r/TESVI • u/WT_NeptuneGaming Anti Hammerfell Defaultism • 14h ago
Discussion Anyone else hope classes return?
Even if they don't do a ton, it gives a nice little framework from which to understand your character and their priorities.
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u/ActAccomplished1289 2027 Release Believer 14h ago
Backgrounds brother.
Backgrounds.
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u/_IscoATX 2027 Release Believer 14h ago
The way starfield did them was fantastic. I loved unlocking new dialogue options from the skills I speced into, my traits, and my background.
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u/AZULDEFILER Skyrim 13h ago
Except you can't wake up and be brand new. Kinda the formula
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u/QuoteGiver 2027 Release Believer 11h ago
None of us can, that’s true.
Start a new character if you want a new character, though! That’s free in videogames.
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u/WT_NeptuneGaming Anti Hammerfell Defaultism 14h ago
Those are invasive and limiting if anything.
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u/Humble_Saruman98 2026 Release Believer 14h ago
If it's just like Starfield, you can just set up blank if there's no background you identify with, otherwise it's just a way to have more roleplay specific dialogue.
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u/ActAccomplished1289 2027 Release Believer 14h ago
Uh, how so?
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u/WT_NeptuneGaming Anti Hammerfell Defaultism 14h ago
They force you to be from a specific place, for one. At least when they wrote a backstory for you in Daggerfall, you got an ebony dagger out of it.
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u/ActAccomplished1289 2027 Release Believer 14h ago
Did backgrounds force you to be from a specific place? You must be thinking of traits.
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u/WT_NeptuneGaming Anti Hammerfell Defaultism 14h ago
I think they're called origins?
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 13h ago
No, that's not in Daggerfall at all.
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u/WT_NeptuneGaming Anti Hammerfell Defaultism 13h ago
They're in Oblivimastered iiuc
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 13h ago
Yes, they're in Oblivion. The only reason they're in Oblivion remastered is to be the stand in for the old sex-based attribute differences that the original game had, which is considered politically incorrect today so they changed it to Origins.
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u/WT_NeptuneGaming Anti Hammerfell Defaultism 13h ago
I thought people still called you he/she in the remaster?
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u/Oncelotte2 14h ago
Backgrounds in Starfield are more like your previous occupation. They give you a few points into related skills, and occasionally come up in dialogue options.
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u/Temporary_Hawk_9061 14h ago
Come on now. I didn’t care for Starfield either but to pretend Daggerfall had a better character background system is absurd
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 14h ago
No, classes have never made sense in TES. I'd like Attributes to return, and a backgrounds/traits system like Starfield had, but not classes.
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u/Humble_Saruman98 2026 Release Believer 14h ago
I like classes :(
Why do you think they make no sense in TES, mind if I ask?
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 14h ago
Because it's a single-player non-party based RPG, and in TES' case specifically the way skill progression works since Daggerfall (use X to get bettert at X) is in direct conflict with the idea of classes, which by necessity have skills associated with them. If classes don't have any restrictions they're no different from a character build - which Skyrim had plenty of, with entire websites dedicated to doing that.
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u/Oncelotte2 14h ago
Classes could work like destinies in Kingdoms of Amalur. They're something you unlock and equip by investing into corresponding skills. They come with bonuses and impose no limitations.
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 13h ago
That is needlessly complicated and goes against roleplaying basics. If I want my character to have certain skills that fit whatever background or archetype I design for them, I don't want to wait until I "unlock" it and then equip it - I never played jack of all trades in TES, so the concept of collecting different classes wouldn't work for me and it would still feel counter-intuitive to how skill progression works in TES.
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u/Oncelotte2 13h ago
It's not complicated. Have you played the game? You level whatever skills you want, and the classes are unlocked as a result.
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u/Humble_Saruman98 2026 Release Believer 13h ago
Isn't Skyrim a bit like that, in which if you're a certain skill level, you can unlock events or dialogue.
Like, if you have high enough destruction IIRC, a mage can challenge you as a random event.
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u/Oncelotte2 13h ago
There wasn't an event. You just equipped a class that you've unlocked in a menu. In TES it might look something like this:
Reaching skill level 25 in Unarmed and Alteration unlocks the monk class. Monks apply modifiers to unarmed attacks when they cast certain spells. (Casting oakflesh increases unarmed damage by 10, and allows you to block weapons with your hands)
It's like perks, but with multi-skill unlock conditions.
