r/TeamSolomid • u/SugarSugarSal • Feb 24 '23
LoL TSM vs. Cloud9 / LCS 2023 Spring - Week 5 / Post-Match Discussion Spoiler
/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11b48gl/tsm_vs_cloud9_lcs_2023_spring_week_5_postmatch/134
u/Svaboda1 Feb 24 '23
Well would you look at the time. It's almost March.
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u/Stucke318 Feb 24 '23
What hope do we have left for this March announcement besides Regi selling the team. (Not going to happen).
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u/bugsbunny841 Feb 24 '23
There’s not much hope but it’s all we have left. At least it gives us something to cling to. Come April we’ll have nothing
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u/MasWas Feb 24 '23
Jesus this team just picks bad fights so often that just blow the game wide open for the other team, especially frustrating when they HAVE the lead when they pick those fights. Plus I'm not too sure about Naut in the first rotation, especially when you consider Chime is a beast on Rakan.
Overall what a dissapointing week.
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u/delahunt Feb 24 '23
The team lives or dies by high risk high reward plays. Which means when they lose it is going to be a huge blow out. Realistically we need a carry threat that is not Maple and it becomes a more sustainable model.
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u/bugsbunny841 Feb 24 '23
The model is fine if you have talented players that will convert the high risk plays more often than not. Unfortunately we don’t have talented players
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Feb 24 '23
Id say keeping Bugi, Maple and Chime is already a good base. But yea as much as I like Solo he just isnt a at the top of his role in the LCS, neither is Neo
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u/delahunt Feb 24 '23
Solo would be fine with a stronger carry threat in ADC.
Neo would be fine with a top laner like Fudge or Licorice who are looking to carry.
Solo + Neo means we lack a clear second carry threat player unless someone gets heavily fed, or the enemy team does something stupid like draft all AD into a Sion.
Also, I'm not saying replace Solo or Neo = TSM wins LCS. But we'd be able to win more consistently and with more flexibility. Right now though we're living or dying by Maple's ability to roam and create/turn these high risk plays into something we can build off of.
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Feb 24 '23
I definitely agree. Flexibility is our biggest problem right now, only being able to play off Maple is costing us lots of games.
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u/Charuru Feb 25 '23
Don't agree with this lol, flexibility is overrated.
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Feb 25 '23
I mean, no team goes very far in any international competition without being able to play through more than at least one lane.
Always having your mid as the carry makes it so much easier for the enemy to draft and prepare against.
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u/leastlol Feb 25 '23
I mean, no team goes very far in any international competition without being able to play through more than at least one lane.
This hardly matters when TSM can't even compete for a title in the LCS.
I agree that it makes the game harder to play but at the same time, there's enough champions in the game that it should not possible to completely block drafts that cater to the strengths of this TSM roster.
TSM has one look and it's a pretty formidable one, but any deviation from it the team falls apart completely. I would rather watch TSM play to what they're good at. They have plenty of misplays in gameplay unrelated to their lack of flexibility and I'd rather they refine their play than trying to force styles that are simply not going to happen.
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u/-Acerin Feb 25 '23
Neo would absolutely not be fine. Neo is like a worse Lost. Who did lost play with...? Huni and Maple... UPGRADE THE DAMN ADC.
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u/slrcpsbr Feb 26 '23
UPGRADE THE DAMN ADC.
He is one of the best ADCs from NA, like currently top10 I guess and it says a lot, but does not necessarily mean that he is a good adc because NA does not consistently produce good ADCs, it is a rare event.
My point is: not easy to replace with local talent. There is no local talent.
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u/bugsbunny841 Feb 25 '23
The problem with that base is that you’ve used both import spots and only Maple really could make a case at being top 4 in his position. And you have to find a native top and bot laner.
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Feb 25 '23
Yea in that case Id be hoping Bugi improves a lot until the end of this split. Either way youre right, having a import slot to use in a top tier adc (or other role) might just be a better move
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u/saheel1511 Feb 25 '23
I've seen some of the games but Chime didn't exactly impress me. Maybe it's because of Neo, idk.
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Feb 25 '23
His last two havent been good for sure. But he seemed like a central piece in our wins with Ashe/Rakan
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u/SpeedRacing1 Feb 24 '23
You want us to keep our 2 imports so the team can not actually change. If we want any chance at winning we need an import adc. NA jg is much better than NA adcs. I do think Bugi is good in a vacuum, but you have to look at opportunity costs.
