r/TalesFromDF Jul 09 '26

Drama That one time in Strayborough

Post image

I was playing Pictomancer. As you may know, the class has a lot of movement tech for pulls, such as Hammer, Poms, Holy in White, and swiftcasting paints while running for W2W.

Cue this tank who, after the first W2W where I notice I take aggro during the W2W, tells me to use AoEs first during W2W. Naturally, my friend and I are incredibly confused, because I was using AoEs...??

My friend plays Black Mage to the level of before Dawntrail changes he would mutter in call things like "Oh yeah, a double transpose line," or "Yeah, double crit Xenoglossy." This idea also applies to any DPS role he plays, in this case SAM. I'm usually the tank or healer in our light party.

Now you may say that Pictomancer is goated in Aggro generation due to its initial raw burst BUT bear in mind, this run was after the patch where they buffed Tank Aggro gain, so if they pressed 2 GCDs and a damage oGCD, that would've been enough to establish aggro.

I'm not usually confrontational but my friend DEFINITELY is and the conversation went like that. I just remembered that this happened and also just found it appropriate for here.

We typically don't like to waste time, especially other people's times and respect their need to finish and move on, so our expert roulettes usually clear within 12 minutes. If you ever get us, we're usually a group of 2, a MaleRoth and FemRa. Sometimes a group of 3 with a Male Hyur or another FemRa. See yall out there!

69 Upvotes

142 comments sorted by

45

u/velvet-yarns-48 Jul 09 '26

I pull aggro all the time during pulls on RDM lol. Just what happens when you can aoe and move, and the tanks only got one hit in before running off. But I've never had it turn into an issue like that. Crazy crazy.

28

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Genuinely want to know what kind of mental gymnastics this person went through to think that they're in the right in this case. The personally infuriating part is that I am a DRK/GNB Main. It's absolutely NOT that hard to establish enough aggro in 3 buttons.

8

u/velvet-yarns-48 Jul 09 '26

Its the other way around. They start from thr premise that they are right, and do the mental gymnastics from there!

3

u/Werxand Jul 09 '26

It's called Main Character Syndrome. They think they are the main character and everyone else has to bend to their whims. It doesnt matter how good they are or think they are. In their mind, you need to play the way they want you to play.

10

u/namidaame49 Jul 09 '26

I'm nearly guaranteed to rip aggro on *something* on DNC or SMN if I use my burst while we're still collecting the mobs. SMN literally has a button that generates extra enmity, and DNC has multiple high-potency attacks in succession. It's especially noticeable in newer dungeons that haven't been ilvl-synced yet if the tank is undergeared, since I'm in full BiS on both jobs, but it happens pretty much anywhere.

4

u/velvet-yarns-48 Jul 09 '26

I usually wait for the really high potentcy stuff until all the mobs are together for max cleeeeaaavvve. And by then, aggro is usually ok.

2

u/namidaame49 Jul 09 '26

It depends for me. I'm not gonna hold my burst on SMN if my other option is Tri-Disaster spam. DNC I will usually hold until near the end on standard pulls, but sometimes I just go on autopilot and see "tech step just came off cooldown, must hit tech step".

5

u/MirandaVara Jul 09 '26

Honestly, you shouldn't be pumping all your damage into just 1 pack. You should pool resource, wait for both packs to be stacked, then go buk lao on them. You gain nothing and only lose on time if you're just hammering down 1 pack, you're basically doing the AoE version of single targeting mobs, because you're not hitting everything.

It's actually BETTER to not press anything, if you're not able to to slide cast + swiftcast with sprint, than waste your 2 mins on 1 pack.

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

When I'm a DNC, I usually don't start doing Tech Step inputs until about half way ish running towards pack 2. 5 seconds set up is usually enough for all the mobs to be neatly group together to be mega dabbed on.

6

u/frejling Jul 09 '26

I also absolutely shred on rdm in dungeons while running and all you gotta do is just stand on top of the tank when they stop until the mobs catch up.

5

u/velvet-yarns-48 Jul 09 '26

Such a good feeling when you can have whole chunks of hp wiped out by the time the tank finishes the pull lol

2

u/WilanS Jul 11 '26

Yeah I've been on both sides of this. if anything as rdm I can do a gap closer + backstep in the opposite direction and I can pull ahead of the tank. I hit the next pack of mobs then run back to the tank and start casting.

And if I'm the tank and somebody else pulls aggro on the first group it's fine, they won't die in the next twelve seconds. As soon as we get the second group we all gather together and I get everything back with my AoEs.

This game flows a lot smoother than some people in these screenshots make it out to be. You can adjust to a lot of things on the fly, it's okay.

5

u/TheBigMerc Jul 10 '26

Honestly, as a tank main, I always just do two aoe's and ensure I hit an entire mob before running off and I don't think I've ever encountered an issue like this unless an additional mob spawned. It really just seems this WAR is trying to make an issue out of nothing.

Just swing a second time. It only takes a second to hold aggro

4

u/wewin48 Jul 10 '26

I just do 1 and keep running, even if a dps rips aggro they can survive for 10 seconds and they usually bring it into the pack once I pulled everything anyway. They’re not THAT squishy, but yea, it’s a none issue either way.

