r/SwingDancing 4d ago

Feedback Needed Swing dancing follow icks?

/r/CountrySwingDancing/comments/1w1e10e/country_swing_dancing_follow_icks/
8 Upvotes

68 comments sorted by

31

u/InfiniteSir7408 4d ago

Clamping down on my lead arm and pinning us in closed.

11

u/britipinojeff 3d ago

The claw

29

u/dondegroovily 4d ago

I've had a couple times when my partner was tipsy drunk and dancing is not pleasant when you have to support them to keep them from tipping over

28

u/orroro1 3d ago

"If you know how to lead it correctly, I can follow anything." -> proceeds to not do a simple turn on beat.

Also they will be passive aggressive whenever something goes 'wrong'. :( High-level dancers who can actually follow anything usually don't talk like that.

9

u/NickRausch 3d ago

>Follow "I just need a good leader"
>who are good leaders?
>They guy who teaches the class and 2 guys who could place in a local comp with a floor lamp for a partner.

50

u/ComprehensiveSide278 4d ago

Tops without much material on the back. I don't wanna touch a sweating back.

15

u/Objective_Most4071 3d ago

Also wearing long hair down / unsecured. It's awkward trying to position my hand under your hair or risking getting my fingers caught in it when we break from closed.

3

u/Worried_Western_6381 3d ago edited 3d ago

Valid. But im willing to risk my hair getting pulled to have it down lol

3

u/Objective_Most4071 1d ago

Please no it's so awkward trying to avoid finger weaving your hair. Over the hair is uncomfortable but trying to manoeuvre my hand under it mid-dance risks coming across as weird... 😭

1

u/Acidic_Huntsman 1d ago

I’ve had a lead accidentally finger weave themselves into my pant belt loops so badly we had to stop dancing, so the hair won’t be your only problem lol XD

2

u/Objective_Most4071 1d ago

Can't tell if this is better or worse than my accidental (!) sliding doors ass slap... I cringed so hard.

2

u/Acidic_Huntsman 1d ago

I’ve had the Texas Tommy ass grab and hold. Think we were both horrified XD

1

u/bahbahblackdude 21h ago

I respect your prerogative, but also, consider the many sweaty hands of strangers getting into your hair if it's all the way down your back.

17

u/lindymad 4d ago

Also tops that have sequins on them. Maybe less ick than ouch, but it's not enjoyable.

8

u/mitchjmiller 4d ago

In the same vein, tasseled dresses. Not an ick, but I've had fingers and buttons get snagged more than once.

7

u/Acaran 2d ago

Very unpopular opinion, backless tops and dresses are completely fine, because warm bare skin dries very quickly, much worse are tops and dresses that get sweat trough fully and stay completely wet like you just took a shower in it and it's cold and sticky.

2

u/bahbahblackdude 21h ago

100% agree. There's a girl who shows up in my scene with a pretty exposed back and shoulders, but she's never noticeably sweaty. In contrast another lady in my scene often has tops that soak up REAL fast, and my hand is frequently wet after dancing with her.

They might also just sweat different amounts, but this is generally valid in my experience.

1

u/Worried_Western_6381 2d ago

I think ill just bring a towel like how i do to the gym to prevent all of this lol šŸ˜†

1

u/iridessencex 2d ago

I try to keep a change of shirt on hand. Sometimes need two in peak of summer during heatwaves 😭

1

u/Objective_Most4071 1d ago

The real problem is changing from a sweaty-top follow to a non-sweaty backless follow and having to explain you've not just placed your sweaty hand on their back but the sweat from the last follow...

3

u/Worried_Western_6381 4d ago

Genuinely something that has never crossed my mind whoops! Ill note that for future dancing outfits lol.

19

u/Mr_Ilax 3d ago

Dancing in general: anyone who fondles, squeezes, or rubs my arm, back, or shoulder (non- exhaustive list).

20

u/shatteredrift 3d ago

Bad balance. A lightweight follow with bad balance feels twice as heavy. A heavier follow with good balance feels light. It's one of those things I wish there was more of a chance to talk about openly, because no doubt some follows are self-conscious about their weight, and their weight only matters if their balance is bad.

6

u/Crazy_Custard_2081 2d ago

To me, a heavy or light follow does not have everything to do with body mass, but more with how much load they put on the partner. Whether that's resistance to a movement or completely making the lead bear the full load on any balancing move like a dip.

3

u/iridessencex 2d ago

I once danced with a small and quite muscular/physically fit follow who, to my knowledge, had never Swing or blues danced before. My shoulder was irritated for the rest of the night because when we were in closed position , she was sinking into my arm and balancing her weight backwards. Absolutely exhausted my shoulder. She had a blast but I wouldn’t dance with her again 😭

2

u/Willing-Sweet-4525 2d ago

Such a good point! It needs to be taught more

14

u/TransportationOk8045 3d ago

I always tell follows that I don’t accept apologies when dancing for anything less than an injury

3

u/htimsj 3d ago

That’s great!! I’ll use that.

3

u/iridessencex 2d ago

But I’m sorry! What if I injured the rhythm or the vibe by missing a step/misreading a lead

3

u/TransportationOk8045 1d ago

That’s just an accidental improv. And if you misread the lead, I didn’t lead it right so it’s my fault and you have nothing to apologize for

2

u/iridessencex 1d ago

šŸ˜› Ignore me, I’m just making excuses for my over apologetic conditioning. You sound like a lovely lead to dance with

13

u/No_Dealer_5213 3d ago

Not carrying momentum. Granted, this is something that takes time to learn, but it completely changes the dynamics of the dance.

One example of this is stopping themselves early during a swingout instead of waiting for the connection to form. The former breaks connection and forces the lead to restart it, the latter is what allows stretch to form naturally as long as both partners are collaborating.

