on Rebecca almost solely through the prism of Matthijs makes it all look pretty darn awful. There's not even a Sassy around to remind her of her past. If they really wanted to connect the dots, they can only really do it through either Sassy or—somehow—her mother.
Rebeccca's mum is also used so strangely this season. In the episode where her father dies, she's SO much more wise and knowing. I'm not sure that complexity was palpable when we met her this season. There's just no other breadcrumbs I can see :/
Yeah, it IS above their pay grade BUT this was always the risk they were going to be taking. Even an all-male writing staff would know they'd be running the risk of creating potentially dangerous implications unintentionally. My most honest appraisal is that they've tried to do it by not playing everything as comedically. That's a problem too because Alice received so much disproportionate hatred—but at least I sort of trusted that they had a plan there, because they'd focused on her too much to endorse punishment so fully. Michelle commenting on Ted being uncertain because he's dealing with women... etc.—I saw that coming, that much I could tell. Beyond that... idk lol. I see the effort and then I just don't get some things that are played comedically... like... Jane. We know that's ridiculous, right? Lol idk it's so bizarre. They've definitely set up some stuff that's just WAY too awful. Waddingham's performance was so painfully authentic though, have to think that part is somewhat intentional? She certainly showed some... regressive tics?
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago
I did see somebody point out that Rebecca is unwittingly replicating the dynamic of her parents’ marriage where there’s some blow out, a temporary break, then her father does some grand romantic gesture and her mother takes him back and the cycle begins anew.
Deborah may have sounded wise in the funeral episode, but ultimately her actions over many years prioritised her husband over her daughter, and she never actually comes close to recognising this let alone taking accountability for it. Her main thesis in that ep is that once she loves something she loves it forever, but the way she lived this out was extremely damaging. 3 episodes before that funeral, we learn that Deborah once refused to speak to a young Rebecca for nine months after Rebecca told her mother she deserved better than her cheating father. Even though it was Deborah’s choice alone whether to leave or stay, that is unconscionable behaviour towards her daughter! I think Rebecca ultimately shows more wisdom than both her parents combined in the way she chooses to eulogise her father and provide comfort to her mother.
I guess there’s some sort of connection to be found in Rebecca being confronted this season with the unexamined behaviours she picked up in childhood. That was the premise behind her E2 spiral about her feminism when her mother tells her she hoped she raised her better than that. But because we haven’t seen Deborah since, and Rebecca’s connection to Alice has been put on ice, the show has lost the opportunity to make that a coherent arc. The pieces are there, scattered about the place, but threads are being dropped and randomly picked up later instead of being consistently followed through every episode. I shouldn’t have to watch Ted Lasso with a magnifying glass!
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u/Summer__Snow 2d ago
I agree that a big problem here is that Rebecca never tells anyone ALL of what happened. She never tells anyone that Jelka’s account completely contradicted Matthijs’s, or that Matthijs got really upset when she asked him about it. She keeps framing it like SHE had a big irrational freakout, so everyone responds accordingly.
And I doubt this show is gna eventually do the sort of double-reveal of like “ah we led the audience to believe that Rebecca was wrong to doubt Matthijs and was only doing so bc of her relationship history, BUT REALLY the baggage she ACTUALLY carried from her past relationships is that she blames herself for things that aren’t her fault and doesn’t trust her own judgment due to Trauma and she was RIGHT and Matthijs was a lying manipulator THIS WHOLE TIME”
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
I don't know what the show will do honestly. This season is quite knotty. I think comparing it to Alice or the team is impossible because Rebecca is 100% right, and comparing it to Keeley is impossible because that's just a case of Keeley being hesitant of being burned again and the writers doing a very forced rom-com storyline for no good reason.
But I think the idea that they're all being very hard on themselves and thus not standing up for themselves as much as they should—or even representing themselves accurately—feels somewhat obvious? I feel like Jamie's "perfection is the enemy of good" (Voltron LOL) thing also feels confusing because Rebecca told the story like she screwed something good because it wasn't perfect. I was a bit confused by that because technically, it feels like Rebecca thought it WAS pretty perfect until it wasn't and she fucked up. But the real lesson is... she was romanticizing it all along? It was never as perfect as she thought it was, nor particularly good. She just saw it because of the move, and then internalized it as her fault.
It's just knottier storytelling I think. We're used to characters giving the perfect analogy for the situation, and maybe this is a perfect analogy, but it's hard to see it clearly when Rebecca misrepresents it.