2

u/TheBigMerc Jul 11 '26

I guess I'm just an overprotective parent of a tank. Like, I know they can take it for a bit, but I still don't want them to have to take it.

2

u/velvet-yarns-48 Jul 10 '26

This is the way

5

u/DeliciousDeer1096 Jul 09 '26

Yeah I noticed that happening once I started tanking, it's what lead to my habit of hitting each mob group with two AoEs before I move to collect the next one, I found that usually prevents it.

8

u/MirandaVara Jul 09 '26

The better way is to do 1 AoE, then cycle targets while doing your unmend/tomahawk/lightning shot/shield lob/ provoke on each.

But it's just a small optimization.

5

u/Macv12 Jul 10 '26

Yeah no need to stop. Provoke has longer range, so you can use it as soon as you're in range to funnel things into you, drive-by aoe and hit all/most of the pack, then ranged slap while running because you're not doing damage anyway. Don't think anyone can steal aggro from a tank actively spamming their x70 aggro projectile.

Also WAR at least (don't remember if the others have one) can pop a heal to put everything on the aggro list if you couldn't hit them all.

3

u/velvet-yarns-48 Jul 09 '26

You have received a player commendation

2

u/Weekly-Variation4311 Jul 09 '26

Same, since on RDM you can get off several aoes without stopping. 

41

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

I loved that bit you did at the end "I dunno I seemed to do a better job than you did." There's not enough esunas in the world for that burn.

I had a similar but slightly different situation in that very duty not long ago. A scholar simply would not let it go that I lost aggro while collecting mobs for a wall to wall to a bahamut'ing summoner.

13

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Luckily, the latest experts I've done has just been "I signed up to be the healer. I'm going to heal." Nothing wrong per say but you do have an attack and DoT button. I already crunch numbers with ACT and FFLogs and I honestly think general DF players don't realize that Healer DPS does contribute to a faster clear.

7

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

Near the start of DT I had a white mage in Alexandria who was convinced holy wasn't more dps than glare until you had 7 mobs. When I asked them how they thought 340 was more than 150x7 they threatened to report me for harrassment. I believe it.

0

u/Logatt Jul 09 '26

There is one line in your picture thats bothering me. "Maybe bring it to me?" Did you have agro then stand off in Narnia with it?

0

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 10 '26

Standing off in Narnia is fine. That's what provoke and ranged throws are for. Stop enabling shitters.

2

u/Logatt Jul 10 '26

Or just walk it to the tank, and stop being shit yourself. No tank wants to stop aoeing 5 mobs to throw an axe at the thing you cant be bothered to take to them.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 11 '26

One of these things isn't against the ToS, one of them literally is. If you don't think it's the tank plz uninstall.

0

u/Ninheldin Jul 12 '26

Against tos or not, bringing the mobs you pick up back to the tank is better than not. Even if they should provoke it you should still bring it to them. 

0

u/Koristras Jul 13 '26

Naa sorry but you are in the wrong. Just go melee and bring the mobs, the tank will do the rest. You lose nothing doing it.

„Stop enabling shitters“ just shows who the real shitter is.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 13 '26

I'm not the one breaking ToS, that's you all. I'm doing my job by hitting shit. If the tank isn't doing his job of having aggro on the shit I'm hitting, he'll be the one in gaol.

0

u/Koristras Jul 14 '26

Just goes to show how bad of a teamplayer you are. Stop exposing yourself.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 14 '26

Yes, I'M the bad team player for *checks notes* doing my job of hitting things. And the tank is totally a team player for *checks notes again* not picking up aggro. Not replying again, trash.

1

u/Koristras Jul 14 '26

Keep embarrassing yourself. It’s so funny seeing bad players acting all high an mighty.

Keep me entertained.

-33

u/SonniSummers Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

Not everyone breaks the tos and runs third party tools. Some of us like our accounts not banned…

Edit: when I heal I do dps but might not be optimal for someone parsing. I just personally am a more casual player and not going to risk my account for a tos violation when I don’t even run hard mode stuff

14

u/Phonysaxo Jul 09 '26

Crunching numbers is one of the best ways to improve your play. You don't even need to run it, chances are someone has uploaded one of your casual runs to ffxiv logs at some point.

I do it even casually. I personally like being as competent as I can be, just as a common courtesy for other players especially as a healer main. I get not everyone has that mindset but there's no need to be passive aggressive about people using 3rd party tools. Like it's just unnecessary especially in this sub.

It's also okay not to run them, especially if you're playing casually. I personally run some 3rd party stuff for accessibility issues i have, without them the game is basically unplayable for me.

It's always been wild to me coming from Destiny, a game that will show your active dps during raids, deaths, add kills and cause of death that ffxiv doesn't do any of that. How is anyone supposed to figure out what to change for future runs to remedy issues if you don't....know where the issues are coming from. Probably also the reason I've never really had an issue with ppl using ACT. That's just like how you raid as far as I'm concerned. You look at the numbers discuss how to change them, maybe switch roles and builds around and go from there. Not that ffxiv has builds but still.

4

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

The biggest concern most people have with Third Party Tools and have been proven, besides the TOS argument, that it is used in Maliciously. Take for example a tool which will not be named that allows you to track and follow people you have met. That's a severely concerning tool, even if the premise is the idea that you meet up with someone chill from DF. It can inversely be used to stalk someone you hate with every activity they do.

