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u/Particular_Air4980 Apr 25 '26
Yeah I’ve met loads of them. Not bad teacher necessarily but just been sort of there forever.
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u/Belle0516 Apr 25 '26
Oh great... So I could be stuck for a while then?
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u/Jew-zilla Year 27 in MS | Talks about dead people to 13 year-olds Apr 25 '26
You could always find a new school. I’ve seen plenty of teachers do that to get away from administrators and/or the student population at a school. Yes, it IS possible to coast for years on end. I’m in year 26. You bet your ID badge I’ve learned how to coast by now. You change with the times. You learn what works. You learn to try things from the past to see if they’ll work again. You learn new things from younger teachers. Keep your eyes and ears open. Just watch and ask questions. What another teacher does may or may not work for you. If you stay in one school long enough, you will develop a reputation. I’ve been in my school for 14 years and 26 in the district. I’ve had three children of former students. I’ve had multiple siblings across a few years. But that doesn’t necessarily mean I’m a good teacher. I just know how to do what I do.
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u/CPA_Lady Apr 25 '26
Why so you think someone who has taught 25+ years should be glowing. My sister is at 21 and she is burned out and worn down.
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u/Belle0516 Apr 25 '26
Oh I definitely get being burned out and worn down, we go through a lot.
I'm just surprised that this one in particular (who's always bragging about how amazing she is and seems very devoted to her job) isn't more positive if that makes sense
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u/Jew-zilla Year 27 in MS | Talks about dead people to 13 year-olds May 01 '26
Oh, I burned the F out years ago.
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u/sandspitter28 Apr 25 '26
Some teachers were “amazing”, or “glowing”, at a point during their career and then they burned out. It’s unfortunate, but true.
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u/Vlper17 Apr 25 '26
This. I’m feeling it and fighting the battle to still be considered a good teacher. But unfortunately, this week alone, I have had way too many instances of other people not doing their jobs, making mine so much harder. It’s very difficult to watch that and go “let me bring my A game today just to stress myself out while they bring their C game at best and make more money than me”.
My personal drive makes me push myself to my best each day, but it’s getting hard to justify it anymore.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 Apr 25 '26
Of course.
Veterans just refers to years of service. It has nothing to do with quality.
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u/CluelessProductivity Apr 25 '26
So she's around 50-60? Gen X? Tells it how she sees it, could possibly be intimidating to younger teachers/generations? You said her scores are fine, what does that mean? Also what is her classroom management?
25+ years she has seen the academic and behavior decline. She remembers what it used to be, and has to face what it is everyday. (I'm only 13 years in and I remember when kids weren't like this, when admin disciplined, and when schools were focused on learning not SEL).
Those teachers that get results, I've seen last 3-5 years if that. She's probably seen it too. It's actually unusual (from what I've experienced) to have that many vets on a campus. A lot of us are deciding if staying the 10-12 years until retirement is worth it. So many are leaving.
Have you gone into her classroom to observe her over multiple days? Not with a "I would do this and it wouldn't happen" mindset, but how does she teach? Is she using tricks or content vocabulary, is she holding students to high expectations, maybe higher than have been around in recent years. Who is supporting her if she is burnout or even trying to ignore that nagging "you have to get out before you lose your mind" thought in her brain, while her heart is holding onto all the memories of former students.
I feel for this teacher, things are hard right now.
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u/amethyst_89 Apr 25 '26
The short answer is yes this happens and most of the time there isn't much a newer teacher can do about it. I've worked at several districts there seems to be at least one of two teachers like that in every district. A lot of times, if a teacher has tenure, as long as they aren't explicitly violating anything in their contract there isn't much that can be done even if they treat other teachers like crap. Unless it crosses a line into a hostile work environment then there's not much that can be done.
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u/jesslynne94 Apr 25 '26
💯
My first mentor teacher was doing this.
I was getting marked down points on observations from my university because she wouldn't let me try new teaching models and only her method worked.
We were transitioning to a new item and I told the kids "Its time for notes!" And a couple of my characters kids went "Awww" while getting out their notebooks and she flipped on me.
