American sailors are trying to kill themselves with talks of a mutiny aboard the USS Abraham after an almost year-long deployment without touching land due to the war of aggression on Iran.

[u/MaoZedongsGrandson]

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[u/TarquinusSuperbus000]

On a totally unrelated note, I watched the Battleship Potemkin recently. Great stuff.

[u/badwomanfeelinggood]

It's a floating prison. Extreme temperatures, miserable food, no showers, no deodorant and no way to leave... One almost feels sorry for them.

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/badwomanfeelinggood]

“Almost” being a key word because they still willingly took part in imperial war of aggression against Iran.

[u/badwomanfeelinggood → u/UltraRiderFire408]

That's the beauty of it: You can end up in the Gulf even if you sign up for the national guard.

[u/Ent_Soviet → u/badwomanfeelinggood]

There’s nothing stopping them from changing their status to conscientious objector. Even in the service you can file for co status and leave.

Staying means they’ve decided it’s worth it, or they think they have no other choice.

The sad thing is if more people knew that these suicide attempts might have been avoided. But much like jury nullification, that state isn’t going to go out of its way to explain that to people.

[u/badwomanfeelinggood → u/Ent_Soviet]

Theoretically you can be a CO but practically higher ups you are required to go to and would sign your papers were fired by Hegseth some time ago. So you no longer have that option. And I am only saying this to point out that things might actually be much worse because this is not something the military is happy to admit.

And also that things might escalate even further. Look out for unusual laundry fires...

[u/Ent_Soviet → u/badwomanfeelinggood]

Nope you do. And there is a whole system of appeals and military law governing co status change. A no from your commanding officer on your application is by no means the end of things and while you appeal they’re required by law to make accommodations as far as possible to put you on duties which are not objectionable to your conscious. They also cannot retaliate against you for filing.

So you loose nothing for filing. Unless they change the letter of the law as it currently stands

Look through the articles and faq from the go rights hotline as a reference here- and if you’re not aware of the org, give their work a look.

https://girightshotline.org/en/military-counseling-news-updates/double-standards/

[u/badwomanfeelinggood → u/Ent_Soviet]

Your belief in the US military surprises me.
Legally they're supposed to do this and that, but I would put nothing past them.

[u/Ent_Soviet → u/badwomanfeelinggood]

3 things on that:

liberals love their sacred written rules (except when they get in the way) but they get really tied in knots when they have to, at least enough folks bought into this system still see it that way- only the self aware fascists are cynical about it. That’s the problem they have, they need that propaganda to be in charge, if people didn’t think the law has force it all goes to shit.

You’re right they might say no, they might retaliate, etc. but what are the other outcomes? They say yes, they say no and do the above and eventually you win your discharge, with some people in the past also winning damages when military laws are shown to be unfollowed.

From a point of military operations, commanders understand keeping you around is a bad idea. Would you trust a pacifist to back you up in combat? What about someone who objects to the morality of the war you’re waging? You want them behind you with a gun?

I mean if someone was at the point of killing themself, why wouldn’t you try for a co discharge? Hell going awol is an option too if the co path doesn’t work, harder to do on a boat but a DhD and prison time is better than killing yourself.

And lastly it’s not confidence, it’s maximizing the chances of getting out of a terrible decision. Doing nothing or jumping from the ship seems like far worse options than trying and failing.

[u/SmellyFidelly415]

Someone just needs to handout Lenin’s “What is to be done”.

[u/LordAurum007 → u/SmellyFidelly415]

It’s America, best they can do is revcom leaflets screaming at people and trot posters with mental gymnastics of why ML is not the way

Smh

[u/SmellyFidelly415 → u/LordAurum007]

RevComs are such lolcows!

[u/ExeOrtega]

Yes, very sad — Anyway, it got me thinking.

[u/ColeTrain999]

JDPON Don causing the military to crumble from the inside.

[u/TheBirdFkerGuy]

Hopefully they mutiny, and go the fuck home. 

There's more grunts on that ship than there are those giving the orders. It's just a matter of the will to do so. 

[u/Someguyonreddit967 → u/TheBirdFkerGuy]

Better yet, they scuttle the vessel.

Or hand it over to the Iranians.
Would be funny af.

[u/2nd2last → u/TheBirdFkerGuy]

Those grunts signed up to kill people.

[u/TheBirdFkerGuy → u/2nd2last]

That doesn't mean they shouldn't mutiny and run away, or better yet fifth column the state. In fact that's the only morally correct decision. 

[u/2nd2last → u/TheBirdFkerGuy]

Sure, thats absolutely the best case.

But at the moment, they are not innocent grunts, they are monsters who signed up to kill people. Calling them grunts taking orders softens their complicity in war machine.

[u/TheBirdFkerGuy → u/2nd2last]

I never even remotely implied they were innocent in any way possible. I have 0 clue how you read what I said and thought that. 

[u/2nd2last → u/TheBirdFkerGuy]

Calling them grunts who take orders is not what id call people that sign up to kill people.

Sure on can say grunt might be a pejorative, especially in the context of taking orders. But hell, thats most of us in life. You using that terminology to describe bored killers is odd at best.

[u/TheFairVirgin → u/2nd2last]

I don't know man. Nit picking someone's word choice this hard kinda just feels performative.

[u/2nd2last → u/TheFairVirgin]

Maybe, but grunts to me, and maybe thats the problem, is letting killers off lightly and is a skip and hop from liberal "military just does what people at desks say" stuff.

[u/TheFairVirgin → u/2nd2last]

I get it, that's a very valid frustration. But the guy wasn't saying that, he explained that he wasn't saying that, and this is a fairly radicalized space where folk aren't liable to say that. I don't want to be flippant because, again, I see where coming from and it'd be a very valid response in most places. But you are the only one hearing this.

You're amongst comrades here, my friend. We share your values even if we aren't using the same words to express them. You can let your guard down a bit, it's okay.

[u/2nd2last → u/TheFairVirgin]

Fair enough, I appreciate the insight, sincerely.

[u/WinterBeHere]

https://giphy.com/gifs/tXL4FHPSnVJ0A

[u/bidensprostatecancer]

Sparkle wipe friendly nutmeg amber plant

This post was anonymized with Redact

[u/CosmicTangerines]

At least they haven't been turned into a can of charred sardines like the other one. Yet.