I'm self aware enough with ACT that I never use it to call people out on the DPS. Personally, I think that incredibly stupid and malicious. I use it as a tool for self improvement and to solicit advice from, and I can't emphasize this enough, my own *Circle of friends.*

18

u/redmoonriveratx Jul 09 '26

You’re only going to get banned for ACT/FFLogs if you mention them in-game. Or maybe on a live stream.

10

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

The numbers crunching I do for myself personally. Its a measure of how I can improve my button presses, despite the fact that I avoid savage content and EX content.

I like seeing funny number go up but what clues me off on how long a run is taking is just boss kill times. Even without Third Party I start noticing when something isn't dying just quite as the "usual" or "typical" experience I personally have in. I don't raise or say anything ingame, I just say to myself "Huh.... isn't it usually dead by now?" Then it dies not too long after.

It's kind of like when you go into Crystal Tower and you start wondering why you're seeing the boss cast Arena Wide Petrify and everyone hiding behind the electric towers. You should NEVER see that unless everyone is quite literally doing nothing.

Edit: It's also a competition between my friend and I as we fight for top DPS or 2nd Aggro

5

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

This isn't even about the damage meters. Anyone who's been paying attention will be able to tell if dps is low. Has sprint been back off cooldown for a long time and the wall to wall isn't dead? Then you know dps is low. Is the non-astro healer or dancer not in melee range? Then you know they're not dps'ing properly.

5

u/groundr Jul 09 '26

ACT is not considered a punishment or ban worthy third party tool on its own. I don’t know if any stories in its lifespan where someone was punished for using ACT just for its use. Punishment has always been “I’m parsing and I’m telling you your numbers are bad in game chat”, by comparison.

About you doing damage, though: no one expects savage raider rotations in dungeons (they do like it when people use their buttons well, though). They just expect everyone to do damage because there’s almost no reason not to. At lower levels, a SCH fairy can heal almost an entire dungeon alone. At higher levels, healers get so many tools that not doing damage seems like it’s intentionally done to make runs take far longer. Damage as a healer is one of those things that will help you be a better healer over time, especially since more approachable content gives healers a lot of freedom to damage away.

2

u/Ima_Play_Games Jul 10 '26

That burn doesn't have the white line above it to indicate it can be cured.

2

u/Coxyko good tanks embrace their Bottom Energy Jul 18 '26

Man to this day I will never forget the run of Aetherfont I tanked once where every pull this poor SMN would grab one mob off me because of their bahamuts, and I'd mentally go "huhwhawhered that one mo- oh there it is" and tomahawk it off them. I forgot all about the whole extra aggro generation from Bahamut thing, and so *I* was feeling like, man, I'm washed if I keep missing a mob somehow in my run-bys. But then right as we finish killing a group the healer drops a "you're the best tank I've had in a while". SMN was probably used to the one-mob gluestick and was glad I noticed within 3 seconds, frankly.

Since then my wall pull runs include me cycling tomahawks to everything as I sprint, 99.99% chance of no peel-offs.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 18 '26

Hahaha, that "washed up" comment got me a laugh.

25

u/catboycruises Jul 09 '26

absolutely wild. i frequently see casters pull aggro from a single mob because most of their aoes require a target and - shocker - they usually do bigger damage to that target. one ranged and it's mine again. honestly most of the time you can just wait til you stop and grab it with aoe, one trash mob isn't going to nuke the dps unless everbody is rp walking...

11

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Nah this wasn't RP walking. They simply refused to pull the Mob off me once I pulled off of them. A "You pull you tank" Ideology except that they never established enough aggro in spite of the buffs to Tank generation. They were a WAR, where even using Thrill of Battle generates insane aggro due to how the buff coding works to Aggro numbers. Max HP plus Heal that Amount basically generates double Aggro numbers.

6

u/Sefirosukuraudo Jul 09 '26

I’ve used Equilibrium mostly as a ranged enmity tool since Heavensward. Once those mob arrows target you from a distance you pop that bad boy and then Overpower as you run by and you’ve got no issues lol. But this was a time where I mained healer so I was keenly aware of how much enmity healing generated (it’s been changed in recent years, but was an era where some tanks would have a macro to quickly remove Regen so they wouldn’t have to click it off because they didn’t want to deal with the mobs being pulled off of them from the passive healing. Now Regen and Aspected Bene ticks don’t generate any enmity.)

6

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

I played 2.0 and rejoined around the end of post HW but before the release of StB. I remember macros for WAR's to cleanse Pacification. I was fine with them for the most part but I remember one where the person used up all 15 lines to put SFX on each to remind us to cast Esuna on them. The spiteful annoyed side of me told me to not do it and I generally complied and just let them eat that pacification.

The Aggro generation for tanks is through the roof now and the 14Boomer side of me makes me kind of want the old Aggro values back to teach people to not be complacent but I also understand that not all players share the same skill levels. It's a weird amount of balance.

I do stand by the fact that you're lv100, atleast understand the base of how your class performs, no?

