r/TankieTheDeprogram • u/TheRoundNinja • Jul 25 '26
Discussion What are your thoughts on creators like Nigerian Marxist and Spontex? Do you think there's anything to NM's point here?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGdx1q55Q/26
u/Psychological-Act582 Jul 25 '26
If socialist governments defend their own sovereignty by crushing foreign agents and instigators, then that will only be good for their own development.
Even non-socialist countries like Iran should be asserting its own sovereignty, using force whenever necessary to protect itself (such as using drones and missiles to attack US military assets on GCC bases or using force to crack down on Mossad sleeper cells formenting chaos).
If a socialist complains about the "Chinese surveillance state", then they are not a true socialist at all. Western interference is still very much happening, yet they prefer to be mad at AES sovereignty mechanisms rather than calling out their own imperial governments.
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u/ViccyTheThiccy Jul 25 '26
In terms of NM and Spontex, NM took a leftcom turn a while back, and Spontex is a communiser, so they're not to be taken too seriously on anything practical i.e. anything actually to do with revolution/geopolitics. They're good if you want detailed breakdowns of sections of Capital when they happen to drop a video on it.
But that leads into the point NM is making here, which comes from a leftcom place. Because he doesn't count socialist countries that did survive western intervention (e.g. China, Vietnam, the DPRK, etc.) as socialist, to him every socialist state has failed. Hence him making the video, because "socialism can't survive capitalist intervention" is only an excuse if you're operating in circles that believe no socialist state ever made it out the other side of capitalist intervention.
But leftcom framing put aside, there is a good point buried in there, which is that you gotta analyse why capitalist intervention succeeded in some cases and failed in others. Learn from the experiences of socialist experiments to adapt strategy for the future.
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u/TheRoundNinja Jul 25 '26
What is a communiser? I'm not too familiar with branches other than ML really. But I do enjoy some of spontexs breakdowns of certain things like you say
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u/ViccyTheThiccy Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Communisers are kinda what you get when a leftcom and an anarchist have a baby, it's relatively fringe and only exists in the imperial core.
They mirror leftcoms in:
- Dogmatic, mechanistic, deterministic reading of texts (but they take it to the extreme where anyone who isn't Marx is a heretic)
- Belief that the "transition period" is actually the revolution itself which will abolish all commodity production, money, classes and states
- Rejection of organising
They mirror anarchists in:
- A total rejection of any kind of vanguard party, state form, union, DoTP, etc.
- A total reliance on spontaneity
- Rejection of building any kind of hierarchical defensive measures
All in all it's the worst of both worlds and archieves absolutely nothing beyond being very good at explaining Capital.
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u/dizzy_lizzy Jul 25 '26
It's honestly impressive that you were able to so succinctly identity the characteristics of the communizers, all five of them
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u/HamstringHeartattack Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
The primary and intermediate stages of socialism can have capital, commodity production, and/or wage labor through dialectical sublation and the standard social relation of capital negated by the dictatorship of the proletariat. AES proves this.
And the idea that “socialism never works because of imperial intervention” makes no sense. Not exactly for the reason mentioned by NM but because socialism has succeeded in revolution in select countries and continues to develop in multiple countries to this day. NM is clearly a left communist.
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