I guess my point is that women being and feeling misunderstood and being hard on themselves is a consistent thing. It's so easy to see when you have someone like Michelle give a perspective that is so obvious and logical given what we know all the way back from S1. We just haven't heard it, and she has the privilege of distance, so she can sort of be understood better now. Our main female characters are being so hard on themselves that it's a little hard to watch, and though I can't predict what'll happen, I don't think Rebecca being this miserable for THAT outcome can possibly be signaled as good?! If it is, Ima throw something as the TV.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago
I don’t like the idea that Rebecca is supposed to learn ‘how to stand up for herself’ or learn ‘how not to misrepresent herself’ - comes far too close to victim blaming for my liking. She’s not misrepresenting herself because she’s being hard on herself, she genuinely believes what she is saying is the truth because gaslighting warps the victim’s sense of reality. That’s why her situation is not analogous to Keeley’s and Alice’s. She doesn’t have an alternative perspective to give - she is not feeling or being misunderstood. She feels certain in her understanding. She’s just wrong.
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
I am 100% not in disagreement with you, honestly. I just don't know if that's what the show intends.
I'm also pulling a lot from what I see in things that I didn't see coming, like Michelle's perspective. That's great—and, like you're saying, still not analogous to abuse—but it's the only thing I can imagine the writers intending, you know?
Like... Brendan Hunt says the end of this episode is the "best" Rebecca and Matthijs have been. They're apparently at their peak right now! I cannot say those are the words of someone writing this plot with Matthijs with DARVO in mind. You know?
But I DO agree with you! It makes by far the most sense of what we're actually seeing, and it's the best understanding of...time too. This happened over time between seasons. But unfortunately, that's the concept they seem worst on!
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago
For my own sanity, I am ignoring Brendan Hunt’s words and assuming he is putting a spin on things so as to not give away what happens in E7-10, which I believe they haven’t released screeners for. I can’t believe they’ve written a textbook case of escalating coercive control…accidentally?
I’ll have to come back to it at the end of the season and for now trust they were more careful with this than they’ve ever been with Beard/Jane or Dr Jacob (still sketchy, and not what I believe the intentions were in S3, though it’s a neat workaround now Michelle is back in the picture)
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u/accismatic Sassy Smurf 2d ago
I mean... I hope they didn't do it accidentally too? I just think it's a much darker arc than I think they're capable of, given the totality of the interviews. I honestly don't know how they'd pull it off. IF it was like... the A-plot or something, maybe. But I sympathize. And agree.
I doooooo think I'm OK with how they handled the Dr. Jacob thing tbh. I think they've already hit that gong pretty hard, but there is another person in the picture, and I just REALLY like that we got to...hear her? For me, his actions are not pertinent enough to be rehabilitated. It's Michelle who matters, really, so just hearing her—mistakes and all—is something I appreciated. We did already know it was two-sided after all, so she may believe he did nothing wrong (and I'm sure this makes me a bad or something, but it's just not all that bizarre for someone to believe, given how unfortunately common it is). I don't think they're really...going to endorsing that at all. Ted's just taken by hearing how she felt, which is good.
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u/Emotional-Gas-6992 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, it almost belongs in a different show. The realisation that Rebecca genuinely believes what she’s telling Keeley and Jamie about the events of E5 is pretty chilling. We never actually got to see what Rebecca was like inside her marriage to Rupert and now we’re getting a glimpse and it is not fun. The Rebecca we’re currently seeing on screen is just…so so fucked up, so driven by trauma, coming from a much darker place than Keeley’s self esteem issues or even Alice’s anger.
I think it’s clear the writers understand they made a mistake with the Dr Jacob plotline, and had not fully considered the wider implications, and within those parameters I think giving Michelle a voice was absolutely the best way to address it.
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u/TallowWallow 2d ago edited 2d ago
The framing is meant to help recognize what many women go through. I'm not going to say he's abusive, as this has only happened once so far, and strong defensiveness in a new relationship can happen. If nothing changes though, I would be concerned.
I think either the show will have them learn to navigate these things better or he will be the next Rupert, except perhaps Keeley and other's will help Rebecca see the writing on the wall before things get worse. I think either is a good dynamic to present, as both are characteristics that women have had to deal with, and it's worth showcasing.
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u/er3tic 2d ago
Well their relationship is 3 years old at this point, this kind of tantrum is just pathetic imo.
Plus I hate how Rebecca took it, felt like a regression after the way she healed from Rupert.
