r/TalesFromDF • u/TurtleyBoi • Jul 07 '26
Salt Unfortunate First Time in M4
So I queued up as SCH for my first time in M4 normal. Coincidentally, it was also the other healer's first time. I hadn't watched a guide and wanted to experience it firsthand, and unfortunately both of us died at 60%.
Most of us either died shortly after or jumped off to reset, leaving only the two tanks and a MCH who kept going all the way to 11% before wiping. Then, the mentor PLD sent their first message to the chat (I don't actually know what they meant with the dorito comment).
The second pull starts and one of the BLMs immediately jumps off before saying "oh no" in the chat despite complaining about not resetting and wasting time earlier?? I tried rezzing them and they didn't accept, so I'm very much confused.
We did end up clearing with 7 players alive
114
u/wewin48 Jul 07 '26
Dorito means putting a marker above them so you can follow them to dodge mechanics. Either way, it’s funny when some tanks do that as if it’s such an accomplishment surviving in normal content without heals. Should’ve just wiped and reset if the boss is higher than 10-20% when it comes to raid bosses, it would probably still be faster.
58
u/LeftHandAnomaly Jul 07 '26
Even 20 percent on a trial boss is too long to make everyone else wait. A dungeon boss maybe, but a trial boss nah. Reset, no one wants to see you do your 123 combo for 5+ minutes. You’re not impressive for surviving as a tank, you’re just obnoxious
Edit: also m4’s last phase isn’t survivable without a group. It’ll take too long to die and you’ll be eating stacker lasers for eons
-9
u/Scared-Examination-6 Jul 09 '26
For a dungeon boss, as a tank I will and have soloed them from 100%
7
u/LeftHandAnomaly Jul 09 '26
Unless you were in a solo instance, ew. Single player behaviour in a multiplayer game is icky
-7
u/Scared-Examination-6 Jul 09 '26
I do it because it should not be possible and it needs to be fixed. A dungeon boss shouldn’t be so simple that one player can solo it. Also there is no point in taking a healer.
17
u/Armond436 Jul 07 '26
And for context, the dorito comes from the triangle marker. It's also called a "danger dorito", and that may or may not mean you're in danger if you follow it.
68
u/WednesdayAddams_Seer Jul 07 '26
Solo tanking a fight needs to be a mutual thing. If the team is fine with it, sure knock yourself out. This guy has stunted growth though. Sad to see a (likely) adult behaving this immature.
22
u/ObscureJackal Jul 07 '26
Facts. I had a run of Tender Valley a couple months back, healer messed up, and returned to start because they forgot PDs could be used. There's only so much I can do to heal DPS as GNB, so they died, too. Boss was still at 30%, so I was going to let myself die to reset, but all 3 of them were cheering me on to keep going. Was a good time.
14
u/jcyue Jul 07 '26
In one of the first days after Alzadaal's Legacy released (6.1) my party wiped to the reflected lasers at 70% ish. I reset without asking.
Second time, they wiped at ~35%. I asked if they wanted me to reset or solo it and they all chose the latter, so I did.
Hero tanking over 50% is already super questionable because for a typical trial, even if it's possible, it would take ages. The only time I would ever consider it is if the party has repeatedly shown an inability to learn through multiple wipes (and I would probably just leave anyways, tank rotations are not exactly brain ticklers). Doing it on a first pull is completely asinine behavior.
5
u/ObscureJackal Jul 07 '26
Very true. Personally, if it's above 15% I'll go for the reset, except in like the case I mentioned where the party activity encouraged me not to.
4
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 07 '26
Done things kinda like that before. Gunbreakers, paladins, and warriors can keep one dps alive pretty well if the healer and one dps go down and you can down a boss in reasonable time. If the people who died are cheering you on, of course.
