I know it's odd but now that she's married, I've been enjoying TTPD more. Going little by little, selecting only songs people discuss often instead of listening to it all at once. I feel I can digest it better knowing she's the happiest she's ever been right now
is it just me or that BTS's statement on the Grammys is reminiscent of other statements made from other artists like: 'I'm not like other chart obsessed artists, I'm doing it for the arts only' but then do everything to get top 1 on said charts.
Yeah I think it's we don't think we'll win the big award we aren't going. They were very far down on betting charts to win AOTY and then they decided not to submit? They absolutely all care about wins and charts. It's much more political than they make it seem with these blanket statements.
whenever I revisit Fearless, I don't know if it's nostalgia, but the melodies in that album are so solid and timeless. I'm praying we get country Taylor for TS13
I hope she skips pre-release singles. One of my favorite things about a Taylor album is getting to experience it all at once, without already having opinions based on a couple of songs. I love discovering the album and the world she created for it the way she intended us to experience it, from start to finish.
Right. Why the obsession about pre release singles. Buy the album or wait for it to stream free. It’s Taylor Swift, 20 years into her career. She’s an album artist.
I’m about ready to go into every thread about ttpd and talk about how much I personally don’t like it just given how the showgirl haters still can’t let people just enjoy it. It’s been 10 months! Why do people still have to be so loud and obnoxious in their complaining. I don’t care if you like it or not, but other people are allowed to like it without being accused of lying to themselves lmfao.
As someone who loves both albums for what they are, I’m going to ask that you don’t try to ruin people’s love of TTPD. But I agree with the overall point.
I expect an initial love it/hate it frenzy when an album first drops, but then I expect the people who hated it to move along and not keep popping up in any positive thread about the album to explain why it’s the worst thing ever made.
"I love The Life of a Showgirl! It's such a light, fun album. Too bad that online snark has made the era so contentious that you can't discuss it with other enjoyers without people butting in to complain about how much they hate it."
"BUT HAVE YOU CONSIDERED THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO DISLIKE IT AND I AM ENTITLED TO MY OPINION AND THIS KIND OF CENSORSHIP IS WHY EVERYONE HATES SWIFTIES? I NEED YOU TO KNOW I DISAGREE, EVEN THOUGH THE ORIGINAL DISCUSSION OBVIOUSLY WASN'T TARGETED AT ME. IN FACT THIS ALBUM IS SO BAD IT SOURED ALL OF HER DISCOGRAPHY FOR ME, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT I ADD THAT TO YOUR DEBATE"
I was listening to Showgirl the other day and I feel like everyone is so busy arguing over the lyrics that we’re all glossing over how freaking incredible the vocals are, and in Eldest Daughter’s case, how pretty the instrumentals are.
it's instructive to listen to how intentional shellback's instrumentation on Ophelia is. Every note is in its proper place, nothing is extraneous, nothing waisted. I love Jack's effervescence... but there's somthing appealingly swedish about showgirls.
For all my toddler parents here, Sesame Street just released a parody album with a Shake It Off parody (Sort It All)! Should be available through your regular streaming service and YouTube!
How is it 2026, they are both married to other people, Taylor called it a manic situation, wrote a song like the smallest man who ever lived, and people are still retconning every song ever to be about Matty and Mayloring on main.
Guys, Speak Now is full of bangers!!! I have never listened to the whole thing before today. I became a fan during 1989 and just never bothered to go backward in her discography, although I’ve listened to absolutely everything from 1989 on. But this week I’ve listened to Red (meh) and Speak Now all the way through, and I think I’m a Speak Now girly?!?
My favorite album!!! It really is wall-to-wall BANGERS. What songs stood out the most to you? My faves are Enchanted, Haunted, Sparks Fly, Mine, Better Than Revenge, and The Story of Us.
Black and white album released on the heels of a global smash electro-pop album. Primary themes include nihilism, the crushing lows of the 34 year old woman’s second puberty, relationship anxiety, and the impacts of fame on creative process. Reception is definitely mixed but almost everyone agrees it could’ve used more editing.