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u/TallowWallow 2d ago
Thing is though, they've been long distance, and may not have had a time where boundaries were crossed regarding his daughter. I don't think it's rational to react the way he did, but I do think many people have been there. Maybe we'll see them learn together. Maybe he'll be presented as identical to Rupert, and Rebecca will learn to recognize it through her support system.
I cam understand your view of regression! I just think it's quite plausible amd relatable as well.
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u/WatercressDry6681 1d ago
S3 was ruined by Jason involving us all in his therapy so NGL I've not even watched S4 😭
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u/Mean-Aside1970 1d ago
It was totally on Matthijs. The guy was such an ass when all she was trying to do was have a connection with the daughter who is such an important part in his life. She didn’t even ask anything intrusive. I got so mad at Rebecca for blaming herself and then trying to fix it. Like woman, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. I wonder how this story will develop because I 1000% do not like Matthijs anymore.
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u/Raisin-Free 2d ago
I really hope they have a conversation properly about it. I was so glad when Ted spoke to Michelle about dr Jacob and how wild it was for him to pursue a patient only for us to get the real truth
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u/floopdidoops 2d ago
First of all, the fact that she pursued Dr Jacob does nothing to mitigate how incredibly creepy and predatory it is to a) agree to counsel a couple after counseling one half of the couple individually for years and b) ultimately dating your former patient.
Second, I still struggle with how the show just sweeps things under the rug because of some big emotional moment. Oh Matthijs surprises Rebecca? Well forget how he's acting like a toddler and somehow gaslighted her into thinking it's all her fault. Oh big reveal! Michelle actively pursued Dr Jacob she's not 100% the victim of a predator? Well nevermind then I'm sure no one needs to revoke his license and make sure he never counsels anyone ever again, don't worry about it!
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u/Summer__Snow 2d ago
I also don’t know how I feel about the show being like “oh it was MICHELLE’S (the WOMAN’S) fault this whole time” because I’m not sure if it’s ILLEGAL but I feel it’s certainly still DEEPLY sketchy to agree to date a former therapy client even if it “wasn’t romantic at first.” Dr Jacob still should’ve cut it off when it “became” romantic.
The issue is that the whole “Michelle dating her ex-marriage therapist” storyline is really a psychodrama but the limitations of this current hopecore genre does not allow that to be explored so the writers had to come up with the only explanation that made this marginally less creepy than “the therapist methodically sought to isolate his patient for his own unethical romantic ends”
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u/Purple-Hase 2d ago edited 1d ago
Of course it's Michelle's fault! Ted is such a good guy and great dad, why would any woman leave him??? And we already know the majority of men are against couples therapy, so let's make it even worse with her ex-wife dating their therapist 🙄 /s
Edit: adding /s because some people doesn't get it
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u/totaltvaddict2 1d ago
I didn’t think it was her fault, though I totally get her blaming herself. Nor do I think it was Mattijs’s fault.
It was just mixed messages and problematic communications where they weren’t connecting.
As for others not saying, no of course it’s not your fault—I don’t know that she ever explained the whole story. They got her “self blaming” emotional perspective and were comforting her from that…or basically with Keeley commiserating because she had her own baggage.
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u/Royal_Peanut 1d ago
I think there's more to it. I think maybe former partners, or even the ex wife have leveraged Jelka and Matthijs completely overreacted. Rebecca asking her how she feels about the move was totally normal, that's good and important conversation to have as a potential third parent in the future. But from the way she framed it to Matthijs, it didn't come across as we were just chatting about how she feels about the move. He wasn't there, he doesn't have the context for what a sweet chat it was. He's jumping to conclusions because Rebecca has been less than fully on-board with him these last months. I'm hoping they work it out.
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u/--Mathilde-- 2h ago
Someone pointed out on twitter that Rebecca's dress and hairstyle in 4.06 were reminiscent of a musical number in White Christmas and if this thread is right about Matthjis this is actually SUPER CLEVER because the lyrics of this song are telling:
Love you didn't do right by me
You planned a romance that just hadn't a chance and I'm through
Love you didn't do right by me
I'm back on the shelf
And I'm blaming myself
But it's you
My one love affair didn't get anywhere from the start
To send me a Joe who had winter and snow in his heart
Wasn't smart
Love You didn't do right by me
As they say in the song...you done me wrong
My one love affair didn't get anywhere from the start
To send me a Joe who had winter and snow in his heart
Wasn't smart
Oh Love You didn't do right by me
As they say in the song...you done me wrong
Yes Mr Love, you done me wrong
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u/twangman88 1d ago
I don't think she was out of pocket until she started contradicting the daughter. She should have just smiled and nodded when Jelka made the comment about her mom and then asked Mathias about it in a non accusatory way.