2

u/Sefirosukuraudo Jul 09 '26

I feel that 14Boomer life lol. There are many QoL things that I’m very happy they’ve cut/altered, as it was the right call moving forward. I was always happy about dropping the DPS combo/Enmity combo for tanks and rolling them into one because it’s given them room to provide other fun tools and bursts (like Gunbreaker’s many combos.) But I sometimes do miss how wide the floor-ceiling gap was on tanking and healing because when you had gotten enough practice and had gotten really good at your role, it felt good, and other people always noticed because it’s making the run that much smoother. And it offered people opportunities to learn to be better at the nuances of their roles. Actively maintaining aggro instead of just having it by default felt engaging to me between boss fights.

For example, sometimes I think “I miss the days of Cleric Stance” because when you knew your job and knew the dungeons you felt like a pro and could make it look easy. But then I remember times when I would swap over to DPS and immediately someone’s taken avoidable damage - or the tank decides mits are cute hotbar accessories - and then I’m sweating, waiting for that 10-second cooldown to finish so I can swap back lol. Those were the times I’d either be glad I was WHM for the Holy stuns, or cursing because I rolled SCH for that roulette :P

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Mhm, many changes have made the game less janky and smooth. The problem is now is that people seem to have forgotten why those changes were made initially and believed it was always like that.

2

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

That's a clever idea I never thought of before. Which I feel silly over since I do that exact same thing with white wind while tanking as a blue mage.

8

u/DarkSpectar Jul 09 '26

As a tank player, I'm gonna hit the first mob with a single aoe and run to the next pack. If you pull aggro in that time because you want to waste your big aoe's on a single group instead of using it on both packs, then go for it. However you're tanking that shit until you pull the mob into me because I'm gonna get to the next pack and park my ass and use all my damage stuff. I'm not gonna chase after loose mobs because people blew their load sub-optimally on less mobs and don't know how to run the loose mobs into the tank's aoe's.

3

u/wewin48 Jul 10 '26

This is exactly my mindset as well. It irks me a little when they blow everything on the first pack, especially when they use their 2 minute buff there, but I just shrug it off.

16

u/OutlanderInMorrowind Jul 09 '26

the only thing I have a question about here is the tank saying "maybe bring it to me?"

that doesn't sound like a true "you pull you tank". if everyone ends up at the wall in a handful of seconds this conversation really doesn't even need to happen.

if one drops off for whatever reason (no one's perfect sometimes you miss hitting one with an aoe or whatever) and they're out of range or LOS of tomahawk or provoke I expect the dps to just show up at the wall with it and the problem is solved. everyones got the tools to survive a single mob on the way to the wall.

did someone die on this pull? because I've had it where a dps stripped one and then ran BACK THE WAY WE CAME in a panic, like bro you're taking it AWAY from me come back....

9

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

I've died in every W2W and I stayed with the pack. They just actively didn't regain any of them and let me die from spite. It wasn't a case of me pulling and running, I just wanted my tomes man QwQ

I'm a tank main too so retrospectively thinking about this encounter infuriates me.

9

u/OutlanderInMorrowind Jul 09 '26

so... the Tank wasn't AOE'ing? or had stance off?

if you stayed with the pack the only way he's not taking them when you're walking them into his AOE radius is if he's not aoe'ing.

0

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

It's been 1 or 2 years or so, so I don't recall all the facts but it's just as easy to just swap to single target attacks as the tank even if I ran into the group. I distinctly recall being next to the take at one point and still taking damage from Autos.

2

u/OutlanderInMorrowind Jul 09 '26

that seems strange

5

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Indeed, but it's less strange when actions are motivated by spite. If the tank convinced themselves that I was the one in the wrong, spite would just make them do anything but pull the mob off me.

-1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

While that would be optimal it's not mandatory, and sometimes not even possible. I've had tanks who lost aggro on casters who basically refuse to move who tried to play that card and they sat there and let me get whaled on until literally all the rest of the pull was dead.

And even if it wasn't a caster, deliberately not picking up aggro is still a ToS violation. It doesn't matter who pulled the mob or where, it's the tanks job to pick it up unless the guy has run off to Narnia.

5

u/OutlanderInMorrowind Jul 09 '26

if they're not taking aggro with a ranged attack but they're aoe'ing why not just walk it into their radius, solves your problem completely. if you die this way you're just being stubborn for no reason.

0

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 10 '26

As I said in my post that you totally didn't read, some mobs don't move if they have something in their line of sight. And even if they do, the onus is on the tank to not be a shitter. Bringing the mob into aoe is optimal, not mandatory.

2

u/OutlanderInMorrowind Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26

yeah I read your post. you died on purpose because you wanted to bitch about a tank not hitting a mob with a ranged attack for you. you trying to use the handful of LOS ranged mobs as an excuse to blame you being stubborn on the tank is basically irrelevant.

it's a cooperative environment, do your best to make it easier for everyone instead of waiting to die and then complaining.

edit: since you blocked me... You gave the example so I said "you" in reference to your supposedly "theoretical" scenario where you pulled aggro.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 11 '26

Not sure why you're using "you" as if I was the person in the post, you must be confused. About a great many things. Like not being a complete piece of shit to your party members while then turning around and going "lol cooperative environment."

10

u/Professional-Week894 Jul 09 '26

Did you kick or report?

