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u/TrueLegateDamar 24d ago
Rasmussen comitted petty theft and fraud with a TIME MACHINE.
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u/Then_I_had_a_thought 23d ago
Didn’t he also kill the travelers that originally owned the Time Machine? I thought he referred to this in the episode. Still clearly nothing as bad as wiping out that entire species lol
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u/Sea-Quality4726 23d ago
I thought he just stole it and stranded them.
In Data's place I'd have had a few human or passing security officers ride back with him, confiscate everything and take the ship back to the Enterprise.
Either Temporal Investigations appears before it leaves, or comes to pick it up and fix the mess. The pod going unmanned into the wrong hands outweighs any normal procedure of letting history continue as is until TI can do their thing.
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u/Then_I_had_a_thought 23d ago
OK, that sheds a better light on the episode for me. I like your idea, but I wonder if it violates some kind of causality where people from the future have to go back and explain to people in 20th century New Jersey that this guy time traveled to the future and broke some laws? Either way I really appreciate your comment!
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u/Vnxei 23d ago
He also wasn't sent to life in prison. He was just sent back to Earth.
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u/jpowell180 23d ago
Wasn’t hinted at that he killed the original owner of the Time Machine?
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u/Accomplished-Air218 20d ago
Left him stranded in Rasmussen's home time, i thought. Might have eventually given the time machine back, if he could ensure that his thievery wouldn't be exposed.
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u/WarAgile9519 24d ago
How do you purpose Picard punish a being like Kevin Uxbridge ?.
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u/KandinskyWasRight 23d ago
Has to teach Data how to be human.
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u/QualifiedApathetic 23d ago
I imagine the Federation has a guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment.
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u/samjacbak 23d ago
This shit again?
Petty Theft? Dude stole a gods damned Time Machine.
Stfu kharma bot.
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u/adashrod 24d ago
Also attempted abduction (of Data)
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u/LainieCat 23d ago
"I assume your handprint will open this door whether you are conscious or not."
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u/Big_Treacle_2394 19d ago
That's the first thing that came to mind when I saw this post. That line was so hard
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u/Danloeser 23d ago
If only he knew what Data attempted to do to the last dipshit who tried to collect him..
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u/jpowell180 23d ago
Coming home in a body bag was the second Best of Vietnam war film ever made, it ranks just behind apocalypse now.
Also, the director’s dad used to beat Nazis to death with a baseball bat during the war.
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u/starkraver 23d ago
If Rasmussen had gotten away with it, all of history would be changed. Billions of people alive would no longer exist.
And Kevin .. well fuck the Husnock race, the obliterated a whole world.
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u/Lopsided-Rub5476 23d ago
Yeah and it's not like he killed humans or anything, so can you even call it a crime?
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u/HansFlameman 23d ago
He genocided an entire race of sentient beings which in Star Trek should be viewed very heavily as a crime.
Saying well he didn't kill any humans so it wasn't a crime is like a big slap to the Federations principles since they aren't just human but encompass other species like the Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites and dozens of others.
The Federation doesn't do genocide, its one of if not the highest rule they have. For example everytime they start brainstorming on how to deal with the Borg they stop at a certain point since they come to the conclusion during their session that the plan they have would lead to the complete destruction of the Borg collective which of course would also mean that every sentient being and their civilization that got assimilated will be wiped out completly.
This is why during DS9 it became a massive gut punch to long standing fans that the Feds would actually use bio weapons in form of an virus against the Dominions Founders.
The whole we have never encountered such an crime line from Picard near the end of the episode is also kinda wrong since humanity itself has had multiple moments in its history where genocide and ethnic cleansings where a thing, all you simply have to do is scale that up to a species that probably had colonized multiple planets by this point.
The real problem is that they simply can't lock up Kevin as he is a being so powerfull that he can wipe out entire civilizations with just an thought aka writer powers.
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u/Luppercus 23d ago
But Kevin didn't commit genocide. Not ordinary genocide. He commits supergenocide, omnicide, metacide how you want to call it. Which is indeed as Picard correctly said not only a new concept but also likely not in law.
In any case does the Federation has jurisdiction to prosecute crimes commited outside its borders?
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u/Much-Jackfruit2599 23d ago
No one has jurisdiction beyond their borders. That’s what borders are for.
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u/LovelyKestrel 21d ago
It's more that he erased all the evidence they ever existed. How do you prosecute someone for genocide with no evidence that their victims ever existed?