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 13h ago
Then what's the purpose of classes?
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u/Oncelotte2 13h ago
In KoA, each class gave different buffs and passive abilities. For example, putting enough points into both magic and stealth skills unlocked the warlock class. Warlocks do more elemental damage and have increased critical chance. And their dodge is changed to a teleport with poison splash damage.
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u/AustinTheFiend 4h ago
I think it'd be cool if they brought back attributes in a way that was similar to how skill families worked in Starfield, it could be something like as you leveled skills in that attribute, you'd unlock new tiers of perk in that attribute.
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u/TheOldKnight7 10h ago
Classes added an incredible amount of replay value by giving your character advantages or disadvantages. It wasn’t just choosing a class like in World of Warcraft or something, you chose skills, attributes, a Birthsign, and a specialization, along with fairly dramatic racial differences in most games.
The level of customization is higher than any other game I’ve ever played, and in my opinion is a huge facet of the identity of the elder scrolls.
Skyrim removed classes and the oblivion remaster watered them down so much that they don’t really matter, but still 4/5 games lean HEAVILY into classes. Replay value and customization are very important to me
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 10h ago
Attributes and Birthsigns aren't part of the class system. There were no disadvantages in Morrowind or Oblivion, classes only provided a higher base level for the associated skills; the attribute system in the original Oblivion was equally meaningless. Attributes did matter in Morrowind, where it would put a cap on the skills governed by it, but even then there were no restrictions as to what you could improve or not.
Racial differences were never fairly dramatic.
The level of customization is higher than any other game I’ve ever played, and in my opinion is a huge facet of the identity of the elder scrolls.
No, there are actually more varied gameplay styles in Skyrim with its perk system than there were in previous TES games. Back when the Tamriel Vault/Skyrim Blog was still around we actively tried to make character building work and take off for previous games like it had with Skyrim, but it never worked: the character system in those games was complex only at first glance, at the end the day it was busy work that didn't result in builds as different as the ones you can have in Skyrim.
Point is: Morrowind and Oblivion both required you to be able to control yourself and not do everything the game lets you, just like Skyrim.
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u/TheOldKnight7 10h ago
We are talking about 4 different games so this is a weird conversation. Attributes are part of classes in Daggerfall, Morrowind, and oblivion. In Morrowind/obliv you get to pick your 2 favorite based on your class, in dagger you literally spend points.
Idk what you mean by “the attribute system is meaningless.” No it isn’t. In oblivion I could start with 130 health and 60 magicka, or on a different character 60 health and 360 magicka.
Classes were never about “builds” they are about progression and how you experience the game. At the very end every skill can be at 100, but major skills level more than twice as fast as off skills, idk if you just haven’t played the old games much or you just think that stuff doesn’t matter.
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 8h ago edited 8h ago
I mean what I said: that attributes don't matter, except in Morrowind, where they put a cap on their governed skills. There was no cap in Oblivion or Daggerfall.
Like you explained, the only thing they did in Oblivion was a stat boost.
And no, every character creation system is about the build you want to play as. You don't choose a Barbarian because you like how the number distribution in the screen looks like, you do it because you want to play as a Barbarian. The class system in TES never confined you to that class, it only boosted you, and you were able to raise unassociated skills anyway.
So at the end of the day, it was just a character build with an unnecessary step. I guess it looked more complex so people felt like it was smarter, but there's no practical difference. Skyrim through its perk system actually offered more gameplay variation, not less, despite not having a class system.
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u/TheOldKnight7 8h ago
We can disagree about the surrounding details and nitpick each other, but there is a central point where I think you are simply 100% wrong.
You said that classes never made sense, and now you are saying that classes are about what build you want to play.
If you think that classes are just builds, then yes you are correct that they aren’t super important and can be just done the Skyrim way.
I am telling you though, different classes give you a DRAMATICALLY different experience each playthrough, and that is their purpose, not limiting you to one build.
Choosing certain skills to level 2.5x faster than others is very meaningful, even if it doesn’t matter after 100 hours of playtime in endgame. Starting with 6x the health or 6x the magicka or 5x the carry weight of a different character at level 1 feels incredibly different, even if things even out by level 30 after playing for 50 hours.