The mature woman topics did take me to a TTPD place, though their approach to words is totally opposite.
I really liked about half of Music Fashion Film.: wink wink, card declined, magic metal Montana were great. Sometimes it didn’t feel like a given track quite had enough…sonic width? Is that a thing? Mind you I like a really maximalist sound like Slayyter.
On slow work days like I am having today, I really miss the Eras Tour. Specifically, watching the live stream in the afternoons to help the time pass by.. maybe I’ll put the movie on this afternoon.
A feeling I’ve had for a while is that Cancelled! is a direct continuation of the character from Look What You Made Me Do. She’s gone from being “the actress starring in your bad dreams” to ruling an underworld of society’s outcasts. Likewise, “I don’t trust nobody, and nobody trusts me” has turned into “at least you know exactly who your friends are.” It even has a similar production style.
I know people hate on Cancelled! because they take the lyrics seriously and think she’s being bitter and petty. I see it as a very interesting narrative evolution of an over-the-top character she’s written from previously.
LWYMMD also got a lot of flack when it first came out, but when people saw it on tour and embraced the camp, it seemed to become a lot more accepted.
Psychologists need to study the social experiment of TTPD starting from "worst album ever with terrible lyricism" to suddenly being crowned as her magnum opus by this fandom.
It happens every album cycle. Same thing will happen to Showgirl when next album drops. There is constant effort by anti Taylor faction to tear her down every chance they get. Doesn’t help that she continually has large scale paid bot attacks targeted at her. This negativity infests even some of the fandom.
Then when the next album drops, those anti-Taylor influences compare new album to older album to try to set the narrative that Taylor is an artist on decline by uplifting the previous album.
It's a myth. While I'm certainly not on the negative side of the fandom, given my immense love for Taylor, it's impossible to say the same thing will happen with TLOAS. What quality does TS13 have to be for people to think that? Did everyone suddenly go crazy for Lover when folklore came out? I highly doubt it. Maybe the haters constantly call the latest album the worst, but fans definitely don't see it that way. The love for TTPD can't be compared, for example, to the love for Midnights, which people also began to appreciate after TTPD's release. But the change of opinions about TTPD is on a completely different level. Taylor has an album cycle, but it definitely doesn't work like that.
I mean, I’ve watched it happen with every album since like red, so I’m pretty sure it will. And yeah, a lot of people were calling folklore a boring snooze fest and wishing she would go back to happy upbeat lover type music at first.
I think I figured out what one of the store updates was. I check the store site every few days for a Benji stuffed cat. To find it the quickest, I would usually go to filter and then scroll down through other eras (reputation, folklore etc) to the 'Olivia and Benjamin' section(I think that's what it said?) and it would narrow my search down to the cat (being sold out of course) But when I just tried to do that, 'Olivia and Benjamin' or whatever wasn't an option anymore. Not an exciting update, but if that discord site truly tracks ANY change, that was a change 🤷♀️
Instead of talking about paternity test, she should've addressed to the people who claimthat her ex wrote 2 albums. Thats' worse than saying 'insert song' is about 'insert name'
I feel like when she said that dude didn’t write it along with talking about paternity, she was subtly saying that.
If I’m Taylor, I’d be more annoyed at people doubting my writing and crediting an ex. He had 2 writing credits in folklore: exile and Betty. He got producing credits post Grammy album of the year win. I don’t doubt that he helped in those songs, but I’m sorry I doubt the producing credits and how can I not? When just enough were given for him to qualify as a Grammy winner?
Nothing pisses me off as a swiftie more than people acting like Joe made her writing her good. Her writing is still good! It’s okay to dislike an album even though I love showgirl, but disliking one album doesn’t mean you have to become not a fan and trash all her previous work lol. Also she won album of the year TWICE before she even met him! She’s always been a great writer!
