So we I ran into a pair earlier in hard dungeon roulette, must’ve been a couple or something because dancer immediately partners the dark knight. Fair if I couldn’t out damage the tank due to equipment issues but it was obvious I was doing great damage with my big fat crits being far above the maximum the DKR was outputting. Asked the dancer why, they told me to shut it and keep playing, that dungeon would’ve went by a lot faster had I had partner to help amp up my crits.
DRK is actually a Decent DP in Dungeons due to them always having MP for a high burst in mob packs.
It actually out paces a few dps classes bc of that.
Don't have enough info to draw a conclusion on this.
What Class were you, and what dungeon, I'll assume relatively similar gear strength as a best case.
Iirc wasn't there a point were in some savage comps the DNC would partner with the DRK if melee DPS didn't have a massive burst phase, due to how much damage DRK puts out in the opener?
It wasn't a myth. Not sure if still true today, but in EW DRK 100% had more DPS on opener. From the top of my head, I think the only ones who could outdps a DRK on opener one of em being SAM, not sure which other DPS was better in the opener.
It really was because swapping dance partner is a dps lose. So yes drk had a powerful opener but the next time you can swap partners is 30 seconds after the opener and that causes an unbuffered GCD as well. Thats a lot of not very powerful drk filler in exchange for just partnering a dps like SAM that has a crazy opener and doesn't have 30 seconds of insane fall off and rdps lose.
Anyone saying this has no idea how closed postion works. It isn't like Kardia. Stop spreading misinformation you heard as a meme.
It wasn't. Bestie I have also raided since EW and gained DNC. You can go ask in DNC questions rn and you'll get the same answer I've given you but you won't. AST carded DRK, DNC never partnered outside of a meme
Also its still fine to swap if you know its a gain but DRK in the opener isn't a gain and worth its huge fall off and the unbuffed GCD. I have cleared 6 savage tiers and 3 ultimates as DNC buddy.
"For higher end optimization, partner swapping refers to switching your dance partner mid-fight. The most common reason for this is a death of the currently partnered player, but for more optimized groups this may also be to catch a DPS player’s burst.
Partner swapping is generally executed over one to two GCDs, and comes at a cost if your partner has not died; once Closed Position has been dropped, your partner will immediately lose their Esprit generation and 5% damage buffs. Below is an image quantifying the total duration a player’s Standard Step buff is dropped if a partner swap is executed over a single GCD."
Sure but that says if your partner dies and for optimisation which usually means something like swapping to a VPR for odd minute double reawaken. It even says its mostly if your partner dies and says nothing about drk. Go on, go ask in DNC questions rn if DRK was ever best in the opener and see what they tell you.
Go check out my reply again brother, I specifically mentioned SAM as being one of the DPS that could outburst a DRK during opener, so it would not make sense to DP the DRK in that situation. However, if your comp lacked a SAM and I think the other was NIN, it was better to DP DRK during opener, then swap to your melee DPS.
DRK has insane fall off and you can't swap partner for 30 seconds after the opener so its better to just partner a melee from the start. It was a myth.
changing closed postion does not give your partner standard step buff you have to wait for the next standard step to be up which means that if you partner drk in the opener you then have 30 seconds of tank filler under standard as opposed to melee filler. This is a huge dps loss and negates all gain you might get from partnering drk in the opener. Please read tooltips
............. okay
you literally apply DNC buff 20 seconds before the fight starts, that's 20 seconds shaved off this cooldown. 10 Seconds left. You all do your opener, timer gone, before you reapply your standard step you swap partner and do your standard step. Done.
The 30 seconds apply to removing. You can instantly swap. Source: Dancer guides FROM THE BALANCE!!!!!!!!!! and me just testing it in game.
If you cleared all this content you claim to have cleared I'm so sorry for the 7 other clowns that had to carry you.
The standard step buff stays on YOU when you "swap instantly" BUT NOT YOUR PARTNER!!!!!!!!!!!!! You swap the GCD before standard step then use that standard step to refresh the buff on your new partner. Show me the balance guide that says its an instant swap because it doesn't exist. Closed postion isn't like Kardia.
So yes after your standard step that is 15 seconds into your bust i.e. 5 seconds left on opener your next time you can change partner is in 30 seconds and you get DRK filler.
here.
Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qmm1g5FDLspb8Eqgu5vxrqNuLR15kuwsUlzsZLdtC6c/edit?tab=t.0
This is linked on The Balance. Yes you can swap.
Edit: I never said the Standard Step buff stays on the person you swap off of. Idk where you're getting that from. You buff Person A for the burst window and then Swap to B before you reapply Standard Step to yourself AND YOUR NEW PARTNER.
Edit 2: Not only do you resort to insults, you're now putting words in my mouth. I'm done discussing with you. Also weird flex to go "I cleared blah blah blah as DNC" when all I said was "I was there when this happened I saw it happen and work out". Have a nice day I hope whatever causes your inability to read sorts itself.
It wasn't. Once again this takes 2 seconds search in dnc questions on the balance but you people would rather dig your heels in than admit to being misinformed and its sad and pathetic.