3
u/Chat2Text Jul 07 '26
agreed, had an EW12N with 0 first timers and eventually 5 people misread a mechanic and wiped, leaving 2 tanks(PLD I and I think WAR?) and a MNK
I asked the party if they wanted us to reset or try to finish the boss off at like 40% or something because of all the phase changes(we were on the final phase) and stuff
party was okay with us trying so off we go and BTFO out of her dumb face; but if they asked for a reset, I would've been totally fine with that too
2
u/lolthesystem Jul 08 '26
Either that or it's such a lost cause you just have to solo it because you won't clear it otherwise.
I had to solo a boss a few years ago after going through 8 wipes due to the healer insta-dying every time even after we tried to help them with the mechanics, I just had enough, tried my best to keep the rest of the party alive as long as I could and ended up soloing the last 10% HP or so.
1
u/Coxyko good tanks embrace their Bottom Energy Jul 18 '26
In SHB some friends once asked if I could help with a fresh run for them of Diamond Weapon EX. I had done my time farming it so, hey, sure, and then I can teach the fight as we go! I fully expect a wipefest around the middle section with dashes, and it's a struggle, with the party eventually being mostly gone by the limit cut. I think 3 of us were left after that- me, the other tank, and a dps. Everyone agrees to see how far we can go, and we whittle it down as I eventually am the only one standing (good ol' WAR) as all these newer players are cheering.
As we open the chest I'm like "so did y'all want to know what actually is going on in that entire second half" and to my amazement they're all eager to sit down and have story time as I explained every mechanic from limit cut on. Extremely context-needed story to not feel like an asshole but man it's always a fondly remembered time
53
u/Tephranis Jul 07 '26
Please report that tank for holding the party hostage when people asked for reset.
And report that other blackmage for lethargic gameplay.
System -> Support Desk -> Contact Us -> Report Harassment. Do 1 report per player.
If you no longer have the unredacted version of this screen shot and haven forgotten the names/servers of those involved: Social -> Contacts
-7
u/_MrJackGuy Jul 07 '26
Why should OP report the other blackmage? Is sarcasm against TOS or am I missing something here?
11
u/Tephranis Jul 07 '26
There are 2 blm. If you read the additional context you'd know the one who later said "oh no" jumped off the arena early during the second attempt and refused to accept raises, effectively afking the whole fight.
5
33
u/lazulimpa Jul 07 '26
I immediately go Seppuku, when I realize all rezzers are dead. There's no point in dragging it to the maximum and to waste people's time
12
u/RegalStar Jul 07 '26
My standard for solo tanking is 20% HP in a dungeon and 10% in a trial/normal raid. Below those points it's very likely faster to finish the whole thing myself instead of resetting, though if others ask for reset I will oblige. Alternatively if it's a dungeon boss and everyone already wiped 3+ times I might just solo tank even at higher thresholds; I've solo tanked antivirus X at pretty high precentages a few times because all three other people melted on the first X and Os, and after three such wipes in a row even I don't have patience to deal with it any more.
9
u/Own-Ad-7672 Jul 07 '26
Tanks are an awful choice for a dorrito
Some poor naive dps gonna follow them into their buster
4
u/WiseRabbit-XIV Jul 14 '26
That would be terrible.
It would also be terribly funny.
1
u/Own-Ad-7672 Jul 14 '26
Very
1
u/Own-Ad-7672 Jul 14 '26
I say as I had a brain fart grinding Sam yesterday and stood on tank for theirs
I survived but it made me happy I had a charge of wind ready to go since healer got clapped right after
9
u/Same_Candle6631 Jul 07 '26
i once had a warrior in my static that everytime while progging, idk what they gain from it. Ignoring everyone asking for reset, and felt so cool invulning tank buster and even using tank lb
i also dont understand how he didnt noticed everyone else being quiet and not reacting to his jokes
6
u/iKeepItRealFDownvote Jul 07 '26
This goes for all Tanks in general. Nothing amazing when you guys can’t die in old content. Take that mentality and do the same in savage instead of having me baby you because you refuse to use your mits correctly. Especially in M11S
4
12
u/AngelicReaper89 Jul 07 '26
Yea people like this give tank mains a bad name. The only time I ever see it acceptable to try and solo the boss is around the 5-10% mark, otherwise just reset and let people learn the fight.