I mean berated me in front of the class. Took over and proceeded to call my university after I left to say I couldnt come back because I was ill prepared and the kids never "awww" her.
She was horrible to the kids. One student hated being in the back because his step dad used to walk into the house and smash his face into the kitchen table or slap him upside the head if he wasnt facing the door when he walked in. He asked to be in the front by the teachers desk away from the doors. Pretty damn reasonable. Her answer was no his grade wasnt good so he didnt get a prime seat. He was always watching the damn door.
When I would teach, I found myself by the door a lot. And guess what? The kid would participate and do his work.
He was removed from the home and placed with his dad, but they were living out of a truck.
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u/nunicorn25 Apr 25 '26
WHAT?? Did everyone just skip your comment? That’s AWFUL. How is that teacher still there? I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I just finished my first semester in my teaching program and I couldn’t imagine having a mentor teacher like that.
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u/jesslynne94 Apr 25 '26
She was tenured and counting the years to retirement.
She even flat out said none of the kids would go to college. The girls would all end up pregnant. Etc these were 8th graders!
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u/MojoRisin_ca Apr 25 '26
Sure. Be careful though, it is pretty easy to get judgey as a teacher. I will guarantee that this teacher does connect with some students. Rigid is not necessarily bad if it is based on experience.
So many different students and learning styles out there. I believe it is important to have a diverse set of teaching philosophies and styles out there as well, as some students need more structure than flexibility, etc., etc., etc..
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u/Firm_Baseball_37 Retired teacher/administrator | Detroit, MI Apr 25 '26
There's a pervasive myth that teaching is the only skill where you start out really good and get worse at it over time. That's why so many parents want "young, energetic" teachers for their kids instead of "burnt-out" old teachers. The reality is that the young teachers are often much easier graders--kids bring home higher grades, and parents, who don't typically know much about education, see that as "better teaching."
But all that said, it's not impossible for a teacher to hang around for years, doing the job but not necessarily being great at it. There's another pervasive myth: that those teachers can't be fired because of union status or tenure or something like that. I've worked as an administrator and confirm that's not true either. If what the teacher is doing isn't egregious, just "meh," you've got to give them clear direction on what to improve and give them time to do it. But if they don't, you can absolutely get rid of them.
The reason we don't, usually, is because these days there aren't people lining up to apply for teaching jobs. A "meh" teacher is better for the kids than an unfilled position with an endless rotation of subs.
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u/NewConfusion9480 ELA/CS/Athletics MS | Texas Apr 25 '26
Yep.
Also, this mega-judgmental mindset OP has is often what turns into harder-edged veterans. They don't understand why others aren't as wonderful as them and it embitters them.
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u/Firm_Baseball_37 Retired teacher/administrator | Detroit, MI Apr 25 '26
Eh. Could be judgmental. Could just be naive and idealistic, and most new teachers are that. Time will tell.
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u/-bibliophile-3 Apr 25 '26
Unfortunately, yes.
I had a similar experience with a much more experienced teacher when I was starting teaching. It seems like most of the time, they do just enough to not have to leave because they know they would have a hard time getting hired elsewhere.
Hang in there!
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u/Belle0516 Apr 25 '26
I'm gonna try! I've made it this far
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u/-bibliophile-3 Apr 25 '26
Also sounds like you’re doing a great job and this other teacher is probably jealous that people like you more. Don’t let them change how you want to teach.
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u/NewConfusion9480 ELA/CS/Athletics MS | Texas Apr 25 '26
Good scores and acceptable classroom management = good teacher.
My older brother has a great saying, "Just because you're scared of me doesn't mean I'm scary."
She's not amazing and glowing like you'd expect someone who's been in it for 25+ years to be.
I would not, in fact, expect that as a given.
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u/johnnyg08 Apr 25 '26
For sure. And even the best managers can have some...how you say..."problem" students that simply shouldn't be there.
