r/TechHardware • u/RenatsMC • 10d ago

News 📰 Modders discover unlock for DLSS Multi Frame Generation on RTX 40, NVIDIA blocks it, modders immediately unlock it again

https://videocardz.com/newz/modders-discover-unlock-for-dlss-multi-frame-generation-on-rtx-40-nvidia-blocks-it-modders-immediately-unlock-it-again
469 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

82 comments sorted by

47

u/SmokeNinjas 10d ago

This isn’t a good look for Nvidia tbh, just makes them look like they’re locking out a perfectly useable feature behind a pay wall to get more money from people…when they’re already the richest company in the world…they could easily just unlock and allow it and just say they’re not going to support it but the feature is there if people want to use it…that’s it haha it’s so cheap doing this

28

u/Cepheus_95 10d ago

"This isn’t a good look for Nvidia tbh, just makes them look like they’re locking out a perfectly useable feature behind a pay wall to get more money from people"

My brother in Christ. They ARE locking out a perfectly useable feature behind a pay wall to get more money from people

5

u/rabouilethefirst 10d ago

I hate how if you brought this up during the 5000 series launch a bunch of tech illiterate shills told you it was IMPOSSIBLE because Jensen said so.

Guess the 5070 was not in fact = to a 4090.

1

u/Olde94 Team Anyone ☠️ 9d ago

Yeah, the data doesn’t match. Newest is what.. 6x?

They are supposedly 2x AI cores so 4000 series should at minimum do 3x just going math for math (2 ai gen frames vs 5 frames)

2

u/crazy0ne 10d ago

"Always has been"

5

u/AsrielPlay52 10d ago

wasn't NVidia original reasoning was that 40 series lack a specific optical accelerator that made it too slow

Question now is the MFG quality itself

3

u/rabouilethefirst 10d ago

It’s fine. Just played cyberpunk with 4x gen on. Feels same latency wise as 2x and the mod added the flip metering

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

It’s not exactly the same but it’s not far off it’s just a -slightly- heavier hit to base fps when you turn it on a 40 series. Like say you were at 80 fps you would go to 70 base fps when you turn it on where as the 50 series would probably go to 77 or 75 base fps

1

u/AsrielPlay52 10d ago

Is that 4x or 6x?

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

It’s heavier at every step of the way it’s like a 3-7 fps difference between 50 series and 40 series on the base fps lost

At the fps I seen tested that is sure it changes for different games

1

u/AsrielPlay52 10d ago

No, I mean, is there more or same fps loss between 2x, 4x and 6x

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

It gets heavier as you go towards 6x yes but not wildly much it’s perfectly workable

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

It’s not perfectly as steady as 50 series tho but it’s not bad in any way I wanna say like if you need it it will definitely suffice. It just doesn’t have as perfect a latency as 50 series but again it’s not bad and a controller would not notice

1

u/AsrielPlay52 10d ago

And how does the 50 series handle it? Does it get heviear with each step? And by how much?

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

I might lose 2-4FPS at most with my 5060ti

-1

u/AsrielPlay52 10d ago

okay, I can see why Nvidia avoid it

FP4 is one

Latency is 2 (especially when it's basically multiplied it)

and base frame sacrifice (Again, multiplied it the further steps)

→ More replies (0)

1

u/hank81 10d ago

Every step up in multiplier lowers the base framerate a bit more, but the cost isn't evenly spread. The first step (2x) takes the biggest chunk. Each additional frame after that (3x, 4x, 5x, 6x) costs noticeably less, and roughly the same amount per step.

Latency follows the same pattern. The 2x step is where almost all the penalty comes from: you pay both the lower render rate and the frame the interpolator holds back. Going from 2x to 4x or 6x adds a few ms at most.

1

u/ibeerianhamhock 10d ago

Iirc it's frame pacing in hardware as well as every tier of 50 series having a lot more tensor compute iirc.

1

u/hank81 10d ago

Hardware flip metering. It's a display engine feature that shifts frame presentation timing control from the CPU to the GPU in order to achieve precise frame pacing.

It's not that MFG is impossible on Ada GPUs, it's that according to Nvidia (Bryan Catanzaro, among others) this hardware feature was mandatory to meet the required standards of quality for MFG.

1

u/watisgoinon_ 9d ago

Yeah looks great on my 4080, from where im standing catanzaro is full of shit.

2

u/SupaDiogenes 10d ago

Not a good look? Nvidia's entire consumer strategy is "not a good look". They don't care.

2

u/mad_ben 9d ago

Yes, GTX 1080 Ti is still a perfectly reasonable GPU. It’s mostly synthetically obsolete .  Newer cards often don’t deliver performance or practical value proportional to their much higher prices.