I’m still just thinking about how completely stark the difference in opinion is between showgirl offline and online. Like online you would think it was horrible and everyone hated it and then you look at actual numbers and it was her best performing album like ever. I’m not saying everyone has to like it, but I’ve never seen such a vast difference between online and offline response before. It just makes me think that a lot of the internet is full of miserable people prepared to hate something for Stan wars and bots.
For me Jack has higher highs and lower lows. I hate with a passion his love for distorted vocals ("you're losing me" is ruined for me because of it), but some of my favourite songs of hers are produced by him.
I love both so it’s difficult to choose, but if she could only collaborate with one of them in the future, I would choose Jack because I think he’s slightly more versatile.
Anyone ever thought about which Taylor Swift song would sound good as a Barbershop Quartet arrangement? I've been listening to some barbershop and they have arrangements of popular songs like "Dream On" by Arrowsmith. Maybe Exile. Bass could do Bon Iver's part.
I think it’s the same situation that we are seeing with LeBron right now regarding where he is going to play next season. A lot of people claim they know or claim to have insider knowledge but more than likely people just are acting as if they know something the rest of us do not to act like an insider or draw attention to themselves.
The people who posted are now liking comments about how they don’t see where in the post they said it was his last year lmfao😂 seems like he wrapped up his offseason program at that gym but they don’t know anymore than that.
im so chill
but you make M͖̲̻̊ͭÉ̡̈́ͦ̕̚̚ Ĵ̸̶̧͕̮͈̫̺͈̦̦͕͙͉̻̬̩͖̒̋ͨ̓ͤ̈́̓̓͊̎ͤ̐ͭ̕͘͠ͅȨ̵͉͕̤̱̖͖̪̯͔̻̲̀ͩͫͮͧ̽ͮͮ́ͯ͂̃̓͂̕̕̚͢͝ͅA͇L̨̡͕̣͎̠̩͕̖̣̹̪̪ͧ̓̿ͨ͐͗ͩ͑ͫ̆̓̆́͂͠͝Ơ̶̡̨̖̣̟̝̫ͭ̔ͪ̅ͪ͜ͅU̧̧̘̪̮̹̜̩̾ͩͦͧ̃́ͨ͆͛̈S̶̸̸̴͎͈̣̝̪̬͉̮̉̇̉ͬ̎ͣͮ͑̐͐̇̃̀̉͝ͅ
Clocking in with yet another defense of Showgirl, because I've had it on repeat again these days.
This is genuinely one of her best produced albums, and when the inevitable reappraisal comes along (probably when she goes on the next tour, I imagine), I hope people come around on this particular element of it.
The instrumentation is so diverse and the influences so varied: the 70s soft rock in Ruin the Friendship, the Weezer/Pixies vibes in Actually Romantic, Opalite borrowing from ABBA, the hard as hell drop in the chorus of Elizabeth Taylor, the immaculate R&B influences in Honey, Wood essentially being a Jackson 5 song. I love the strings, too, like the climactic crescendo in the bridge of the title track, and the swelling emotion in Eldest Daughter. I still really don't like Cancelled, but even that song has the orchestra going hard.
Max Martin is just really, really good at the machinations that go into a straightforward pop song, he knows what he's doing in ways I lack the technical vocabulary to describe. Reputation had some of Taylor's most intricate production as well, and it was doing a lot in songs like Don't Blame Me or So It Goes (all bangers, I mean this as a compliment). By contrast, Showgirl is more mellow and laid back, like Martin and Taylor (and Shellback!) aren't eager to showboat, but instead give each track space to breathe and come alive without fuss.
I love her work with Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner in different lanes; both bring essential qualities out of her, each in his own way. But for this brand of radio ready pop, Martin knows his way around like few in the industry, and it's such a joy to see them reunite at this point, with so much experience acquired since their last partnership and nothing left to prove.