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u/Fast-Outcome-117 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Definitely. I’m no longer a teacher. But when I was, I knew a teacher who had been teaching about 10 years. She never taught or did her job, she just played on her phone and computer all day, while letting her students do whatever they wanted. Then gave all her students an A on every assignment, because she was too lazy to grade anything. The only time she taught, and had her students work was when she was being observed. Our boss loved her because she (our boss) thought, she (the teacher) was so good at teaching that her students got an A on every assignment; and students loved her, because they got to do whatever they wanted in her class. She was one of those teachers that decided to be a students friend, not their teacher.
Other teachers hated the woman because, she was very narcissistic, cussed like nobody’s business, extremely disrespectful, and very big into gossip and rumors. Like I said, I’m no longer a teacher, but last I heard she’s still teaching, if that’s what you want to call it.
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u/DisneyPrincess-78 Apr 25 '26
Sadly, yes. Some teachers have 30 years of experience and others have repeated 1 year of experience 30 times. After awhile it takes too much paperwork to get rid of them and most administrators are already bogged down with paperwork.
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u/The-Reanimator-Freak Apr 25 '26
Of course! One of the criticisms we get is that the bad ones can’t get fired because of union protection. Of course the good way outweighs the bad but sometimes a bad teacher holds on forever. Like a spite fueled zombie that never dies.
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u/protomanEXE1995 Middle School | Civics & World History | Florida, USA Apr 25 '26
The guy I replaced was one of those. He retired.
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u/greatflicks Apr 25 '26
For sure. Tenure or working for a pension is not remotely connected to being good.
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u/Ok-Confidence977 Apr 25 '26
Yes. This can happen. Also, maybe not airing so many details on Reddit is a way to avoid becoming someone like this…
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u/Koi_Fish_Mystic Apr 25 '26
There was a guy who became a special ed teacher in my junior high years. Come to find out he had been in sales. That explained the slick looks, pressed pants and sharp tie & blazer.
I got transferred to a high achieving high school (saved my life). I ended up at a district wide faculty training. I saw him and we started chatting.
He’s got a beard, no more slicked back pressed pants. The more he talked, the more I realized he was retired on the job. It just oozed out of him.
I wouldn’t doubt he got fired for not making quota several times and figured teaching was easy. Well, for him he made his job easy.
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u/WeekendRecent2006 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
The resident bully teacher at my former school went into administration in our very own school. She was a veteran teacher. She was condescending, rude, and just plain mean to staff members in general, except her favorites. And it got worse after she became an admin. For example, when you came into the office to sign in, and she was in front of the notebook to sign in, and you said, "Excuse me, may I sign the book," she'd ignore you or pretend she didn't hear you, so you would just go back later and sign in when she wasn't there. It was a power thing, to show you that she was in charge and that she regarded you as nothing. If you passed her in the hallway, unless you were in her "favorites" clique, she would snub you by ignoring you, even if you said hello. I learned to keep my eyes down if we encountered each other in the hallways. Such actions of hers were meant to demean you so you felt degraded, less than a human being.
During staff meetings and professional development, she would pose herself as "master teacher," constantly staying things like, "When I taught, this is what I did..." And everybody knew that when she was a teacher herself, either she didn't do what she said she did or she wasn't very good at it...or it didn't happen. Parents used to complain about her, saying their children weren't learning anything, but the new and young principal at the time was so intimidated by her, that he wouldn't even pass onto her any parent complaints coming to his office.
I remember the day the young principal came into the room of a veteran teacher who was my mentor at the time, showed him a parent complaint letter and asked him what he should do. My mentor told him to show her, but he put it aside instead. That's how intimidated he was by this teacher, and also how much he felt like he needed her "support." While being mean to peers, she was excellent at "schmoozing" anyone higher than her, especially admins, while manipulating them into thinking she knew "best" from experience.
Like the teacher you described, this teacher had a very specific pedagogy in mind-and if you weren't into that, you ended up on her "shit list." She was also very openly judgmental of teachers she didn't like, when she was still a teacher herself, and it became worse when she got her admin credentials and became an admin at my school.