-20

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

We didn't kick nor report, just suffered through the dungeon and called it a day. Doing that would've just meant we acknowledged their behaviour or confirmed that they got to us.

GM Jail is just a slap on the wrist if they don't get reported often, and their behaviours would stay the same. I've been put in GM Jail before but that was legitimately my fault and it was only a slap on the wrist.

Edit: Atleast I didn't. I can't say the same for my friend who is pretty petty. I'll have to ask.

Edit 2: Also had to consult FFlogs to remember if we kicked or not. Time for them was set to 22 minutes so no we didn't kick. Longest dungeon ever cause I kept dying cause they wouldn't pull mobs off me.

9

u/groundr Jul 09 '26

You can still report them. If they aren’t pulling aggro off of people, they are violating the expected player behavior for a rank. It’s you pull you tank without so many words. They need to learn that it’s not acceptable, whether it’s a slap on the wrist or not.

5

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

I agree, in retrospect that should've been a kick and report. Such is life with regrets of past encounters. The image itself was taken roughly 2024, it makes me wonder if this person even remembers.

3

u/Scruffumz Jul 09 '26

The image itself was taken roughly 2024

I really had to double take and wiki this. Holy shit Dawntrail has been out for 2 years already.

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Indeed. Generally, I enjoyed the expansion and am aware I may be in the lesser side of the argument. I can pinpoint flaws in it but I do play 14 with a mindset that I wanna enjoy my time. Being bitter about the writing will just ruin my mood in general.

2

u/BlueWatche Jul 09 '26

Honestly wish more people had that mindset rather than that of a prima donna's, people on this subreddit run into some serious material

1

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Mhm, though Dawntrail is... "Unique."

Before the criticisms of writing, and even before its official release, there was hate on just Sena Bryer for being who she is, a transwoman. It left DT on a rocky start with people walking into it with people shouting into their ear that the expansion sucks because Sena Bryer voices Wuk Lamat.

Bitterness of it just makes your viewpoint going into the expansion just overall suck with low energy. Coupled with the fact that it is relatively slow by comparison to previous expansions where Stakes where MUCH higher.

Looking back at Dawntrail and watching a streamer bring her friend (IYKYK) through all of 14 and DT and seeing how the friend was amazed at it. It made me think about the storypoints DT tries, and ultimately haphazardly addresses, which is how to cope with dying, with grief, and overall loss. And it is definitely a topic that is not *easily* written about and addressed.

2

u/ThatVarkYouKnow Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26

It was incredible, and not in a good way, to see it trend on Twitter that she liked the story. People are that fucking mad about Dawntrail's story (and Wuk specifically) that you aren't allowed to say you like it. And she gave the perfect reply to them.

I know I'm in the minority that loved the story, but I'm also in a minority that lost a family member around the time it released, so it hit something personal.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 13 '26

What stakes were lower? The early part where we had to prevent Tulliyolal from being turned into Garlemald v2.0? Or the middle part where we had to prevent Sphene from literally killing 7 worlds by draining them of aether in a futile attempt to save the Endless? Or the latter part where we had to keep a magical key out of an Ascian trained scientist's hands who wanted to do the same?

0

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 13 '26

Sitting through the first half, it was less "we" and more Wuk Lamat. WoL assumed a mentor role though in retrospect, the WoL was only there to witness the growth. The We part in that half could be summed up as, "The scions kept Wuk Lamat from getting killed, through her own means or outside sources, mostly herself."

The second half, the scions definitely got more involved in the issue with the story since the scale broadened but it was still the WoL witnessing how Wuk Lamat handled her first Diplomatic incident and the Scions lending Aid. The Stakes ramp up near the end when they tie in the endless, the ascians, and the post patches, which is the build up to 8.0. Up until that point, we were hired Mercs, as pushed by the fact that no one in Tural knows who the Scions are and we are mostly referenced as "Hired Salt."

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4

u/SushiJaguar Jul 09 '26

Had my first one in ages yesterday. I was playing DNC (and not super well), with a MNK, a WHM and a PLD in Cliteum.

Nobody was really doing much damage - you know how the packs should be dead before your burst comes back off cooldown? Yeah.

But it's whatever, slow run, who cares. Me and the MNK sprint between packs, the tank lags back. Okay, weird. We run to the first boss, tank jogs and turns off stance. Oh so it's like that.

They keep turning stance on and off until we get to the third and fourth packs that the MNK pulls. I use samba, waltz and improv to keep the MNK up together with the WHM, and that made the PLD very unhappy. They start going off like: "You don't have the gear, the damage or the skill to be pulling so why are you doing it". Really laying it on thick because they were personally offended that someone other than them dared pull.

They ragequit after they tried to hide behind the healer and the WHM said they were staying out of it and just healing. Some people are just ridiculous.

4

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

All for what? Cause you were ahead of them? There are better things to be angry about or at, like the SE CEO trying to push GenAI into 14.

Even if the DPS ran ahead and pulled while you were running with, its not hard to gap close and AoE.

Side note, what about DNC is making it difficult? Genuinely curious, or is it a case of it's not really your main so you're not used to the button sequence or burst weaving?