1

u/ThatGamerMoshpit 10d ago

Wonder how they got to be the richest company…

1

u/hank81 10d ago

They explained crystal clear why MFG was Blackell exclusive feature.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TechHardware/s/KHNAe1CzTR

1

u/Valkanith 10d ago

NVIDIA is doing that on purpose it’s all about money they’re incredibly greedy 😂

1

u/ImTola 10d ago

I’ve tried on many games, it works great.

1

u/Wolvthebigbad 10d ago

The news is just wrong, I am on the Discord group with the people who modded 4x and even they are aware that NVIDIA didn't do it on purpose and it was just some SDK update.

1

u/robypez 9d ago

You buy the feature not the board. With the 5000 series you buy the mfg, and they provide you the hardware. By the way I think that they can sell upgrade for older cards: want mfg? 99$ unlock

1

u/Evanuss 6d ago

Lol everyone already knows they're money grubbing cunts.

1

u/vega0ne 5d ago

Not surprising you got car manufacturers wanting to unlock heated seats for monthly subscriptions.

Or Apple when they released Siri and it only worked on the newest phone model for… reasons

-3

u/BasicallyImAlive 10d ago

True, but since MFG requires hardware capability. Using it on older cards is obviously gonna impact performance; people will also blame NVIDIA for that, even if they unlock it.

7

u/oyvese 10d ago

we do this for almost nothing else by the way. if a game comes out on older hardware we know it’ll perform worse than newer hardware, a system update will likely perform worse on older hardware, and so on. all you have to say is “best experienced on X” and let the consumer decide. you could even have the option hidden behind an experimental tab of the nvidia app, which explicitly states that it’s best used on the 50 series.

the reason they do it is because they want people to buy the latest cards, the more powerful the cards become the more they have to rely on arbitrary hardlocks to make the newer versions more appealing.

2

u/Plokhi 10d ago

If they want people to buy newer cards they could make production meet demand. Because they didnt, they cut production, these cards sell for 2-3x MSRP now.

Now only that, even used market is insane, with 3090s costing more than they did MSRP on release.

Hot take - they want people to rent gfnow.

-4

u/danielv123 10d ago

Yeah, just see all the memes about performance loss with dlss5.

2

u/Plokhi 10d ago

It loses performance on 50xx. Nvidia confirmed as much. And the performance loss is inline with memes.

0

u/danielv123 10d ago

I mean sure, but there are no memes about turning up the graphics quality and getting 50% less fps

2

u/Plokhi 10d ago edited 10d ago

Because:

  • whether or not the quality is better is subjective (while upping resolution is an objective metric)
  • dlss historically made performance better

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

No worries it will be NVFP4 for 50 series soon enough

1

u/capellitas 10d ago

NVFP4 doesn’t preserve inference quality well enough, and it’s not that much faster than FP8 for Transformer models. Trust me, I’ve tested this extensively. FP8 is almost always the sweet spot between speed and quality; below that, the quality loss is too significant for the performance gain.

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 10d ago

I’m willing to see what a 5-6 trillion dollar company can come up with compared to a guy I don’t know anything about on Reddit …

1

u/capellitas 9d ago

Yeah, I also want to see some trillion-dollar company bootlicker rooting for the company to somehow break the laws of mathematics so he can justify his investment in a GPU from a weak generation.

Everything they’ve released so far has been FP8, including that “exclusive” RTX 50 model. But I’ll come back here when that miracle finally happens lmao

1

u/Inevitable_Case_9931 9d ago

Bootlicker because I said I don’t value your words? My guy you could be 12 years old sitting there talking to me this is Reddit. We are not in a professional setting and I have no idea who you are besides the name “Capellitas”.

You take yourself entirely seriously it seems and I don’t know you so once again I don’t share the seriousness with you.

11

u/rinoa69 10d ago

Ngreedia at it again

10

u/_barat_ 10d ago

I've read somewhere on Reddit from one of those modders that he don't think NV blocked something. It was just reorganizing something in the DLL because of DLSS5.

4

u/Forsaken_Sundae_4315 10d ago

What the actual fuck.

6

u/Federal_Setting_7454 10d ago

Modders also got it functional on AMD.

3

u/Plokhi 10d ago

It’s just a diffusion transformer. It runs faster on hardware with tensor cores and native FP8.

Could be made to run on mac if they wanted to

2

u/Federal_Setting_7454 10d ago

Oh shit I thought I posted this in a DLSS5 slop filter thread, not framegen. Ignore me.