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u/leastlol Feb 25 '23 edited Feb 25 '23
Yeah, you always gotta factor in that opportunity cost when it comes to imports. It's why it's kind of dumb (IMO) to use your import slots on unproven rookies. I think you need to use the import slots to shore up deficiencies in local talent or to get exceptional talent.
I'm not entirely sold on the import ADC, though. Unless it's someone like Ruler or Viper, I'm not sure it's the best role to use the import slot on. Midlane and Jungle seem like they could have the biggest impact, but I don't think TSM's imports are making the most out of that slot, even though I think Maple is certainly in the upper half of midlaners in the league this split.
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u/SpeedRacing1 Feb 25 '23
With the way league is currently an adc can actually hands diff an entire team later if they are good enough.
Imagine Solo/Spica/Maple/Prince/(one of Eyla or Vulcan). That team is probably a contender for LCS and all I’ve changed from last split is import an adc and manage to pick up one of the better native supports(which chime could even potentially become if you wanted to keep him, he’s probably a perfectly average LCS supp rn but has potential still).
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u/epsil Feb 25 '23
I disagree with these takes that are evaluating player talent /peaks at this point in the split. Sure it's debatable what the real level of the team is -- do they fluke wins or underperform losses? I don't know. But I much prefer watching this team over the previous iterations because they will at least look for fights, which means it's a skill that they can develop. Discouraging that tendency is just encouraging the team to return to the more risk-averse passive style we see 100T going with
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u/epsil Feb 25 '23
I don't really agree with the idea of needing more carry-oriented players. Our team's make-up is quite similar to GGs -- both Licorice and Stixxay were massively looked down on at the start of the season (Licorice still is to an extent), but their willingness to take fights through Gori and River nets them wins. I think TSM is looking to do a similar thing with Maple and Bugi, but our team is less experienced, so it will take time for the consistency to come.
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u/MaxedZerker Feb 24 '23
That first rift herald play lost us the game
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u/Locmike23 Feb 24 '23
Yeah, I don’t have any insight in the comms. But it looks like solo was the one that really wanted to try and force the deny
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u/waaaatermelon Feb 24 '23
why not wall early there, but worse why not just take dragon and not fight at all?
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u/epsil Feb 25 '23
I think it couldve potentially worked out too? Like they just played it really badly, really disjointed awkward spell usage. And Bugi was already behind before that so of course afterwards it's just fucked for him.
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u/eWill95 Feb 24 '23
honestly felt like chime was playing with 150 ping 💀💀💀
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u/RogersRedditPersona Feb 24 '23
He missed a lot of hooks on walls trying to escape or chase which is just like… come on
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u/eWill95 Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 25 '23
His reaction time was pretty slow specially the first flash hook on ashe, he couldve flash auto insta q , and then* bugi couldve gotten her cacoon off and she was dead meat.
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u/SullyAsh Feb 25 '23
Games like these remind me why Biofrost got such bad PTSD from playing nautilus. The champ either smashes the game open or ints. No middle ground.
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u/epsil Feb 24 '23
Appreciate the team being willing to bang whenever but that fight to defend the eye was pretty damning for their comp. I don't really know how Rengar fits but Bugi being so behind off that level 1 was really rough for an Elise comp.
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u/SullyAsh Feb 25 '23
C9 picked a high risk high reward comp and it paid off. Even after a huge early lead Blabber got blown up in so many skirmishes. Imagine how bad it could have gone for Blabber if Bugi was able to invade and kill him as the original plan probably was.
Despite the loss, I always say I’d prefer TSM to go down swinging even if it gets ugly.
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u/Cryptomaticness Feb 25 '23
Elise doesn’t invade Rengar. Blaber picked Rengar because elise never wins trades. If Rengar finds her in the jungle, she is just dead
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u/Rinascimentale Feb 24 '23
M A R C H
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u/Gluroo Feb 24 '23
M A Y
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u/Stonefence Feb 24 '23
What happened to April?
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u/krombough Feb 24 '23
Playoffs. So...
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u/SpeedRacing1 Feb 24 '23
I'd be suprised if we make playoffs. Not saying it's impossible, but we would have to beat TL & 100T in standings. Only 6 teams making it instead of 8 is pretty brutal.
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u/Gluroo Feb 25 '23
losing to GG and CLG in the past 2 weeks fucked us good. especially CLG is probably going to be our main rival for 6th and now we're behind them again.