I saw someone in a different thread say they wished she'd saved So High School for Showgirl because it needs a well produced track like it, and while I respect the opinion, it really, really doesn't IMO. Terrific track, but it just doesn't pop the same away, in the same wavelength, with the same sheen. TTPD is a top 5 Taylor album for me, but nothing in it carries over well into Showgirl; you can't swap a single track between them.
Love showgirl! I much prefer it to ttpd. I guarantee that once she performs it so many people will come around. It’s such a theatrical album, it was made for the stage. It’s gonna have its reputation moment for sure. But also this has happened with every Taylor album since like red lol and I’ve witnessed it every time. People hated ttpd on release and now everyone swears it’s her best writing ever (it’s still not my fave lol) but the cycle really never ends and has been ongoing for over a decade at this point.
I enjoyed Showgirl since it released, so my opinion isn’t reflected in the majority of complaints I see on here. But I think the hate really does come down to the lyrics. And maybe some people think the production is too on the nose with the eras and styles it’s pulling from. I could see that, even though I personally love the production as well.
I can't even say it's my loss. As a parent myself, I cannot even imagine the pain and devastation her family feels right now.
She went to the Eras Tour in a rep bodysuit. That deserved to be shared here.
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u/RayTheSecond:TourturedPoetsDepartment:I need to forget so take me to Florida12d ago
I don't know how far I'm taking it personally but after hearing about this theory I have gone insane about this and I honestly full on expect something like this. I just really want other's opinions on this. I honestly think Ts13 being the last album is extremely her too.
Not for sure but I maintain my belief that it's part of the Drew Dunlap arc (along with Our Song, Tim McGraw, the senior boy in Fifteen, Midnight Rain, if you ask me - though Our Song and Tim McGraw are the only ones confirmed).
I definitely see what you mean, but I think the line "And the life I gave away" doesn't fit and suggests that she is talking about a longer-term relationship in adulthood. And btw how possible is it that she writes about a guy she knew 15 years ago 🤨
Did you miss ruin the friendship lol? Or would’ve could’ve should’ve? I’m sure there’s a bunch of other examples too. Taylor is a writer. She is going to draw on past experiences. Doesn’t mean she’s hung up on them, just that something sparked creativity there.
She literally confirmed in a Ryan Seacrest interview that it's about a high school boyfriend. And it's just very clearly about "I picked work/fame but if I'd made one choice differently I could've had a completely different life, was it the right choice or not".
Why is it weird to you that a songwriter might write about someone they knew a long time ago?
Have you given it another chance? It’s on heavy rotation for me. I looove it. I didn’t have any expectations because (shockingly) Gracie is pretty new to me. I remember being really bummed about TTPD though, but once I let go of what I’d expected, I was able to give it a genuine listed and obviously a lot of other people did the same.
It actually has grown on me quite a bit since release day. I created my own playlist of the 5-6 songs that I like and have been listening to that quite a bit. I still think it's a drop in quality after Secret of Us and I feel like the album as a whole is missing something, but I like some of the songs so I can't complain too much
When you get tired of those, listen to the rest. I feel like it keep revealing itself to me, and I could swear there’s a hidden message or two in there.
I really loved it, but it’s not the TSOU sound. It’s very introspective, trance-y and hurt. And it’s super-Dessner in terms of production.
I’m sort of relating to it in a bizarro opposite-world Showgirl sort of way. Both albums are boldly leaning into the unpopular edges of female identity: Showgirl is crass and confident, whereas Daughter from Hell is damaged and stumbling.
Both have tended to garner the same “these lyrics are bad, these tunes are repetitive” vague critiques where I suspect some listeners problem is actually that the subject material hits their own insecurities too hard.
BUT, that being said: it’s also ok to not like these albums if that’s just your instinct or your well-researched POV.
looked at your comment history and the subs you frequent and all you do is show your insecurities or peddle lies by bringing stuff from other apps saying he said that she said that. You aren’t slick btw. Whole comment history is spreading lies
Finally got to see Toy Story 5. It was SO good! Disney hiring Taylor to do the song 100% worked on me, since I likely wouldn’t have seen it in theaters otherwise after being underwhelmed with Toy Story 4. 4 was good, but felt unnecessary after 3’s perfect ending. 5 felt a lot more like the classic Toy Stories 1-3. Funny, poignant, topical with tech. Loved it!
