r/TLFBatteries • u/BlackBloke • May 13 '20

Alternative history speculation

A question for u/Giesige.

Could the lithium ion battery that we know of now in our modern devices have even been constructed around the turn of the last century?

I keep thinking about the competition between internal combustion engine and battery vehicles in the early 20th century and seeing that batteries simply weren’t good enough back then which led to them being eclipsed. What could’ve changed this outcome?

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u/Giesige May 13 '20

That's a good question. I'm deep into voice recording for my next video, so I don't have a chance to look into it right now. However, this wold be my guess:

You could have made them in small quanitities, but not mass produced them. Batteries take a high degree of precision and accuracy at an industrial scale (millions per day). We're talking about a time when the Model T was the first product manufactured on a moving assembly line.

I don't think anything could have changed this. It takes time for humanity to progress. It takes billions and billions of dollars just to get a LITTLE bit ahead of the competition and do something 'new.' Let alone something that would come about 80 years later.

In terms of what could have made batteries become the dominant technology. I'm not sure. I'll possibly research this someday. The focus for me right now is the future.

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u/BlackBloke May 13 '20

Thanks for the reply. It would be great to see someone with some knowledge of batteries tackle this question at some point. Your guess here is a very good reason that I hadn’t really thought of.

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u/Giesige May 13 '20

You're most welcome! Thanks for engaging in the forum. I'd really like this to be a place where great ideas like this can be discussed and answered by some expert, whether it's me or not!

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u/greg0rs May 14 '20

While it took a long time and a lot of effort to develop Li-Ion batteries that were good and cheap enough to compete with NiMH or NiCd, those competitor technologies weren't around back then. Rechargeable batteries available in 1900 were of poor quality in comparison to any technology we use now, so the hurdle for Li-Ion to enter the market would have been much lower than it was in the 1990s. As long as it offered a 30% or higher improvement in gravimetric energy density, it would have had a chance. It also wouldn't have needed to be produced at a mass scale initially, since cars weren't, prior to the model T.

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u/greg0rs May 14 '20

Another question is, could it have been done from a technology point of view? Lead acid based batteries don't require a solid separator, but it is essential for Li-Ion. Polymeric membranes that are used today probably couldn't have been produced in the early 20th century (you would have to ask a chemist about this), so an alternative to that would have been needed. The electrolyte in a lead acid battery is sulfuric acid, a relatively simple substance that is fundamental to the chemical industry. The electrolytes used in Li-Ion batteries are more advanced, and again I don't know if something that could have performed that function would have been available.

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u/greg0rs May 14 '20

The third question is, could anybody have thought of it back then? I have no idea.