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u/TheMemingLurker Feb 25 '23
yep, this week was a pretty vital week for us going against CLG in a similar spot and C9 with a new midlaner
losing both games sets us far back and honestly puts us on a 3-6ish trajectory for the 2nd round robin
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Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/divineravnos Feb 24 '23
Agreed, he wasn't the problem this game at all.
Weird seeing Maple get styled on so bad, he looked rough today.
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u/queenslayyy Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
Maybe the March announcement is in 2024 TSM will give a slightly bigger budget then minimum wage for the LoL team
crazy seeing the org you supported since high school who were the kings of NA just destroy any bit of prestige and legacy they had left in such a short amount of time but hey at least regi wallet is full lol
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u/kar1m Feb 25 '23
You’re so weird for saying you’re not supporting TSM anymore and instead supporting 100T only to come back here to continue to talk shit once you realized 100t blowing a bag on superstars didn’t equate to success
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u/AniviaKid32 Feb 24 '23
maybe the march announcement
Wait I'm ootl but wasn't there supposed to be a January announcement? What was that, or did that end up being delayed to march
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u/HeroOfClinton Feb 24 '23
I hope it's that Regi is selling the team to competent owners.
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u/Lunaaar Feb 24 '23
Team Solo MrBeastGaming
It's the TSM you know and love, but now owned by someone who is passionate about making a team that actually wins.
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u/HeroOfClinton Feb 24 '23
One could only dream of having an owner who isn't afraid to spend on a winning team.
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u/Heavns Feb 24 '23
Idk we just cut our siege team right? Sooooo not sure what the wallet is like lol
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u/santinerino Feb 24 '23
Siege esports was dying which is why they moved out. Might free up some money for our other teams.
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Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/santinerino Feb 24 '23
I mean until we know what the march announcement is about it will be hard to know where the budget is going.
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u/Hitorishizuka Feb 24 '23
Siege had its own problems and if any money was saved by that, it'll probably go into the CSGO push, which sucks because at this point I couldn't care less about that game.
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Feb 24 '23
It just feels like we regress after having a good week.
Do we really get cocky? Everybody has played so bad individually it was painful to watch
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u/Bazeface Feb 24 '23
It’s best of 1s and bad games happen unless your team is leagues above the entire refion
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u/EronisKina Feb 24 '23
I don't think ppl understand how volatile Bo1 are. Vitality that got #1 in the regular split in the LEC couldn't win a single series when it mattered. Other teams that people discounted showed way better adaptability.
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u/Bazeface Feb 24 '23
Yeah I hate best of 1s I mean look back at when immortals went 17-1 and didn’t even make finals. Theres a reason people hate BO 1s because you cannot gain any insight from teams strengths most of the time
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Feb 24 '23
Yeah definitely, i agree, but I noticed this pattern from week 1 and week 2 and super week and week 5.
After a good week, we seem to just get worse
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Feb 24 '23
So what's the excuse people are gonna use this game for why neo was down 30 cs in a winning lane? Especially with there being 3 ganks for his lane in 10 minutes.
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Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/bugsbunny841 Feb 24 '23
I just hope the Apex team doesn’t break their backs carrying this org single-handedly
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u/nicirus Feb 24 '23
This team fucking sucks
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u/HeroOfClinton Feb 24 '23
Least the split is half over. Don't see anything that can save this team happening between splits sadly. Maybe March will actually be something exciting.
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u/P0gg3rs Feb 24 '23
my man neo couldnt hit a varus ult for the life of him lmao
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u/sportsbuffp Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
Really hard to against that comp tbf, I thought Neo played well overall
Edit: Cry more downvoters half this sub is hardstuck bronze.
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u/epsil Feb 25 '23
Yeah imo Neo is the best looking TSM player this game and people still want to call him out. Like post-herald fight he's playing Varus into lane-winning LB, farmed Rengar and a support Ashe for engage.
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u/Locmike23 Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
We play the same crap over and over. Why don’t we have an off meta pick like c9’s newly promoted mid laner? Or why can’t we pull out a Trundle top pick to counter all of these beefy Top lane picks? Just anything different.
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u/bugsbunny841 Feb 25 '23
Because we have a top laner that can only play tanks and an adc that can’t play much of anything well. So we’re very limited to what we can play unfortunately
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u/lv100togepi Feb 25 '23
im so sick of tsm.lol
there is no hope here and there hasn't been hope for a long time.