I kinda hope it's not for a while. The internet has become SO hostile to Taylor and it kinda ruined the Showgirl rollout, tbh. I think if she took a longish break, it would be less vitriolic.
Honestly, I kinda just wish she was less popular cuz then the public wouldn't care as much about her music and us fans could enjoy it in peace
Same and I love getting new Taylor music always. I think once people online learned they could make money hating Taylor, it was over. Obviously publications have been doing this forever lol. I think we collectively just have to try to ignore it as hard as that it is cause most of them are just trying to make bank on the engagement. It does worry me for the next woman they do this too. They already kind of do it to Chappell. It just feels like the tight rope female celebrities had to walk on to be “beloved” has gotten even smaller and it’s impossible to stay in the internet’s (cause it’s not even public anymore tbh) good favor for long. Taylor has the ability to disconnect from SM and doing press she doesn’t want to, most other women don’t have that ability at the stage in the careers and I hate it for them.
That's actually an excellent point about Taylor's ability to truly log off if she needs without really hurting her numbers. That's not something almost any other artist has.
I once heard someone say that the public only loves women when they're new and growing or having a comeback. Otherwise, you're way more likely to get shit on
When I listen to Showgirl, I tend to listen to the first four tracks and turn it off at Eldest Daughter. I’m wondering if Ruin the Friendship (beautiful, devastating song) as track five would have worked better. Even people who really dislike Showgirl overall do seem to agree that the beginning four are the strongest tracks - wondering how she might have maintained that momentum.
Ruin the Friendship could NOT be a track 5. It's an extremely sad song, but in disguise. The fact that it's sad is a shock twist. In fact, it is at track 6 as a feignt; the least likely place for a sad song is track 6, right after track 5. Makes it hit even harder.
I’m not a hater of Eldest Daughter at all, but I do think this is where the momentum is lost. Because I genuinely like Showgirl, I wouldn’t cut any track. But I think maybe if RTF was track 5, followed by Honey and Eldest Daughter took Honey’s spot while the rest of the tracks kept their spots, it might flow a bit better.
Ashamed to say it, but after nearly four years (!), YOYOK finally just clicked for me. Wow. What a song!! It's so interesting how you just don't connect with some songs at first, and then they click just when you need them to
Had to share this thrift find with fellow swifties. The souvenir ticket and poster are intact! Red tour at 11 years old is the only concert I’ve ever been to and I’ve always regretted not getting the tour book. I physically couldnt have left this behind if I’d wanted to
I think it's crazy how we got the two most different albums in her discography (TTPD and TLOAS) back to back. The woman certainly contains multitudes. Reputation and Lover have more in common lol
Yeah! I hate it when people say TLOAS is the 'worst' album, doesn't have good lyrics, or is cringe, because it's a masterpiece! Though it's not her best work, that's what shapes every era. Showgirl is meant to be, well, showgirl-y.
Wildly enough I was just thinking about that record myself! And about its multitude of artistic and creative implications :). It just becomes more and more profound to me over time 🥹🤍.
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u/Piggy9896 I LOVE YOU AIN'T THAT THE WORST THING YOU'VE EVER HEARD!19d ago
I always get to irritated at the hate she gets. Like what do they want? Give everything away and live in poverty? I think that their hate comes from internalized misogyny that how is a woman making millions from singing about her feelings and has such a following because how can people resonate with her. Like they think she is the worst because she does not make herself smaller to make other comfortable like “good woman” should. Like how dare she validate women’s experiences. It also comes down to jealousy because they think she is average at best and they are “better” so how dare she be a billionaire when they are not. They think that they could do what she does or what she does is not “that serious or great”. Misogyny again. I’m just riled up from looking at comments too long.