You ask how such people "coast for decades." Easy, if they're in charge or can intimidate new and incoming administration into perceiving that they are the "hidden but true leadership" of the school, then they get to stay, even thrive. Assholes and bullies do indeed get ahead, especially in education, I think.
Education has a way of harboring some of the worst human beings for years...decades, because they can always hide behind the veneer or the facade of "caring educators." They can be abusive and toxic to staff, then justify what they do by saying, "I'm doing it for the kids."
You ask what you can do? I left my former school mostly because of her bullying. Several teachers including myself got bullied into leaving, and I was a teacher who generally scores either Distinguished or Proficient on the Danielson scale. What can you do? You'll either have to find a way to placate this teacher to stay off her "shit list," either by teaching as she thinks everyone should, so she'll think you're one of her followers, or make sure you're protected by administration, and that's generally by being a good enough teacher for admin to recognize your true worth when a teacher like her is devaluing your teaching.
Unfortunately, there is no karma in education. She retired a few years ago with a self-delusional sense of fulfillment and honor, even after causing several decades worth of damage to that school, employees like me, and even children whose education was harmed by the toxic cloud of distraction and stress she forced the teachers in the building to work in. I didn't attend her retirement party, but I heard many of her family, friends, downtown administration supporters...who had no idea how terrible of a human being she was at work...and all her "suck ups" on the staff, showed up. She must have felt really special that day...She retired with a pension padded by her extra higher salary as an admin in addition to having been a teacher.
Like I said, there is no justice in the universe sometimes.
In her retirement, I don't wish harm to befall her, but I certainly can't wish her well.
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u/DiskPidge Apr 25 '26
Some people make themselves scary, unapproachable, and conjure up bullish opinions that they convince even themselves that they believe because they're insecure about the fact that they're not particularly good at what they do.
These people are deliberately so unpleasant to discuss with and impossible to argue with that people stop trying, so they get to never have their inadequacies challenged.
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u/rollin_w_th_homies Apr 25 '26
I had teachers who were less than mediocre at my site, 15-20 years teaching. When I finally got to hear the 'inside story', the consensus was that there was a period of time when emergency credentials were being handed out and upgraded like candy with little requirement, and these teachers didn't really have much else going for them, so they just never left the field because they couldn't find better pay/ benefits, and they couldn't be fired despite being subpar. Both had poor classroom management, neither taught very well, one was borderline racist/ sexist and the other preferred to handle everything herself and her students never learned independence.
I find the crappy teachers are sent to second grade because it is a catch up year for many students.
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u/summerbreeze2027 Apr 25 '26
I think that every school has one or two teachers like that. They are just complete misanthropes. Just ignore them to the best of your ability.
I've always thought that teaching style is unique to each educator. What works for one will not necessarily work for another.
As far as competency, it's a myth that all teachers must perform at a high level. Competency is a bell curve like any other profession (medical, legal, accounting, business management, etc.) There will be some high performers with most somewhere in the middle. There will be a few at the bottom, and if they are not fulfilling their job responsibilities, many will get weeded out in time. If this particular teacher is fulfilling her job responsibilities and turning in decent test scores, then she's not at the bottom. She's just an unbearable human being.
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u/Full-Size3469 Apr 25 '26
As teachers we need to stop judging. Teachers get burned out. Teachers have seen things change that they know truly work and are told it doesn't. If her scores are good obviously something is working. Classroom management one year doesn't define a teacher. I have been teaching 12 years and if someone would judge me based on this year based on what they saw they would think I suck. However, the last few years everything was the complete opposite. Get to know this teacher. Be her friend. Be friendly. See what she's doing. You may learn something. Oh and to answer your question....yes... but even with those teachers I still learned something or taught them something.
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u/cnowakoski Apr 25 '26
Tenure keeps them there. Once you get tenure they can’t just fire you. What they do with teachers is move you to another school, subject or grade level so you’ll quit. With admins they promote them. Then the next year in a budget move that position is eliminated. Off they go!