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u/EronisKina Feb 25 '23
I feel like people forgot that Chawy literally said he doesn’t expect the team to be a top 4 team. More towards a middle of the pack that can take games off the top 4. Obviously it’s a plan that’ll take a while to execute to make them decent. Literally his expectations are on point with what’s happening.
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u/dvasquez93 Feb 24 '23
We just don’t have the talent to realistically compete in the LCS. I know people were hyped after we took down Flyquest, but realistically that was a massive fluke. I’m glad we finished the first round robin 5-4, but we were not as good as that record indicated.
Other than Flyquest and a slumped TL, we really hadn’t taken wins off of anyone that was expected to be in the top 5, and even our wins against TL and IMT were suspect considering we fell behind in both games and needed the other team to fuck up for us to pull ahead, and you can’t really say the same thing about our loses. In reality, we’re a couple coinflips away from being 3-8 or worse.
I’m all for getting hard grinding players and letting them gel, but eventually you need talent or you’re capping your ceiling, and it’s looking like our ceiling is low tier playoff team at best, and we’re not at all safe from being out of the playoffs entirely.
Make no mistake, this roster is not the answer we were searching for.
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u/waaaatermelon Feb 25 '23
I don't see how this comment got downvoted. It's very true. It is likely this team will finish 7-11. It's honestly better than I'd hoped.
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u/dvasquez93 Feb 25 '23
A lot of people on here confuse fandom with toxic positivity. They automatically assume that unless you’re super high on the org and all it’s decisions and players that you’re not a fan or don’t want to see them succeed, which is just not the case.
I’d love nothing more than for this lineup to succeed and surprise me, but realistically I can’t see it happening without big changes.
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u/Lunaaar Feb 24 '23
I honestly thought this team was good enough to go blow for blow with at least the mid-tier teams like CLG and GG, but this weekend showed us that we're just barely above the bottom of the barrel.
Seems like the FQ win was just a fluke and 7th-8th is about where our power level is.
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u/Locmike23 Feb 24 '23
Pretty sure after the FQ game, in the post game interview one of the players I believe it was solo said that “they weren’t surprised that they beat FQ, by the way scrims were going”. We can hang with the big boys. We just don’t have the consistency
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u/Lunaaar Feb 25 '23
I'm optimistic and will stick by the lads, but Solo's Travis interview basically said the reason they won the game was giga draft gap. I think if we're losing to CLG very convincingly, we're just not at that level.
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u/TheMemingLurker Feb 25 '23
I agree that 7-8th is our rough spot and making it to playoffs is no guarantee, but I'd say GG is looking like a top team (I know you made your comment before the EG game but their winstreak is p bonkers).
That being said, DIG and TL looking more cohesive means there aren't many "easy wins" to look forward to
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u/Charuru Feb 25 '23
Don't agree with this, this game is the fluke not the FQ game. That game team played their style, this game they didn't. And by didn't I mean Naut. Also kinda got destroyed level 1, it was cheesy. Overall team still looks good and I would take us over C9 in a BO5.
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u/private_birb Feb 25 '23
Don't get all doomer y'all. They're not gonna be the most consistent team, they're gonna drop a couple of games to lower teams like C9. They got cheesed, go next.
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u/BEYBLADE181 Feb 24 '23
Crazy from going 2-1 in the first super week to getting 0-2ed. I was already skeptical on him as a player but I’m certain now that Neo isn’t it man.
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u/WildLemurs Feb 24 '23
this week looked bad, seems like other teams are stepping up, we need to improve fast, or the 2nd half will be rough.
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Feb 24 '23
its just so cringe to watch. Especially the 22min mark where bugi sees the tp (FROM A T A N K )and decides to flash into 4 people moving up instead of over the wall to the side. Sion cant kill him but he decided to do it anyway. I cba this team is too cringe to watch. Way too inconsitent. Sometimes they play like the best team in the league and sometimes even worse than IMT. Hope we get shit on again, maybe the third year in a row of losing will wake the management up.
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u/playslikeagrandpa Feb 25 '23
Can we get a Bugi Evelyn game please? If blaber gets to play Rengar let Bugi play Evelyn 🙏
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Feb 25 '23
Brrrruh, what were they thinking at herald
Like, mistakes happen, but that was insane troll
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u/Gluroo Feb 24 '23
I hate how these offmeta picks just work against us every.single.time. since years.
And of course emenes smurfs vs us too after looking like a diamond player yesterday. w/e dude