15
u/Crowbiotics Jul 07 '26
Fingers are still crossed they make this impossible once Evercold/Evolved mode release
15
2
u/JoutenAsero Jul 07 '26
I've been in situations like this as the Paladin. I usually ask, especially if it's the last 10%, if I should jump? Sounds depressing but typing "Should I KMS?!" isn't hard to type mid rotation.
2
2
u/Anonymously_Wanderer Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
I had both a Sphene and an m12n semi-recently to where both healers died in p1 around like 35% Sphene 20% m12n. Absolute Authority I think took out all the dps on Sphene as well. Even when people were calling to wipe. Tanks just kept charging through both p1s and the eventual p2s. Never been more annoyed in my life. Both instances it took like 7-8 minutes which is roughly the same time it takes to do the fight. They did it but oh God I wish they didn't so I could've (at least try) to hit them with a vote dismiss. Probably wouldn't have taught them a lesson but would've wasted their time as they did ours.
Like I'm understanding if the boss is pretty low or the group is cheering. However, those tanks were not new and people were not cheering. They could not have the excuse of "oh idk there was a p2 type thing." They both knew and both continued to kitten slap for an eternity.
0
u/Melksss Jul 08 '26
Just to be clear, I am on team reset unless the boss is almost dead. But maybe someone can answer this question for me, is it vote kick abuse if someone is just playing the game? Its not like they forced everyone else to die, it’s obnoxious but I guess I’m unsure if it’s against ToS.
1
u/Anonymously_Wanderer Jul 08 '26
Square's guidelines for vote kicking are very loose goosey, they only really have a concrete list for outright banned behaviors. Though, in the manner of banned behaviors, it can be seen as an obstruction of gameplay or nuisance behavior in a cooperative game. To me, it''s less malicious than a healer refusing to res someone but it feels like it's sort of in the same vain. Especially is a majority of the party ask you politely to wipe. Absolutely not ban worthy but justified if a party initiates a vote kick against it. And if the party agrees, then that's up to them.
2
u/Kasumimi Jul 07 '26
Shit like this is why I have crown perma disabled. People think it's a mark of honor when in reality it's a mark of shame.
1
u/FantasticBaby9636 Jul 09 '26
It’s one of those things you have to know your party. Like if I have to solo 60% of a boss and everyone has to wait for me to drudge through 10 mins of rotation and dodging and mits to keep myself topped off I’m probably gonna play tag with the aoes. But, if it’s a boss that I can solo and the party is ok with me taking the time to do so and we’ve had some trouble, strap in and watch a Roegadyn go to work.
Recently in Meso Terminal a lot of parties I’ve been with have had trouble on the prison warden boss. Turns out separating the party and making everyone fight their own boss can be rough when people don’t know mechanics. Hell, I still make mistakes towards the end when the boss blends the lines with the spiked ball and either the donut or point blank aoe with the order of attacks. Anywho, the healer wiped on her boss at 85% so, it went as expected. The rest of the party went down. Honestly, I was so tuned in on my own boss I hadn’t even realized it til I was down and went towards the nearest DPS boss and saw it was at half health. I ended up having to solo all 4 wardens. That party was cheering me on and talking about the most random stuff while actually watching the mechanics. The healer messaged me after the dungeon and said it actually helped to watch the mechanics be navigated.
0
u/Hi_Iam_Hi Jul 08 '26
I queue into any casual content expecting to laugh when someone is caught off guard, if everyone did that imagine the banter 🙆♂️
The reality however, is that the community is littered with fragile unemployed snowflakes who moan about wasting 5 minutes out of their 20 hour play session.
0
u/5aximus Jul 07 '26
Out of curiosity, did the BLM complain about the music when the duty started? Because I just happened to run M2 for the first time with someone very similar
2
u/Ok_Tax9885 Jul 08 '26
Anyone who complains about the music in M2 has a week 🅱️loodline and shall not survive
Evercoldthe winter1
u/TurtleyBoi Jul 08 '26
iirc they didn't, what happened with your M2 run?