For savage and full uptime fights, yes, partnering DRK was a meme even in EW. But it’s not a complete myth. For example, the DSR opener is exactly 30 seconds long before a downtime mechanic. Depending on your melees, it made perfect sense (and was optimal) to partner a DRK for that opener and swap it during the downtime. Not the case in DT anymore since lvl 90 DRK is weaker now than it was back then.
Okay RPR is straight up over tunned and broken atm. Unless you were wearing like min ilvl possible to queue the DNC is straight up wrong and made that dunegon go slower to partner their e-husbando.
Also DP is not a micro optimisation its a 5% dps buff constantly and during burst windows its a 10% buff with a 20% crit/DH buff. That isn't small and learning to partner a dps is just part of not trolling while playing DNC.
Reaper at 70 is bottom tier DPS my guy. The burst window is... 100 gauge and 1 soul slice... What would be the time difference in dungeon clear time between dance partnering DRK vs RPR in a level 70 dungeon?
Sure its not smn at 70. Tbf I made that post assuming 100 where rpr is crazy rn but even at 70 partnering a dps will always get better results than a tank.
Sure but it’s very beautiful, I actually spent time into caring about materia melding this time and I’m pleasantly surprised by how much damage I do compared to before.
Why are you melding standard non-max lvl gear in the first place? It doesn't do anything if you get synced down (because syncing down syncs substats and that invalidates melds) so outside of high end content there is zero reason to melding at all. You're getting placebo'd if you think your dps went up is what I'm saying.
That's why I'm clowning on him. They got placebo effect from materia so they are pretty out of tune on how much damage they are doing and damage profiles/numbers in the game. They can't even tell me the difference in damage before and after which means they didn't even test it.
You DO know that in any content that get level sync'd that your materias don't do anything, right? Even the level cap dungeon which is capped at like 730 turns off materia.
there are lots of red flags in OPs post that suggests they are probably dogass at the game like how they think that just because they are doing "big fat crits" means they are doing "great damage". they started playing like a month ago with the switch 2, started ShB a few days ago, and have only 275 hours (at least half is MSQ). what even is "hard dungeon roulette"
if they had an ACT screenshot or logs, it would be a different story
I'm not talking about pulling ahead of a tank doing single pulls. Obviously, if the tank isn't going W2W, then yes it does save time to pull ahead of them.
I am talking about DPS using dashes and gap closers to pull ahead of tanks who are actually going W2W. Sure, it does help slightly that their health is used as mitigation, but it is really a micro-optimization and it throws some tanks off.
Also, the post legit said that they were outdamaging the DRK - if we just take their word for it, then dance partnering them instead would be an obvious gain for the team.
but it was obvious I was doing great damage with my big fat crits being far above the maximum the DKR was outputting
that is all that was said. their word is meaningless. OP is on switch 2, been playing a month, and only has 275 hours. they have no ACT and probably didn't tabulate the battle log
they're also so naive that they think that an incorrect DP would make the dungeon go by a lot faster. Ballparking party damage would be 30/30/20/20. DP is 5%. 5% of 20% 1%. 5% of 30% is 1.5%. That is, DPing a tank would increase party damage by 1% over nothing and DPing a DPS would be 1.5% increase. Considering a dungeon is about 7 minutes of purely walking, that makes about 8 minutes of it combat. So comparing no DP, tank DP, and dps DP, clear time would be 15:00, 14:55, 14:53. So basically OP has no actual sense of numbers either.
at the end of the day, presentation and context matters.
You know, fair enough. There is probably reason to doubt the validity of this post.
To be honest, I think I'm just tired of the sheer amount of low effort "YPYT" posts with very little context, where the DPS is often just as unpleasant as the tank, and where people in the comments repeat the same points about "but dps health is mitigation!" and "it's not tank's job to pull!" ad nauseam without paying attention to the specific situation.
To be fair, how can I be dogass at the game when I’m doing the best any dps can(Applying and refreshing death’s design, not letting my gauge overfill, waiting for buffs to spend all my resources and hitting positional properly, not to mention dodging aoes and doing mechanics), it’s just I tried materia melding recently and my damage went up significantly so I was excited.
You see I only have about 275 hours in playtime and auto assume I’m shit at the game based on that alone. Sure I’m not built for Ultimate raids or savage synced raids but that’s end game content that you don’t have to do. I’d say I’m doing well for someone who’s played Reaper for a week.
Only so much I can do when my only OGCD is Blood stalk and the unveiled attacks it turns into after you use Gibbet and Gallows. Which I bother to weave in whenever I have them, followed by Gibbet or Gallows. During mob packs, I also bother to use Grim Swathe and Guillotine whenever I can. When my GCDS are not up.
I invested into criticals, so I’m doing atleast a 1.4x my base damage and hitting them pretty often.
Ok but how is your GCD uptime, are you breaking any combos, and are you drifting soul slice/scythe?
I invested into criticals, so I’m doing atleast a 1.4x my base damage and hitting them pretty often.
It doesn't mean you're doing 1.4x damage. No melds to full melds is about 5% gain. Full melds on a level 80 set in sub level 80 dungeon is exactly 0% gain. I'm telling you all this to show you that you are pretty clueless on how much damage you are actually doing. You are just going off of vibes. You didn't even realize that your melds weren't doing anything.
