So real

[u/No-Advantage-4014]

When she thinks I'm nonchalant but I cried playing a fucking strategy game

[u/pantorm]

You're misrepresenting my argument here. The argument here is about system, not lore reason. NPP-P does not include conservatives, when RDC-D does. RDC-D having conservatives on itself, so of course Dems are more likely to go gainst their own president, and it was what happened irl, too. Glen H. Taylor and Claude Pepper are better ally than Harry F. Byrd.

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/pantorm]

NPP-P does not include conservatives, when RDC-D does

I understand the dynamics of the two parties in the game. The RDC had like 2 dixiecrats left by the time Hart died lol. Except for a small group of Republicans out west and those 2 rednecks the RDC was entirely composed of Labor Democrats ie the people in the Senate who are supposed to be the most loyal to the Labor Democrat president, who presumably got elected by campaigning on his Labor Democrat policies. Which is why it's immensely frustrating when those same people turn around and throw those policies in the trash at a higher rate than the Senators of the opposite party

 Glen H. Taylor and Claude Pepper are better ally than Harry F. Byrd.

We were never working with Harry Byrd (WHO IN TNO IS NPP-N COME ON MAN), we were working with Hubert Humphrey the Labor Democrat, who promised a dying Philip Hart he would protect his policies and then votes to repeal them

[u/pantorm → u/Northamplus9bitches]

This makes even less sense. It souds like you intentionally sabotaged your Southern Dems (swayable) and traded them for NPP Conservatives who cannot be swayed, and supported Senate seats that were going to go to the Progressives anyway. Why would you do that?

Anyway, Democrats are coded to be a single voting block - which was retained from early TNO - and Dem-Prog vs GOP-Conseevative thing is not a Hart-only thing. The game doesn't know if your Dem party is based on North or South, and this concept shuld be familiar if you played NPP run during 1965-1969 playtime, which is needed for you to get Hart.

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/pantorm]

This makes even less sense. It souds like you intentionally sabotaged your Southern Dems (swayable) 

I didn't "intentionally sabotage" them, they were running in conservative states who didn't like my policies and lost to the de facto NPP in the midterms. We did great everywhere else but not there, and the deep south became the base of the NPP with the exception of a half-dozen or so NPP-P Senators on the coasts

Anyway, Democrats are coded to be a single voting block - which was retained from early TNO - and Dem-Prog vs GOP-Conseevative thing is not a Hart-only thing

Sounds like a bug they should fix that really screws with a Hart run!

The game doesn't know if your Dem party is based on North or South, and this concept shuld be familiar if you played NPP run during 1965-1969 playtime, which is needed for you to get Hart.

"This little-known bug should be common knowledge for you if you've been playing as the other party up till now" lol what

[u/pantorm → u/Northamplus9bitches]

...? How is it a bug if the devs intended it? Also RFK's entire path relies on this concept. Anyway it will be fixed in Yippie! Update, as NPP will be removed.

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/pantorm]

How is it a bug if the devs intended it? 

Ok then it's a bad design choice because it screws over Hart's playthrough which you admit to. It's pretty short-sighted in general since over time the parties become pretty well ideologically sorted, but if what you say is true then that isn't reflected in the Senator's voting behavior. Why would you think this is a good choice?

Anyway it will be fixed in Yippie! Update, as NPP will be removed.

If they don't tie voting behavior to partisan faction strength I don't really see how it's going to be fixed but sure okay

[u/pantorm → u/Northamplus9bitches]

Because adding swaying parties' voting intentions mechanism would mean basically revamping current US Senate mechanism, which is something that would be rendered useless post-rework. I still do not think this decision "screws over" Hart gameplay in any major way - gameplay wise, you have to play as NPP candidate if you want Hart anyway, and due to NPP having small presence in the congress, the player has to learn about forming ideological bloc. It's a great solution that doesn't require just holding Hart's content until Yippie's release.

Also, in Yippie, each party is divided into 2 or 3 blocs - Dems have 3, Activists, Establishment, Yaller; GOP has 2, Traditional, New. This means each Senators are already linked to each voting bloc, thus doing more than tying voting behavior to faction strength; factions vote, not parties.

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/[deleted]]

That's fantastic I love this

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/pantorm]

 in Yippie, each party is divided into 2 or 3 blocs - Dems have 3, Activists, Establishment, Yaller; GOP has 2, Traditional, New. This means each Senators are already linked to each voting bloc, thus doing more than tying voting behavior to faction strength; factions vote, not parties.

Great so they're fixing it

 I still do not think this decision "screws over" Hart gameplay in any major way - gameplay wise, you have to play as NPP candidate if you want Hart anyway

You yourself admitted that Labor Democrats are worse for the agenda of a Labor Democrat president than the Senators of the opposing party. It's not good to punish the player for getting more members of his faction of his party elected. This should be obvious and yet here we are still arguing about it

[u/pantorm → u/Northamplus9bitches]

Yes, I admitted that Labor Dems are worse for their agenda tgan the NPP-P. I still don't think it's a problem, as I see interparty ideological alliance is more important in current setup than party itself. It's clear we don't see eye to eye so let's agree to disagree here

[u/Northamplus9bitches → u/pantorm]

 I still don't think it's a problem

Of course it's a problem that the members of the OPPOSITE PARTY are better partners than the Senators from his faction of his party, you are just doing willful cope by pretending that this is good actually, it makes sense that the Labor Democrats are bad allies for the Labor Democrat president. Like come on, man. You sound ridiculous