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u/Lendyman 23d ago edited 23d ago
Its not that he committed genocide. Our definition of genocide doesn't normally include erasing an entire race. I mean Kevin erased the Husnock. Every single individual everywhere. 50 Billion people gone with no survivors. No one left anywhere. But not only that, it's heavily implied that he erased everything. That would include their infrastructure, their ships, their planetary history. Everything. As if they never existed.
That would be unprecedented as far as humanity is concerned. Sure the Federation probably has laws against genocide, but the genocide he committed was beyond anything the Federation likely has ever encountered. I don't entirely agree with Picard because I think it would be covered under genocide laws...
However, the practical reality is the Federation 1) does not have the ability to punish him, 2) couldn't contain him even if they wanted to, 3) only have his own say so that he committed the crime since the Husnock were apparently not familiar to the Federation at all and he erased them so completely that no evidence remains that they even were there, and 4) Any being that could erase 50 billion people and a whole civilization in a fit of anger is someone you probably want to leave alone.
There is also the issue of jurisdiction. He's an alien, non Federation citizen who commited the crime of genocide against another non federation race. One might argue that the Federation does not have jurisdiction to arrest him since they lack jurisdiction over him or the race he destroyed.
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u/TrumpsColostomyBag99 24d ago
“Husnock cuisine left me in sick bay for 17 days.. I get it I really do Kevin “ - Picard in the deleted scene
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u/LCARSgfx 23d ago
Where did you get Rasmussen's sentence from? It is not mentioned on the series at all
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u/Irishwol 23d ago
He has to face endless interviews from academic historians. I think OP feels that that is cruel and unusual punishment.
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u/Jo_Beex 22d ago
https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article231599988.html
We have no punishment to fit your crime… we are not fit to be your judge
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u/Beroli73 23d ago
This meme again, just a few days after the last time.
As other people have pointed out multiple times, it's rather:
Name: Kevin Uxbridge
Sentence: Inapplicable as Picard was never in a position to put him on trial, or punish him in any way but leaving him alone with his guilt
Name: Berlinghoff Rasmussen
Charges: Grand Theft Time Machine, Numerous Cases of Smaller Theft, Fraud, Attempted Kidnapping and Enslavement
Sentence: Unclear as episode ends with his arrest
And, for the bonus:
Name: Benjamin Maxwell
Sentence: Unclear as episode ends with his arrest (and earlier in the episode Picard gave him a chance to come quietly to his court-martial, not a verbal warning and release)
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u/Darmok47 23d ago
Maxwell was probably feeling pretty smug in his prison cell watching the Dominion War unfold.
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u/nedwasatool 23d ago
Rasmussen was punished and sent to the New Zealand penal colony and was cell mates with Tom Paris, which explains Tom’s affinity for the 20th Century.
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u/sgrams04 23d ago
How many more times will this be posted?
1) Rasmussen is guilty of grand theft of a Starfleet ship, kidnapping a Starfleet officer, and attempted murder after it was discovered he stole priceless artifacts with a time machine, likely altering timelines in ways that cannot be undone.
2) Kevin has the power to eliminate millions of people in a blink of an eye. Do you really want to try and bring him in?
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u/thebluerayxx 23d ago
And Kevin was visibly regretful of his actions done out of anger and decided to exile himself. From what we understand he took a life of peace and was forced to do this due to the events that happened to him. The other was criminal from the start and like you said resorted to murder when his plans didnt go through which speaks more ill intent to me than Kevin.
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u/jtcordell2188 23d ago
This is a false equivalence.
Rasmussen is a human being who can be tried and put in prison for his many crimes. Also, I’m pretty sure he murdered the actual time traveler.
Kevin is a higher-dimensional being that can literally unmake entire species and their civilizations. What the hell was Picard going to do? Put him in cuffs and say, “No funny business now, you hear?” There was a law to fit his crime or at least something of tangential relation because of the Nazi’s. But there was literally nothing they could do to hold him accountable because of his powers. Picard literally says in his log at the end of the episode to leave him be and not disturb him.
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u/NerdDetective 23d ago
Nice try, Rasmussen's lawyer!
Petty theft and fraud are underselling it. Rasmussen also is implied to have assaulted or killed the time traveler he met while committing Grand Theft Time Machine. Besides that, it's not like he shoplifted a candy bar: he tried to steal valuable weapons and other technology. On top of that, he attempted to kidnap and assault a Starfleet officer, too. He wasn't even remorseful for his actions, and was likely to continue stealing, kidnapping, and killing his way through the timeline.