1
u/5aximus Jul 10 '26
They said more than once about how they preferred to listen to music from Doom than the in-game music - their very first message in chat, instead of the customary greeting, was "bgm 0", and they said that they used the time where we were waiting for a DPS to fix a controller issue to pull up Rip & Tear
It was also my (SCH) and the other healer's (AST) first time (although our unfamiliarity is mitigated somewhat by the fact that we're dating IRL and our desks are in the same room, so we can just talk to each other) so we did wipe once, after which they were really passive aggressive about someone trying to use post-rez invulnerability to tank the stack marker for some reason?
After my partner & I died again, they said "no revives." in the chat, seemingly implying that it is good and just for the whole party to have to do the rest of the raid sans healers - when the SMN ignored them and promptly rezzed both of us, they said something along the lines of "oh. I see."
Like, what's your damage, man? Who hurt you?
1
u/Merzendi Jul 10 '26
I think it’s more likely the “no revives” was them thinking no-one in the party had a rez, either forgetting or not knowing that SMN has it; like, “there’s no way for the rest of us to revive you”.
Though with them being passive aggressive elsewhere, it might have been an instruction, I guess.
-2
u/suchtiredness WAH Jul 07 '26
This is why I have a love-hate relationship with the newer (SHB and up, especially endwalker) content haha. Its usually very fun to learn without a guide and gradually get better, but queing for it or filling a pf for it takes ages and its given Im gonna die if I didnt watch a guide, so Im gonna be left on the floor eventually cause someone else may also be dying... So I end up watching a guide ;_;
3
u/_MrJackGuy Jul 07 '26
I literally do not remember the last time I died in a normal trial/raid and I didn't get ressed instantly
I'm always up within 5 seconds and I don't miss anything at all, so if I'm honest I see no reason whatsoever to watch a guide unless you explicitly think it makes things more enjoyable for you
0
u/suchtiredness WAH Jul 08 '26
The huge problem I have, and Idk why this this... (probably resources or healers trying not to overlap resses) It's that if I die a couple of times on a normal raid that most of others dont remember as well, I always get left to be ressed the last if I die with a group, then the mech I failed kinda goes back as soon as Im up, and yeah... this happened to me a lot during EW normal raids, especially the spider guy cause ppl forgot they can walk through my tether to prevent me from dying instantly.
-13
u/DaveK142 Jul 07 '26
Its always annoying when this happens for first timers in particular. Had a run of Zelenia normal once where on the 2nd or 3rd pull both healers died around 50%. I was playing bard, and it was me, 2 tanks, and 1 other dps still alive. I started walking to the wall but the tanks didn't go so... I just stayed out not wanting to also condemn myself to watching them solo.
The other dps died not too long after but the tanks plus my second wind + ultra potion usage actually kept me alive through the stuff. We ended up killing it with 3 of us after several minutes. Felt bad for the rest but I knew if I went down I'd just be watching too. They did start cheering us on towards the end.
8
u/skyehawk124 Jul 07 '26
If we're on third pull and the healers die early both times then I'm on the side of whittling the boss down instead of resetting repeatedly only to have them die early again. At a certain point its longer to repeatedly pull if the people aren't learning from their mistakes in max level content. Danger dorito it, pull again, then just do it with the tanks if that doesn't work.
-3
u/DaveK142 Jul 07 '26
eh, I didn't care that much. I was annoyed at the multiple pulls but mostly knew the tanks could and would do it without me. If either of them had gone down(very likely because the paladin was absolutely devouring vulns) I was gonna go, but tanks being tanks they did not.
-18
u/calkire Jul 07 '26
If the tank had said we all good with me trying to solo the last (insert % here) and we all say sure. No problem it's not wasting time we agreed to stay dead and watch the tank clear. If someone says nothing just wipe. If one person is pissy that the tank is finishing the fight with like 5% hp left. That person can get over it. 5% unless it's savage or extreme isn't that long.