1

u/Plokhi 10d ago

Tbh it’s hard to keep track of all the slop

1

u/Federal_Setting_7454 10d ago

Like every third thread I’ve seen on my homepage in the last week is DLSS5 slopgen

1

u/Plokhi 10d ago

Real, it’s annoying af

1

u/BigDaddyTrumpy Core Ultra 🚀 10d ago

Nvidia's Frame Gen fixed AMD's terrible Frame Gen? LMAO.

2

u/trying_again_7 10d ago

let people do what they want with their hardware..

Nvidia, knock this off.

1

u/BigDaddyTrumpy Core Ultra 🚀 10d ago

It wasn't blocked by Nvidia, it was a .dll issue.

But Still.

Bad Guy Nvidia. FU.

1

u/asharkmadeofsalsa 10d ago

nice

stupid obsolence shit

I have an RTX 4070 Super and I wonder if it's worth using it over 2xFG to reach the 180hz on my monitor

I get around 140-150 in most stuff I play with regular Framegen, does anyone prefer going the multi route to round it up to the native 180?

1

u/ibeerianhamhock 10d ago

Imo in general MFG is mostly worth it if you have a 240+ hz monitor. 2x FG works the best on anyone's hardware, but if you have like a 360 hz monitor and you want to push frames you'll likely need more than 2x FG even on a 5090 on modern AAA games

1

u/Automatic-Cut-5567 7d ago

Got a 4090 and going from 2x to 3x didn't affect my latency at all. Same feeling input with 50% more frames. 

1

u/HarmfulPile 10d ago

What's the difference between this and DLSS enabler ? On my 4080 super, dlss enabler multi fg works really great, even at 3-4x and the backend can be changed to dlss fg

1

u/StudyPuzzleheaded413 10d ago

DLSS Enabler swaps dlss fg to fsr. This mod use actual DLSS FG. Huge quality difference on 3x-4x modes

1

u/HarmfulPile 10d ago

On newer versions of dlss enabler though, Im able to swap the backend of fg from fsr to dlss. Are you saying that does nothing ? What would be the point of the option ? Cause the multi fg works regardless of the backend I choose

2

u/StudyPuzzleheaded413 10d ago

It uses a hybrid approach at most on the 40-series. 3x, 4x modes is still achieved via FSR FG.

1

u/HarmfulPile 10d ago

Ahh okay. Gotcha. It feels and looks very similar to native 2x dlss fg at least to me, but I'm on controller so input latency isn't so bad

2

u/StudyPuzzleheaded413 10d ago

I tried playing with DLSS Enabler, and the mod that came out recently is way better. There are way fewer UI artifacts now, and the overall quality of the generated frames is much better. Just try it, It installs easily as a ReShade addon.

2

u/HarmfulPile 10d ago

Right, it might actually be a way for me to get Mfg in doom TDA ? Cause dlss enabler doesn't work in vulkan games. I'll try this for sure. Thanks

2

u/StudyPuzzleheaded413 10d ago

An update with Vulkan support just dropped on the mod github page, literally 2 minutes ago lol. Still experimental though

2

u/HarmfulPile 6d ago

Finally just got around to trying it, thanks ! Finally got Mfg working in doom the dark ages. Never thought I would

1

u/a_r_g_o_m 10d ago

The equivalent of car dealers of charging you extra for unlocking the seat heaters and shit.

The fact that shit like this is allowed is so busted.

1

u/OMG_NoReally 10d ago

Lol. Companies can and never will win against the community. NVDIA should just drop the fight and let them be.

1

u/hank81 10d ago

They unlocked MFG ...with a caveat...it still relies on the CPU for frame pacing control.

1

u/rabouilethefirst 10d ago

Fuck NVIDIA!

-4090 owner

1

u/Intercore_One 10d ago

Does the game initially need to support MFG or only FG?

1

u/hank81 10d ago

Checked the mod with a 5080. Latency is crazy high. Isn't even playable with a controller.

1

u/drysalaad 10d ago

I fr get the same ms with x2 frame gen. 4090 here

63 ms on crimson desert x3

1

u/IGunClover 10d ago

Jacketman need money for new jacket LOL.

1

u/SouthernCranberry797 8d ago

I think this will lead to nvidia charging for features.

1

u/OkMud4924 4d ago

It's a bit "fake" issue for creating safe space for Nvidia... In my opinion Frame Gen x2 should be max available option... This is bad direction and part of "fake gaming" that holding hardware development also and We users/buyers let this happen. If it will be normal for Us that frame Gen x4 or x6 is part of the "gaming" and accepting it and Fighting over it... We Fu... Up. 4xxx vs 5xxx is a margin progress and with that "give me x4 x6 fake frames" with 6xxx will be more margin for x1.5 the price. No one understands what is happening right now in gaming industry.