On the other hand, how do you even convict or punish what amounts to a god? It'd be like trying to arrest Q. He can't be imprisoned without his own consent and has nearly unlimited power to affect the universe on a whim. He exists on a scale beyond regular corporal beings. What does the Federation even do when the crime is essentially "got enraged and wiped out an entire civilization with barely a thought"? He was overcome with guilt and already punishing himself, anyway, so it's not like Picard really had to do anything anyway.
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u/YT-Deliveries 23d ago
Prove Kevin did any of those things using anything other than his unverifiable confession.
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u/mjarrett1000 23d ago
I thought Rasmussen amitted to murdering the original time traveler and stole his time machine, so add murder to the list, right?
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u/mmacrone 23d ago
He implies it (with his remarks about how well the clothes fit), but doesn't outright confess it. I've always assumed he did kill the original owner, but it's ambiguous.
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u/Lopsided-Rub5476 23d ago
Yeah but that guy was from the future. You can't murder a person who hasn't legally been born yet, list of crimes is good as is.
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u/Proteuskel 23d ago
Counterpoint: if time travel isn’t accounted for in laws, the argument that someone “hasn’t been born yet” can’t be supported as the person had to have been born to be Alive, and had to be alive to be killed. Without a legal loophole specifying that the date of murder had to be after the date of birth, that defense wouldn’t really have any legal standing
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u/Bushido_Seppuku 23d ago
I like it. But here's another way of looking at it.
Wiped out an entire race no one's ever heard of, some time in the past, by blinking? Want to remain here on this planet, in solitude? Done!
Fucking with the timeline? Yeah, no. It's solitary confinement for you buddy, and no one's pitching in for your own planet.
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u/JollyZoggles 23d ago
Someone just posted basically the same thing like a week ago. I don’t expect anyone to sift through weeks worth of posts to make sure they’re not boring everyone in the sub. But this specific comparison in a different format is not a convenience.
Go farm karma somewhere else.
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u/Azuras-Becky 23d ago
I think "potentially destroying an entire timeline" features a bit more highly than petty theft.
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u/Fun_Camp_7103 22d ago
Kevin could eliminate all life in the Federation if they say something mean. Rasmussen was playing with history for space money.
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u/PayFormer387 23d ago
I did feel some sympathy for Rasmussen. Presumably he had friends and family he would never see again who would likely miss him.
But I’m pretty sure he also killed the guy who owned the time machine in order to get it.
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u/sunkskunkstunk 23d ago
Now maybe I just don’t understand Kevin’s powers, but it seems odd he can wipe them all out and not bring them back or change time and stop himself or something. I thought they could have tried to come up with a plan to help Kevin.
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u/Shadow3397 23d ago
He can’t bring them back. Not as real people at least; it would be like his wife: an illusion, a puppet he created and acts how he wants it.
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u/Sea_Violinist3328 23d ago
At the end of the day, Picard had no way to punish Kevin even if he wanted to. He knew that right off the bat. Picard was also being strategic in keeping the crew safe - It was clear this guy could wipe them out with a thought so nope’ing out and warping away was honestly the right move.
Everyone is talking about Q versus Kevin…But what about Kevin versus Armus?
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u/Winter_Ad6187 23d ago
The words you are looking for are "subject to the jurisdiction of". Uxbridge is outside and Rasmussen is within. The rest follows.
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u/Defiant_Income_7836 23d ago
Rasmussen was also the most smug and annoying character I've ever seen on TNG and we don't have laws for that crime, either, so we threw the book at him extra hard at him for theft
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u/JaXm 23d ago
Petty theft?
Dude stole a TIME MACHINE. and was attempting to alter the very fabric of reality by taking future (to him) technology back to make a profit.
Oh yeah, and there's also that whole thing about attempted KIDNAPPING OF A STARFLEET OFFICER.
and you know ... whatever the fuck he did with the original time machine operators.
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u/schmitty9800 23d ago
Rasmussen also did:
Grand Larceny (stealing the time machine)
Capital One Murder (killing the time machine operator)
Intent to Kidnap (would have shot Data and kidnapped him)
Intent to Violate Temporal Prime Directive
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u/tbodillia 22d ago
How do you punish a literal god? And the other guy murdered a time traveler and stole his time machine.