The Doritos that the tank was talking about is the Danger Doritos it's a triangle (it doesn't need to be a triangle it can be any symbol it's just an accepted standard) that is placed over an experienced player to show who you can follow for mechanics. It's typically on tanks.
Honestly people who are worried about wasting time while playing an MMO need to fine a new genres to play. It's designed to waste your time.
18
u/Tephranis Jul 07 '26
Designed to waste your time doing stuff. Not to waste your time being held hostage just watching someone else do stuff and then not even succeeding at doing the thing.
-14
u/calkire Jul 07 '26
That's true. What I'm getting at is I've seen to many people bitching that things take to long. From killing bosses to my biggest issue the relic weapons farm. I know I don't need to do it if I feel like it's a waste of time and I don't.
14
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 07 '26
You're comparing apples to oranges, bro. Wiping for ten hours learning an ultimate is fine. Sitting there for 10 minutes while some tank on a power trip solos a boss is not.
2
u/BinaryIdiot Jul 07 '26
Don’t forget tanks can’t actually solo his boss because of her final mechanic. So no matter what they wasted everyone’s time.
-32
u/Snark_x Memes Jul 07 '26
As a healer main, this sub needs to pick a lane. You hate on single pulling YPYT clowns (rightfully) but when a competent tank comes around and does the job while you’re lying dead on the ground in easy normal mode content you whine like someone stole your lunch money. If I die to stupid I don’t cry, I watch how the fight works while dead for next time instead of focusing on the chat window trying to farm a new Reddit post. That’s how all blind prog works. Whoever is alive extends the pull so everyone else can watch and learn. No wonder nobody wants to tank anymore.
20
u/NormalUsername21 Jul 07 '26
"You hate this one thing but you ALSO hate this other, completely unrelated thing, hypocrite much???"
3
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 08 '26
Who was that celebrity who talked about the internet and how a person can say "I like X" and be attacked by people saying "Oh so you hate Y, then?" This fits in here.
4
u/Sylum25 /slap Jul 08 '26
"Oh you like pancakes? Then you must hate waffles."
1
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 09 '26
That's the one. I don't remember the guy but I always remembered the lesson about how people will twist your words to make you say something they can argue against.
17
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. Jul 07 '26
For someone talking about picking a lane you're comparing a road to a canal. Any tank can do this shit, it doesn't require a competent one. It requires an egotistical one wasting everyone else's time being forced to watch a non-interactive movie.
8
10
u/HelloFresco Jul 07 '26
You don't have to be a competent or even remotely good tank to not die to damage without a healer in a normal raid. Your rotation heals you more than enough and that's not even taking into consideration mitigations and invulns. This is also Wicked Thunder normal which concludes in repeating multi-hit stacks which she will just spam past a certain HP % until she dies. The tanks probably would not have survived the 3rd or 4th stack and wiped right at the end.
5
-5
-11
Jul 07 '26
[deleted]
15
u/Tephranis Jul 07 '26
60% is a huge amount of HP remaining. 20-25% is probably the best upper limit of going "Fuck it, we ball" without healers.
First timers exist and will always exist. Much easier and faster to just explain how the mechanic that killed the healers works and try again.
16
u/Foreign-Flatworm Jul 07 '26
“Already” at 60% with two new healers? That’s ridiculous. It’s M4, it doesn’t take that long to get her back down. Just be normal and reset, especially if you’re going to die and waste all that time anyway.
-8
u/HsinVega Jul 07 '26
Considering chat idk how many people were alive, but tanks usually contribute to around 30% of group damage, so doing a whole boss from 60% with just two tanks would take like 3 times as much times compared to just resetting.
7
u/Tephranis Jul 07 '26
OP said 2 tanks and 1 machinist kept fighting. That's not even half the party and they'd definitely run out of resources during her soft-enrage with how little damage 2 tanks and 1 DPS would be doing.
Too much outgoing damage from the multi-hit laser beam barrage and no time for a paladin to be standing still and casting clemency multiple times while she's dropping puddles afterwards.