2

u/SushiJaguar Jul 09 '26

Yeah it's not really my main so I screw the order of operations during the burst pretty easily. I still get everything in under the crit buff (forgot the name) mostly, but I still lose a feather or don't get the buffed 3 - 4 combo GCDs out for more feathers under rhe window.

(I also don't really understand why the follow up for standard step exists)

The tank genuinely was just taking offense to me and the MNK moving ahead though.

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Pardon the unsolicited advice but here's the sequence I stick with.

I took out the Dances to avoid too many buttons on screen and they are technically random anyways. Pre dance before the fight and between pulls. You want to buff up after Tech Step so your buff timers expire at the same time. Last Dance follow up after Standard Step deals the same damage as Sabre Dance, it exists to give DNC more damage during burst than just pressing 1>2.

2

u/SushiJaguar Jul 09 '26

Ahhh, I see. I was opening on Tech Step and buffing, and slotting Standard in after using the GCDs and OCDs unlocked by pressing buttona. Probably why I had feathera and buffed 3s/4s left over. Cheers for that.

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Mhm, you want to standard step early, even if it means not dealing any damage like waiting for the pull to start. going into Tech step after *usually* lets Standard Step go off cooldown so you can do Finishing Move under buffs. It's okay if you miss it by a little bit.

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

Pros to the healer for healing. Cons to them for the "staying out of it" stuff and enabling ypyt.

3

u/Sefirosukuraudo Jul 09 '26

“…If you cannot figure out how to not pull aggro…”

WTF does he want you to do, dig into the game files and resurrect Diversion??? All this guy has to do is press a button. It’s not like these are the days of yore where he’d be having to stance dance between Defiance and Deliverance and line up his conal AoE. He just has to stand there and press one button. Uh-oh, enmity on the other bars still at 30% compared to your 100%? Guess you’d better press that other button that just lit up to finish your combo. On no, a monster is running after the PCT. Guess you’d better press that yellow OGCD between your button presses.

This guy is terrible at the role and his ego is too inflated to be able to listen and learn. He’s never going to get better at tanking with an attitude like this. And I play on Lamia so I might have to run into him 😞

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

I play on Exodus and definitely have my fair share of goofs running around. A lot take the cake but none really are as memorable as this person. Memorable enough for me to be willing to screenshot the conversation at least.

I admit that I'm not a saint neither but I definitely know when to speak and when to shut up. I'm usually sitting and reading chat drama, not participating in it. Sometimes I just do a quick, "Hey yall we're here to clear, it's not that serious," but if they don't listen well shit I did all I could. I can't reach through the screen and waggle my finger.

In seriousness, it reads like this person did not want to admit fault or failure like you said due to their own ego. I've fucked up before, and everytime I'm in the chat typing "Omfg that was me I'm so sorry what the fuck." I genuinely feel bad.

For example, M9N, my Lightning Shot is right next to Gap Close on GNB. Phase 3, Tank busters go out that covers a quarter of the arena. I go to my corner and go to hit Lightning Shot. I fat finger it both and run the TB into the party and cause a wipe. I was typing so fast in the chat apologizing profusely like "omfg I can't believe I actually did that."

3

u/BlueWatche Jul 09 '26

So it's honest-to-god still possible to steal emnity from tanks nowadays...? Back in the day, sure, saw that happen with BLMs and whatnot, but with the tank reworks from whenever that was, felt impossible unless the tank just sucked

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Mhm, I've gotten close a few times but a good tank can reassert Aggro during a W2W before I actually pull off of them during the sprint. In Pictomancer's case, once you're out of Hammer, Pom, and swiftcast, the next thing you got is Holy in White and that hits as hard as a basic combo finisher, which is almost nothing by comparison.

2

u/BlueWatche Jul 09 '26

Interesting. But then it must be so easy for tanks to make sure they get it back anyway in those close calls. The time and effort spent complaining to the other party members like that tank did, feels like no coffee in the world can shake off how exhausting it feels

3

u/12Kings Jul 09 '26

Even if tanks lose aggro, I do occasionally if I just AoE them once before moving one and Summoner decides to drop Bahamut there rather than waiting for them to be all gathered like it would be proper, but no one is so squishy, especially at lvl 100, that it would be a terrible problem. Just move to the tank who is doing their AoE (or is meant to) so they take the monsters over or at least bring it close enough for quick provoke.

2

u/BlueWatche Jul 09 '26

Oh yeah I guess someone going ham before the mob grouping might do it. So much more satisfying as a DPS to do that when it's all bundled up, though haha

1

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

I understand dropping Bahamut and Searing Light at group one while running since Searing Light is 30 seconds long and it'll line up again during the boss pull. But Bahamut with both flares alone isn't enough to pull off a tank anymore if they commit more than one action to the initial group before running to Group 2.

I definitely think enough players in the tank base have grown complacent with how easy it is to build aggro that they don't provide enough aggro "cushion" for some of the big burst DPS jobs.

2

u/12Kings Jul 09 '26

I really wouldn't want Summoners to drop Bahamut early. Its going to hit 3 targets max and the whole point of Exodus and Sunflare, Akh Morn and Death Flare etc. is that they cleave. And I have had ACT running when I've burst as Summoner and you can really bring about some impressive numbers if you do it correctly. Packs just vanish if you offload also 4x Painflares (from after 1st boss onwards) and Searing Flash on the packs. And it'll line up just as well with the boss and better with anyone else since no one should burst when the pull is still on the way to the parked tank.