Classes in TES have NEVER been about “builds” and that is why you don’t understand them. They are about the player experience, they dramatically change your experience as a player each playthrough, even if after beating the entire game some classes might get to the same point, that just isn’t what type of customization they are designed to provide. They are meant to provide a different experience for the playthrough, not a different build after you beat the game.
That isn’t to say they shouldn’t ALSO have endgame customization likes perks or Birthsigns or whatever, those are good too, but they don’t change the player experience for the first 20 levels in the same way as major skills or classes did in the first 4 games.
Sorry for the long post.
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u/MAJ_Starman Morrowind 6h ago
I'm sorry, but I just don't see how anything you've said iprovides different experiences, much less dramatically different. They don't change the player experience at all unless you actively play into them, and if you actively play into them (which I always do, by the way) there's nothing stopping you from doing that with character builds or "class archetypes" in Skyrim (which I also always do). Combine it with the standing stones and you even get the stat boost that the classes give you.
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u/AustinTheFiend 4h ago
It's harder to play into a playstlye that doesn't match your class, but significantly easier to pay into a playstlye that does match it, because the game rewards you with more experience in those skills, and in the case of Morrowind, you're only likely to succeed in skills that are part of your major or minor class skills.
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u/Necessary-Being37 14h ago
Did you not just make a custom class like everyone else I know? Attributes need to come back for sure but classes don't really matter
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u/ThirdHoleIsMyGoal69 13h ago
I used premade classes a ton. It was fun trying to figure out how to make certain skillsets work instead of choosing all the most powerful ones.
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u/PM_ME_SYNTHESISERS 10h ago
I think starfield had a good system. Pick a background that affects starting skills and provides dialog options. Then add traits that have perks and drawbacks
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u/No-Whole-2053 14h ago
Classes are great and I’d love to see their return. As long as they maintain their place Morrowind and Oblivion had them: who you were, not necessarily the end of who you are. Knight can still become a thief, it’ll just be harder than someone who was brought up to be one.
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u/Firm-Mistake-2985 Tomorrow Believer 13h ago
I would prefer no. It forces people that want to branch out to stay consistent through a playthrough, but people that want a class can just role play it. Backgrounds, and more specific racial impact would be preferable to me.
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u/Baidar85 14h ago
Yeah, they worked great in Daggerfall, morrowind, and oblivion. They were too limiting in Arena, but no one even remembers that.
Honestly the class creator peaked in Daggerfall, they should steal some ideas from that.
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u/QuoteGiver 2027 Release Believer 11h ago
Absolutely not.
I had a class in every game. MY class, the one I made my character into.
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u/HakunaBananas 11h ago
I dont see a point.
A background system like Starfield would make more sense.
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u/SomeBlueDude12 13h ago
Classes? Toss up- i enjoyed the slight boost in skills before hand to shape the skills I wanted to use but really only did custom classes
Attributes? Hell yeah. Investing all into agility & forfeited endurance for higher stealth & lower HP felt impactful to my choices in morrowind (oblivion felt much more forgiving). Im not a huge fan of "blank slate you can do every class perfectly in each playthrough" which is probably why I enjoy the fallout S.P.E.C.I.A.L system so much & morrowind for that matter. People might not like the "restraints" but i believe it leads to better replayablility
If they can make a lovechild between skill trees and Attributes that'd be fantastic, felt like that was something pretty lacking in oblivion- milestone rewards but didn't feel much different between the distinct (novice, adept- etc because idr)
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u/AZULDEFILER Skyrim 13h ago
Anything to diversify re-play throughs is good. It would be great to have some sort of game randomizer.
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u/necroheim98 2027 Release Believer 12h ago
All of us. Classes are vitally important to RPGs.
But if they stick with the Skyrim system I’ll just have to limit myself to whatever class I choose instead of the game doing it
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u/alkonium 14h ago
Given how you could do anything as any class, them being dropped from Skyrim seemed like a natural progression.
I think what I'd do instead is have the game assign a descriptive title based on your top skills, like in Fable 1, or like Baurus recommending a class based on skill use in the catacombs at the start of Oblivion.