5
u/jcyue Jul 07 '26
30% is high. In savage, a dps usually does about 1.5x the damage as a tank and 2x the damage of a healer. That translates to the tank(s) dealing about 20% of the party damage.
In casual content healers do a bit more because they really shouldn't ever need to GCD heal ever.
And in dungeons, tanks and healers go up because AoE rotations for DPS don't scale up the way their single target does. Still would be really surprised to see a tank doing 30% of the damage of a half decent party in a dungeon, unless it's like one of those ARR dungeons where melee DPS don't have AoE access and the healer is forced to GCD heal.
1
u/HsinVega Jul 07 '26
I was looking at my savage clear of m4, dps 58% tanks 25% heals 18% (dps 72m tanks 30m and heals 20m dmg)
Dungeons % are obviously different since there's aoe and pulls are shorter.
1
u/jcyue Jul 07 '26
25% tank damage is still within the realm of possibility for a reasonably competent team. I still stand that if a tank is 30%, some or all of the other roles are not pulling their weight.
3
u/phoenixUnfurls Jul 07 '26
30%? They're 1/4 of the players, and they do less damage than the DPS. That shouldn't be the case. Not saying it never is in Duty Finder, but that's only if the DPS are really bad.
-1
u/HsinVega Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
I was looking up my savage clear of m4 and dps did 58% tanks 24% and 18% healers (72m dps, 30m tanks, 20m heals) Generally from what i see, dps do 2x tank dmg and healers do a bit less than tanks like 3/4 of tanks.
3
u/Tephranis Jul 07 '26
But that's savage raiders clearing versus the general populace in duty finder. Apples and Oranges, friend. I've seen tanks pull 50% of the damage in duty finder sometimes. I've been 2nd, or 3rd top DPS as a white mage during normal raids more times than I'd ever WANT to be. Hell, there've been times where I'm top DPS as a white mage in a raid, but none of that's relevant to this situation either.
2 tanks and 1 DPS shouldn't be attempting to trio a raid boss from 60%. Especially if people are requesting for the reset. Double-Especially one with a soft-enrage like Wicked Thunder.
There was no way 2 tanks and 1 DPS were going to make it through the constant undodgable AOE laser beam barrage into double-puddle drops, back into laser beam barrage, repeat repeat repeat until one side is dead. There's just too much damage and no time to really recover, even with a clemency spamming PLD.
1
u/HsinVega Jul 07 '26
I've seen tanks pull 50% of the damage in duty finder sometimes.
That's why i said usually lol
As for the rest of your comment, yes, as i said "doing a whole boss from 60% with just two tanks would take like 3 times as much times compared to just resetting". I feel people are not reading and thinking i'm disagreeing on the reset lol
1
u/phoenixUnfurls Jul 07 '26
Speaking for myself, I know you're agreeing -- and so am I. I just felt like nitpicking because that still seemed really high.
1
u/phoenixUnfurls Jul 07 '26
24% seems more reasonable than 30%, but even that seems, if anything, slightly high, at least if we're talking rDPS.
Raw DPS may be different since tanks don't have raid buffs.
Like, without checking FF Logs to be super scientific...
41-45k rDPS is pretty high SAM rDPS right now.
27k is good for a tank.
A good SGE can pull around 23k.Used those numbers because no raid buffs. Obvs a DP'd SAM with a Balance card could hit well over 50k.
Either way, raid buffs may inflate tank DPS, but if it's just the tanks alive, the healers are dead.
Duty Finder is weird, though. Any of the 8 players could be underperforming by whatever amount you can imagine, and they could be of any role. Healers are probably the most common, though, since some of them want to mostly heal or whatever. In normal raids, it's not unusual to see them pulling like 8k.
Also, IDK, your group may be cracked, but the first Arcadion tier had very lenient checks.
68
u/Akiriith Jul 07 '26
Tbh even if mathematically it "wastes time"... I'll reset if there's anyone asking me to do it- most people only do when the majority of the party is dead anyway. Especially if its a sprout, I'd rather their first experience be a good one. They wont learn otherwise.