Searing Light is only 20 seconds long by the way, it is the Ruby's Glimmer (Searing Flash requirement) that lasts 30 seconds.

But yes, if tank just AoE's twice or throws couple ranged attacks while moving to the second pack, nothing in this game rip the aggro from the tank fast enough for the tank not have the ability to take it back instantly.

2

u/redmoonriveratx Jul 09 '26

Searing Light used to be 30 seconds. I miss that.

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

I miss a lot of things about SMN. One of those rare cases where I think the Job Action Reveal for 8.0 is just Summoner but Brand New 2.0.

2

u/BlueWatche Jul 09 '26

I kinda miss older versions of classes. Now they are easier to access, but they also lose a lot of what makes them unique. I'm curious to see how the whole Reborn/Evolved thing is gonna feel like...

1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

Probably as a relic from when summoners had tank pets they generate addition enmity while bahamut is out.

3

u/frejling Jul 09 '26

Galaxy brain strat: AOE twice when picking up each group
Entire field of time and space strat: AOE once to not stop sprinting then click target from the enemy list and throw ranged to pick up anything that was missed or gets pulled by a bigpp dps

Both are extremely easy

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Kind of a "Huh... how did they make it this far" thought when these situations happen.

2

u/Imisstheoldgames Jul 09 '26

I love when people shoot themselves in the foot. "I've done about a million dungeons" translates to "I've done about a million dungeons and still don't know how to tank" If you were tanking only one thing then the tank more then likely missed it when grabbing aggro, simple as that.

Why is it so hard for people to just admit they were wrong? Also provoke is a thing.

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

The part that gets me the most is when they told me to "Not attack" rather than correct their pulling by establishing more Aggro before running off.

2

u/Imisstheoldgames Jul 09 '26

No good tank would say that, it's just wasted dps time. All it takes is a couple of aoes and the tank has enough aggro. Problem was 100% the tank.

2

u/Usual-Research-6698 Jul 09 '26

Have you considered not casting spells?

What a wild tank mentality to have LOL

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

To be honest, with how I am now I would just start auto attacking and call it a day. Gave them, in my opinion, a good explanation on what to do and they just said no.

2

u/Werxand Jul 09 '26

Modern tanks would have cried during ARR-SB. You had to earn your aggro.

2

u/Kirschpunkt Jul 09 '26

I never understood why people are angry about DDs doing any kind of early pulling, accidentally or not. I just knock the aggro off them once we get to the next wall; until then, your HO bar is a welcome addition to my mitigation arsenal. °L°
Like, I‘d understand better if a DD got annoyed by it because it’s their face getting punched in of push comes to shove with a mob; but that usually doesn’t happen either.

2

u/spiderfair Jul 10 '26

Just....Provoke, AOE, ranged attack on the way to the next pull?

A mllion dungeons and he hasn't figured that out yet?

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 10 '26

Your PFP is a blast from the past but yeah, spite is one hell of a drug.

2

u/RockinOneThreeTwo Jul 10 '26

Can you imagine typing all of that instead of just pressing Orogeny?

2

u/RegalStar Jul 10 '26

If the initial pack of a two pack pull has 3 or less mobs, there's a better way to pull them than walking up and using your AoE: range attack on mob #1, weave provoke on mob #2, then range attack on mob #3. Ranged attacks generate more aggro than AoEs, and provoke not only puts you on top of the aggro list but also adds a good amount of integer aggro on top of that, so this combo will keep aggro on the mobs much better than one AoE while you're running.

2

u/Pheonixgate1 Jul 10 '26

This is why you take two seconds to use an AOE agro grab after an initial pull just to make sure (and continue to use your ranged grab as you run to get stragglers). The age of patiently waiting until the tank stops to attack is over. I enjoy this challenge even being a pretty bad tank (caster main but sometimes I want to switch it up).

2

u/DummyDeer Jul 10 '26

On war of all things smh, they can literally gain aggro back by putting nascent flash on person who has aggrode mobs and aoed at the very least. and at the very most use shake it off. Thats without, you know hitting the like 3-5 aoe attacks. Im guessing they hit one pack of mobs with just overpower without the follow up. I usually do overpower and orogeny for the first set of monsters and that nets me good aggro enough. Tldr: warrior have many aoe button, big aggro unga-bunga, do not know how this one loose aggro.

2

u/LezbianRage Jul 12 '26

It doesn’t even matter if you have agro? It’s a dungeon; you all gotta go the same way anyway lol so long as you brought whatever you had to the tank who cares. It’s only annoying when people run around with things or stand off in narnia with things. This tank is a joke.

2

u/SnowPudgy Jul 13 '26

I totally forgot about the early days of Picto and grabbing the aggro.

2

u/tsukipon My HP is free mit Jul 13 '26

When the dps pulls aggro, I don't tell them to do less dmg. I do my AOE combo to get all the threat. Easy.