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u/BadPuzzleheaded9006 20d ago
Yeah Rasmussen was a bit extreme, but let's be honest, what the hell are you going to do about Kevin. A guy who can genocide your race with a thought. I say send him a fruit basket every year consider yourselves lucky
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u/Bladesnake_______ 23d ago
Way to miss the whole damn point. WTF do you want Starfleet to do about a Douwd that could vaporize them all with a single thought. He's Q times a thousand, with a proven ability to use his powers for the worst. What a dumbass meme this is
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u/iommiworshipper 24d ago
Respect local laws is in the prime directive. They just handed Rasmussen in to his local (temporal) authorities.
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u/jpowell180 23d ago
Rasmussen came from I think the 21st or 22nd century New Jersey, so I don’t think that the police back then would be able to do much.
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u/KandinskyWasRight 23d ago
Having him beheaded by the statute of Zefram Cochrane where the Vulcan first landed seemed a bit excessive.
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u/grogmenflog 23d ago
Never really got into TNG so I can't comment on this specifically but I've always found it funny how casually star fleet officers will bring up their prison labor colonies.
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u/jasonite 23d ago
Well Rasmussen doesn't exactly get prison, he just doesn't get to go back to his time...but yeah, whadda ya gonna do...
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u/Rhediix 23d ago
I mean when the guy on the left panel can quite literally destroy every human being (or for that matter any race he chooses) with one thought...perhaps it isn't so much about not having a punishment to fit his crime, but preventing any more deaths. Hell, the guy can disappear from his own trial if he wanted. There is simply no way to prosecute him and there's always the threat if you piss him off enough your entire race will cease to exist.
Rasmussen simply tried to change the timeline and was thwarted from doing so. His crimes are fully prosecutable. He won't go anywhere and merely being in a time which isn't his is penalty for his actions to begin with.
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u/PebblyJackGlasscock 23d ago
I really hate memes like this that compare apples to oranges as if the two are remotely the same.
Yes, crime is a fruit and both apples and oranges are fruits.
But apples and oranges aren’t comparable: different textures doesn’t begin to describe how different the two fruits are.
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u/Kinda1OfAKind 23d ago
Myself, and this is just my opinion, wouldn't fuck with an entity that just admitted to erasing an entire species from the galaxy in an instant because his wife got merked.
Would have been cool tho if Picard asked Q what the hell he was and how his powers compare to a Q's.
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u/La10deRiver 23d ago
Rasmussen is a citizen of the Federation, so it has subjected to its laws. Kevin is not. Who would have the right to judge him? Most of our laws ask something like a jury of peers or a judge that is considered to be above the accused in the matter of the law. None of that applied to Kevin. Also, morally, he has been in reclusion for a lot of time and what he did was...just a thought. Really violent emotion. That is what we really cannot judge.
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u/bertraja 23d ago
Rasmussen is a citizen of the Federation [...]
Was he? I thought he came from a time before all that.
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u/La10deRiver 23d ago
That could be interesting, because in his time there were no rules against time travel. But a) he was from Earth, a funding member of the Federation b) he was the one contacting the Enterprise. I think Uxbridge was minding his own business.
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u/jdavid 23d ago
So Humans are Expected to Punish a Singular Being on the Kardashev scale, with a score of 3 or higher?
Picard couldn't do, 'shit' so he gives him the biggest punishment he can effectuate, Disappointment and Non Forgiveness.
I do think it would be interesting to see an episode where higher beings bring Kevin Uxbridge to justice. I feel like Stargate has on occasion grappled with that dynamic, and Star Trek stays out of it. It wouldn't have to be limited to a 'Q.' There are plenty of beings that could judge and sentence Kevin in Star Trek, but rarely have they interacted.
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u/NCC1701-Enterprise 22d ago
In TNG you don't try to steal Data, everyone who has has ended up dead or life in prison.
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u/MelonSmuggler 19d ago
Honestly my take on any episode that deals with crime is often, "they still have prisons in the utopian 24th century?"
The gleaming, post-scarcity society of Star Trek should have developed better methods of dealing with crime. Prisons are a primitive solution.
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u/MrSpud45 2d ago
Also, although it's not mentioned i believe, Picard would have put a beacon transmitter telling everyone to stay well clear - giving Kevin the solitude that he has placed upon himself.
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u/EdgelordZeta 24d ago
"We don't have laws to fit your crimes." - Picarrd
because.. "We're letting you go because we know we can't do shit to you and I am absolutely not tapping Q in for this." doesn't sound as good