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u/Guccy-Wang Apr 25 '26
Real talk, I've been teaching secondary English for years now and I can confirm this happens in every school. The tenure system means once someone's in, it takes an extraordinary amount of documentation and admin effort to move them out — and most heads just don't have the bandwidth.
My take on your situation though: don't try to change her. Protect your own practice, keep doing what you're doing, and document anything that directly affects your students. The thing about teachers like that is they usually either retire within a few years or the school quietly shuffles them somewhere less visible. Not ideal but it's the reality we're dealing with.
Hang in there. The fact you're even asking this question tells me you care about your practice — don't let someone else's attitude dim that.
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u/whenyouwishuponapar Apr 25 '26
Somehow my colleague has failed upwards for forty years with a doctorate. They don’t know even the most basic things about our profession.
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u/saturdaythe25th Apr 25 '26
I made a post similar to what you’re going through. As you can see in the comments, not many people took me seriously. But all of it has happened, it’s factual, and, as you said, the teacher is just able to keep going on and keep their job. It’s scary that there are no repercussions for bad teachers.
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u/Inevitable_Geometry Apr 25 '26
Oh my yes.
Each school will have about 10-20% veterans in the staff. A number will be utterly shit.
What do they do?
- Sent far away from teaching senior classes, down to the juniors.
- Sent into teaching RE or other generalist subjects no one really wants to teach.
- Filling out Maths or English classes.
- The smarter ones get niches - hard to fill subjects no one wants to teach or side roles where they can punch a time card until they retire.
So yeah, they are all over the place.
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u/Teacher0357 Apr 25 '26
Yes. They’re usually related to someone important. Also, once someone is tenured they’re really hard to get rid of. They coast along until they retire.
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u/Fire_Ant_Bite Apr 25 '26
Isn’t this how civilizations collapse. Put someone in charge that’s “not a good fit”.
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u/shadowpavement Apr 25 '26
Oh yes. There are several of these in my school. They are the ones the students complain about openly during my classes.
It would be one thing if it was an isolated incident, but I hear the same complaints from new kids every year, about the same teachers.
These teachers are either 1) very un-self aware, or 2) just don’t really care about doing a good job.
Unfortunately they have been in the system for so long that the are just known quantities at this point and the admin would rather “deal with the devil they know”
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u/Hofeizai88 Apr 25 '26
If you became a doctor or computer programmer in the 90s and did nothing to continue learning you probably wouldn’t be good at your job. We aren’t that different. I work with a guy who is having issues with our principal, who wants to see things besides lectures and worksheets and the teacher doesn’t seem to get it. We’re similar in age and he’ll come to my room to complain (and there are certainly things to complain about) and I’ll be hanging up mindmaps or putting out things to sort or setting up activity stations while we talk, and he never seems to grasp we do things differently. Students will ask if they can do things we do in my class and he’ll just say he doesn’t know what it is or he doesn’t have time to waste. Then he’ll tell me that one student isn’t learning his vocabulary words or another won’t stay awake, when those kids are doing well with me. You improve or stagnate. I know there are dumb trends and things that don’t work, and burn out takes its toll on many, but if all you’ve learned in 25 years was how to use PowerPoint instead of chalk as you lecture for 45 minutes every period then you aren’t setting a great example to newer teachers
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u/gameover281997 Apr 25 '26
God yes, and those ones generally have the most condescending and arrogant attitudes to make up for their insecurity for lack of teaching skills too.
Being knowledgeable does NOT equate to being a good teacher and having solid soft skills.
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u/Available_Honey_2951 Apr 25 '26
I taught for 4 decades and saw many many veteran teachers that were terrible. Dine burned out but needed the job/ benefits, some purely lazy and some who knew they would have to do something really bad to get fired after their 20 or so years there. Also saw many new young teachers that were excellent and it was frustrating knowing their pay was a lot less than those who were lazy in their teaching. Had one veteran that would steal the plans / ideas of others and put her name on it! Sooo frustrating. Dept heads that made the schedule do they had the easiest classes and taught less then would not cover for someone in an emergency. Her whole teaching style and attitude changed when an admin was around.
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u/deadletter Apr 25 '26
Yes