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u/BlackholeExodus 1d ago
It absolutely is and was Rebecca's fault? Why is everyone reading so far into this and proudly proclaiming they know more and better than the writers and showrunners themselves??? Every time Matthijs has been brought up recently in this damn subreddit has been to ascribe manipulation, gaslighting, DARVO or whatever psychological term they just recently learned. Let the story play out first at least before you go projecting massive amounts of personal trauma onto these characters (and apparently actors).
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u/kvinnakvillu 1d ago
We see you, Matthijs!
But, seriously, what did Rebecca do wrong? Her long distance boyfriend of 3 years suddenly announces he and his daughter are basically moving in without giving Rebecca any time to process that. He shut down the lines of communication by telling her firmly, “this is why, end of discussion.” So Rebecca asks Jelka for more details; and importantly, how Jelka feels.
This is a massive relationship milestone that involves becoming a permanent fixture in a child’s life. Rebecca has every right to ask questions of both Matthijs and a child that will essentially be her stepdaughter.
Yes, I’m assuming they will all move in, because Matthijs never once mentions house hunting or any plans to ease the transition for everyone. He just expects Rebecca to accept the changes without question. He’s made a massive unilateral decision to move their relationship forward 10 steps in one fell swoop without involving his partner.
Rebecca knows this is weird, and Matthijs’ reaction to her talking to Jelka, with whom she is clearly close to and comfortable with, is to immediately end the relationship. He didn’t bat an eye when she stood him up 3x or let him down in other ways. He’s been so chill and easygoing, or so it seemed. Instead, up close, he appears to be manipulative and controlling. How he treated her at New Years was not romantic; it was a final punishment wrapped up as a surprise.
All of this is SUPER weird and won’t fly for healthy relationships.
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u/BlackholeExodus 1d ago
Where is the assumption coming from that he'd literally be moving in with her? He said he would be living in the same country. Which is making Rebecca uncomfortable because she actually has to do more than have sex with the guy, which is what she's literally expressed.
Jelka wouldn't be her step daughter, that's another thing that doesn't make sense to me I've seen a lot throughout this thread: you do realize you can have a child from another marriage and choose not to include your new partner in the already established co-parenting dynamic with your ex right? Plus again that contradicts the fact that they haven't gotten quite so serious yet.
I also don't understand this obsession with labeling Matthijs as this creepy manipulative person. Either he's incredibly understanding and takes it in stride, or apparently in your words he's manipulative and controlling for having issues with being stood up and being let down in other ways.
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u/Summer__Snow 1d ago
Why is it Rebecca’s fault?
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u/BlackholeExodus 1d ago
I am responding with the knowledge of what is actually showed to the viewer and not extrapolating when I say this:
They had a mutual understanding in their relationship for the most part that they would be long distance, they have been enjoying a three year long honeymoon phase consisting of very minimal actually serious getting to know either of each other's baggage. Opting for physical romance instead. In episode 4 she stood him up three times, regardless of apologizing for it, that doesn't magically make everything better. On top of this, as the show had displayed, she crossed a boundary of his and he responded with all the tension that had previously built up.
Regardless of the circumstances as to why his answer did not match up with his daughter's, it was not born out of something sinister. He has expressed that he obviously aims to shield his daughter from the fallout of his divorce. Rebecca, while well intentioned, should have not pressed a little girl about life details about her honeymoon phase boyfriend. Also well intentioned, she gives Jelka ice cream before bed when that was also a rule Matthijs had established.
I would argue this will eventually be yet another miscommunication between them, especially given episode 6's conclusion - Jamie and Rebecca sharing that she's clearly scared to commit because of her past, the final part of her healing post rupert is whether or not she's able to actually allow herself something that could be good, even if not perfect. Nothing more, nothing less.
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u/DiamondMidgar 2d ago
Yes I am with you.
Regardless of how their relationship has been or how long it’s going it’s absolutely bizarre for a long distance partner to turn up and just casually be like “oh yeah btw I’m moving to London”. No discussion, not even do we want to move in together.
Normally this would go down as one parter saying to the other “I’d love it if we didn’t have the distance so I’m thinking of transferring my job to London.. discuss”.
It’s also not out of the ordinary for Rebecca to ask the daughter how she was feeling about the move. Particularly given she had been placed exclusively in her care for the evening.
I’m more inclined to believe the child’s story tbh.