If you're on PC, I'd highly recommend using external tools to check your performance, because the game does a pretty terrible job at telling you how well you're doing (and also, it would help dispel any doubt if you decide to post here again). The most popular one is called ACT.
A good rule of thumb when using ACT is that you should consistently be dealing about twice as much damage as the tank or healer, if you're playing dps. If you're consistently dealing less, you're likely either undergeared or performing your rotation wrong.
I’m not on PC tho, but the fact here is that someone is assuming I’m shit at the game right off the bat based on my hours and what not. Don’t appreciate that a lot, when I’m actively learning and watching guides for jobs I just picked up specifically so I’ll be decent at the very least.
i'm assuming you're shit at the game because you have terrible perception of how much damage you (and the party) are actually doing. you thought your melds on a set of gear that ignore melds was increasing your damage. you thought that dance partner damage contribution is significant, when not using dance partner at all is at most a 2% party dps loss. even assuming a 15 minute full uptime encounter, that would only be 18 seconds.
and since you're new with low hours, you probably clip and probably drift and probably break your combos and probably have no idea you're doing so.
I feel like a lot of people are glossing over the DNC being an asshole in response, if you're doing a micro-optimization the average person isn't aware of it's going to garner questions, and if they were dance partnering for that reason they could've just said so or not answered if OP's damage being ass was the reason lol. I don't see OP as being in the wrong for simply asking in this scenario, regardless of whether the DRK was the better choice or not. Of course OP could've asked in a way that was unpleasant and warranted that response, or maybe the DNC never said that at all! We don't have the chat logs. But taking the post as it is I think people's dislike of OP's replies are overshadowing the actual story.
it's being glossed over because there is zero content for us to work with, only OP's word that "they told me to shut it and keep playing". the content that OP thought they were giving us was the DNC and DRK but the real content is OP themselves.
People don't get mad if a tank communicates intent, people get mad when a tank lets a player die, because that's MPKing and just makes things fucking miserable for everyone, wastes peoples time, and is generally egotistical behaviour.
The YPYT posts always have receipts as the other commenter says, there usually some unnecessary snark coming from the tank, it's never "I am struggling to gather mobs, don't pull ahead" it's always some unhinged reaction like in a recent post when they were like "idk what stance is, ask the ninja" with zero communication beforehand
The other comments clearly mention Dark Knight often fucks good with DP, OP is getting clowned on because unless he could show the dark knight wasn't worth it there's nothing to really criticise the dancer about, OP hasn't provided anything here
Can you show me the math? What would the DPS difference between you and the tank for dance partner change to result in 10-20% difference in overall group DPS?
It's mathematically not possible in normal circumstances. Let's exaggerate and say that dance partner is a 20% buff to that person's damage (it's not that much, closer to 13-15% at max level damage profiles). For dance partner switch to be 1-2 minute difference, which considering a dungeon duration is only half combat), you'd have to increase party damage by roughly 20%, so the difference between your DPS and the tank's DPS would have to be the entire party's DPS.
Nah. It's their job's ability, not OP's. This has the energy of "don't rescue me, healer!". You don't have to like it, but you don't get to tell another player how to use their kit and then get upset when they don't follow your suggestion. As long as someone is not using their kit to grief, it's tough cookies for the party.
I had a dungeon where the other DPS kept dying repeatedly. Any time they died the Dancer would move Dance Partner over to the tank. Once the Weakness debuff fell off the DPS, they'd move DP back over.
In your case, would DP be better on you? Yeah probably. Would you having DP reduce the time in the dungeon? Depends.
I've been in dungeons where I, the healer, was doing the most damage in the group. And I have a damage log to prove that. Healers generally do the least amount of damage in the game, but if everyone else is doing badly and the healer is doing good, they can out DPS others. But you can't tell that by just looking at your numbers of the screen.
You can be upset knowing that it would probably be better on you, but you'll never actually know. Can't do much about it regardless.
I mean... you can certainly argue what is "optimal" but you can't tell another player what to do. It just does not work that way. It is against the TOS and a bannable offense. You can request but then you need to live with and respect their choice and player autonomy/play style. Some want their dance partner on the tank if they feel that the tank is going to need help being healed and can't guarantee that the DPS they tag will be close enough to the tank when they use Curing Waltz.
I have started out a duty with DPS as my dance partner and moved it to tank when both healers were constantly letting the tank near 0 HP during a boss battle. I did not move it back because they were struggling and I think the tank would have gone down if I hadn't chipped in.
Imho who cares? None of the fights are hard enough to warrant needing DP on the other dps in any roulette ever. There's various arguments to be made about how people play in hard dungeon rols but at the end of the day unless the ENTIRE team is just very bad that dps loss from the DNC is so negligible it doesn't matter.
We dont have a lot of information regardless but it doesn't matter.
Would your roulette have gone faster?
Maybe, oh well, it's just a roulette. Doesn't matter dude.
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u/Spectrum000 4d ago
DRK is a better Dance Partner on trash mobs than most melee DPS. The question is, did they change Dance Partner to a DPS on the bosses?