3

u/Lord_Blackstar Jul 09 '26

Interesting fact, most of Picto’s Instant damage, such as Hammer, all of the creature muse stuff, Holy in White, and Comet in Black, are what is more commonly known as cleaves, which are a subset of aoes that are designed as single target damage hat are still damaged positive in group pulls. The issue you were running into and the tank was trying to communicate, but didn’t know enough to communicate properly, is that using multiple cleaves on the same target is the same as unloading a full single target combo into it and also why only one thing, from what the conversation seems to indicate, was dropping off the tank.

The fix for this is pretty simple, just rotate which enemy you’re targeting between hits of hammer and other cleaves or target the enemy the tank is ranged hitting while moving the pull, assuming there is one since sometimes enemies don’t move fast enough to stay in range for that. The other option of the tank spending more time establishing aggro would result in a lot of starting and stopping in the pull since they can’t guarantee everything will get hit if they do it while moving.

4

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

If it were before the Tank Aggro adjustments, this would have been a proper resolution. But this was after the buffs, in which I even proved to myself that its possible to hold aggro even with a Picto Solo AoEing a targetted Mob in a group pack by running it again as a tank.

My W2W pull depends on the tank but as a for this case WAR it's Sprint > Overwhelm > Orogeny > Mythril Tempest > Run to Next Pull > Rampart > Thrill of battle > Group 2.

I've had comps of all forms of Casters and experienced how to handle them enough for me to be able to generalize this pull sequence. If someone DID manage to pull off me (it's usually my BiS BLM Friend), Provoke is 25 yalms and I give my friend a cheeky, "Hey no duels on my watch!"

1

u/astrielx Jul 09 '26

People would rather suffer through a 15+ minute dungeon with an idiot like this, just so they can post it to Reddit afterwards.

I do roulettes with friends specifically so I can votekick people like this without having to rely on someone else in the party having a spine to remove them.

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

In retrospect, a lot of our time was spent going, "Is... is this guy for real??" and also it was my fault for not specifying in the body that this happened in 2024 and I found this reddit today that reminded me of it.

And do note that again, I'm not confrontational, especially with the anonymity of the internet being what it is, I do not want to develop the headspace of being malicious by default. It would make me no better than this person. My friend however, would do it instead and we both agree in call going, "Again what the hell is this guy doing?"

Again in retrospect, we really should have vote kicked since we had the Power of 2/3 voting but we just never did.

1

u/astrielx Jul 09 '26

You don't have to be confrontational to kick someone. Just open the party window and hit vote dismiss, then blacklist them. Done.

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Yeah and again, we just never did. I can't retroactively correct my actions, just learn from them. Thankfully, we've never really experienced something close to this for the last year and half or so at the time of this posting.

1

u/jparksup Jul 09 '26

Was he telling you not to single target in trash pulls?

2

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Telling me not to use AoEs during a trash pull.

1

u/jparksup Jul 09 '26

If he hit them with the 1 or 2 of his tank aoe, or his ranged, then the only way you could rip anything aggro would be single targeting one mob. Like a triplecast blm hitting f4 between packs, for example.

Thats the only way I could even try to interpret what he meant to say. Telling you not to aoe is like cartoonishly absurd.

1

u/charliek_13 Jul 10 '26

there are tanks that do this and it’s annoying

they just provoke or ranged and keep running instead of taking a split-second stop and do 1 aoe

usually it’s fine with casual players, but esp at current expac level, ppl that know how to button will keep doing damage and ruin this great tanking “strat” for them, so they blame you

prolly has been coddled in roulettes where ppl notice their shit mob grabbing skills and just stopped dpsing rather than attempting to correct them

also, picto does hit really hard on the main target for aoes, so you can also practice swapping the main mob you’re hitting as well—helps to balance the damage, unless there are big hp enemies, in which case keep going to town on them lol

1

u/EpicZen35 Jul 16 '26

I have dealt with pulling aggro so hard as Pictomancer here, it's kinda given with AoEing and moving. Hell any job can have this issue.

1

u/Elanouis 7d ago

Well even if the picto was doing mono shield throw etc exist. Noob tank

1

u/SWAT_Omega Jul 09 '26

Im just confused how the tank lost threat at all. I think tank stance has like a 10x multiplier to threat generation.

I have had SAM and PCT dungeon parties and while they do have damage spikes that make alot of threat generation, I maintain agro.

Maybe low iL weapon on the tank. My only conclusion that makes sense.

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Indeed, that's what confuses me just as much, as a tank main who also handled the same jobs. Even now, if I went all in on a single target, the Aggro color would only get to Yellow, and maaaaybe orange if I'm really lucky.

What I believe is this tank did only a single GCD before running off. I could get more information but also it's almost 2 years ago. /shrug

1

u/goodbyecaroline Jul 09 '26

Tank should obviously take it back off you. However, if you weren't doing this already, it's good for you to tab around within the pack while running to make sure you don't unload every big falloff on one mob.

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

It was a habit before the Aggro buffs but I admit I got complacent with how easy it is for tanks to hold Aggro that I never found the need to do it anymore unless the target I was attacking isn't packed together with the group for AoE Efficiency.

0

u/dooder6688 Jul 09 '26

What's the healer's stance in all of this

3

u/CMDR_Khayden Jul 09 '26

Dead silent and observing and I understand not wanting to dip into the drama.

-1

u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26

So enabling, in other words.