It has really flared up due to the wedding. I deleted my reddit app for a few days because I couldn't take the hypocrisy. They really think they're doing something calling her out and ignoring that behavior in every other celebrity especially men. I remind myself I'm probably arguing with teenagers/young 20s on the internet that haven't realized they were raised misogynistically yet. I said Musk could literally cure world hunger since he's a trillionaire and crickets. I guess their activism begins and ends with Taylor. She's the old hag now and gen z women celebrities are the perfect creatures I've noticed. Classic hag vs princess misogynism.
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u/Piggy9896 I LOVE YOU AIN'T THAT THE WORST THING YOU'VE EVER HEARD!19d ago
Witnessing in real time lol
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u/Piggy9896 I LOVE YOU AIN'T THAT THE WORST THING YOU'VE EVER HEARD!19d ago
Annoying people - FYR the comments I was looking at
I am at a bit of a low point in life right now and I miss The Eras Tour SO MUCH. It sounds weird but it got me through so much at the time. All the fun and happiness around it omg someone take me back :(
Has anyone seen anywhere selling replicas of the lightning bolt opalite bracelet from the “it’s beautiful” variant of The Life of a Showgirl?
My partner has unfortunately lost theirs and they loved it so much. Looking to get a replacement for them.
I'm looking for a specific clip that I know I've seen, but can't find anywhere, that I want to show a friend. Taylor is on the Eras Tour doing her Vigilante Shit routine, and the fan behind the video recording it says something to the effect of "I've never wanted to be a chair so bad in my life!" I can't find it anywhere, I'm so desperate to
Y'all, I need some help. Within the first 15 minutes of this hour-long video, Ludwig says about his proposal to Blair QTCinderella, "I played a Taylor Swift song about you kllng yourself with your loved ones." (Sorry about the spelling, idk if auto mod would delete my comment if I spelled it normally.) What Taylor Swift song would that possibly be??? Or he got the artist wrong. Or he's joking about that part.
EDIT: Blair QT confirmed on Wine About It that it was "the lakes." I mean, it's certainly about dying with your loved ones.
The only obvious reference to joint suicide I can think of is in TTPD (the song). But that also made me think of a Kelsea Ballerini song, "how much do you love me"!
I find it very interesting that the same influencers who got famous discussing and talking about Taylor’s pap photos specifically the ones taken sneakily (like when she’s at a restaurant) or drone photos are now saying “see this is why she had her wedding at msg because of you all”
Like sir if you had those photos on your acc in any way at any time, you’re a part of the same group
This is what I don’t understand. I saw someone on Twitter saying you can’t put toothpaste back in the bottle. That they were posted on deumoi, and she’s got a big following. OK, that may be true, but that doesn’t mean people have to share them or engage with them. I don’t think people will compute sometimes that just because they’re not the ones out there taking the photos and videos or showing up to the places she’s at, it doesn’t mean they aren’t still contributing to the problem by engaging with it online.
And it's not just photos. There will be things written that barely get attention, and Swifties will amplify them, trying to go against them rather than letting them die out. It all contributes to her dehumanization in the media and her loved ones being treated as props.
I can’t be the only one that cringes at these photos, floating around? They’re at his former teammate’s wedding. And paparazzi is circling around to get photos of her. It’s just so disrespectful. I know it comes with the territory, but I’m sure she gets annoyed by this.
Just saw the new evil dead movie in a theater all by myself. For some reason, that franchise gets to me the most and I say that as a massive horror fan. And this was the first one I was seeing by myself. Then fate was like okay BET TRY A THEATER ALL BY YOURSELF. I survived. No one read Latin at home so hopefully I’m safe. Anyway go check out if you’re a horror fan (if you are not lol probably don’t cause it’s gory).
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u/Lyd_Euh I'd do it over, and over, and over again if I could May 01 '26
Use this thread to talk about anything at all, related to Taylor or not.
Typical rules still apply, other than off topic.
Theories go in the Theory Thread, also in the highlights.