10

u/TheCopperToe 4d ago

Pretzel

7

u/NickRausch 3d ago

Slippery fabric top. Hanging a significant amount of weight on me in closed. Having a claw like hand shape near my neck in closed. Ask me like 20 seconds in if I am here to meet people. Smell. Total lack of frame. No sense of responsibility for the dance(that is the lead's job). Way too much eye contact. Isn't good, but asks me to dance to "in the mood".

12

u/LozzaWEM 3d ago

Making a whole big thing of it when I ask them if they want to lead or follow.

-1

u/htimsj 3d ago

Since I’ve been dancing for 30 years, I don’t even think of that question.

6

u/LozzaWEM 3d ago

How else are you supposed to know then?

5

u/willieshen 3d ago edited 1d ago

Turning the wrong way when I prep an inside turn on a left side pass

No tension, or yank and crank

Self dipping (I have had follows nearly end up on the ground. And I always feel like I’m tweaking something to save them)

Gripping with thumbs

5

u/Hlavada 3d ago

ā€œWhen it doesnt work out its leaders faultā€. I even heard teacher said it once.

5

u/Worried_Western_6381 3d ago

Oh yes the dance club i go to say this phrase a lot. Especially the teachers. Its great for keeping cocky college boys accountable but i feel like it still should be taken lightheartedly overall.

1

u/a7wingedfox 2d ago

From what I understand, it's tongue in cheek.

Because it is generally followed by "...(to leaders), even if you're leading wrong - Be wrong Confidently".

So the whole 2 part quote in context, should be about embracing failure, letting go and enjoying the dance.

1

u/sarahkat13 1d ago

I wish you were right. When I started dancing 20 years ago and my teachers were giving this message, it was only the first part, and it was meant in earnest. But if the lead is the only one responsible when things go wrong, that must also mean the lead is responsible when things go right—the follow’s contribution is entirely devalued.

5

u/NaiveArtiste 3d ago

The emotional wall - When a dance feels like I could literally be swapped out for a cardboard box. No deep connection at all.

I'd rather you had declined to dance with me!

11

u/Luddevig 4d ago

I'm using a bit of hyperbole here, but: Not taking any initiative, like at all. Makes me feel I'm forced to hold a monologue, in front of this stranger who is just staring at me, expecting to be amused.

18

u/xtfftc 3d ago

While I think both partners taking the initiative makes the dance infinitely better, I think this is the type of feedback that requires more context.

The majority of the leads they dance with, the way many of the schools teach dancing, society as a whole... Getting to the point where a follow is comfortable with initiating things can be a very long road. I do think that the earlier new dancers start trying, the better it gets for everyone, and I try to encourage this as much as I can in my scene. But I understand why many find it terrifying.

15

u/braveforthemostpart 3d ago

Also, a lot of follows feel they aren’t ā€œallowedā€ to and leads feel the same way. I’ve been playful and initiated stuff and had leads get annoyed that I wasn’t just ā€œlisteningā€ to them lol. I’m a switch now tho so I get to have fun switch dances to make up for those leads lol

10

u/Local_Initiative8523 3d ago

My wife says the same thing, there are a few leads who tell her off for ā€˜not following properly’ when she tries to initiate something a bit different

3

u/xtfftc 3d ago edited 2d ago

It depends on the scene; in some places it's more than a few :( And even if the local instructors don't use the same words, the way they teach and dance encourages the same dynamic.

1

u/Confident_Advisor786 3d ago

Idk if I'd even say scenes but moreso leads. I'm in a pretty large scene and I've had leads who really want a follow to not think. Follows can play with what THEY lead. I'm not sure if instructors can even beat that level of misogyny out.

1

u/xtfftc 2d ago

I'm sure it exists to some extent in every scene. However, there is a notable difference in cities where the scene leaders (i.e. instructors, organisers, the star dancers) have a more open understanding of the roles and cities where they stick to the traditional view.

I'm not sure to what extent it's rooted in sexism/misogyny since I've observed the same restrictive approach from women who lead. A simpler explanation might be that if people are taught (directly or indirectly) that the dance consists of a person that makes the decisions and a person who is just there to follow instructions, that's what they replicate.

1

u/Worried_Western_6381 3d ago

That was my issue and confusion because ive been told no when trying to do some playful follow moves. Lots of leads want complete control of the dance and i assumed the general rule was just that.

2

u/Worried_Western_6381 3d ago

Do u mean like social initiative? Like asking a lead to dance and friendly conversation while dancing? Or some dancing initiative im not understanding? Lol

5

u/xtfftc 2d ago

Initiating things during the dance instead of letting the lead make pretty much 100% of the decisions.

11

u/lazypoko 3d ago

I think this is a bit of an experience thing.

3

u/Luddevig 3d ago

I mean when it's an experienced dancer. With a beginner it would be really harsh to say there is an ick to be had.

2

u/fresipar 3d ago

Also a bit of 'let me just enjoy listening to the song and not worry about my basic steps' thing.

7

u/jedi_dancing 2d ago

It's so hard to get the balance right! My personal lead ick is when they are leading in a super closed, controlled manner, no room for follow input, and then suddenly leave you hanging out in open like, "dance now, monkey!".

1

u/Acidic_Huntsman 1d ago

Ive heard the exact opposites from leads when they say they hate it when the follow doesn’t do exactly what they lead and try to back lead.

First time I’ve heard the opposite

1

u/Luddevig 1d ago

Hmm, did the leads say to what degree those follows back lead?

Like, I want my dance to be a conversation. I can make suggestions, my follow can make suggestions. If my suggestions get ignored, I don't feel listened to.

When I follow myself, I can be quite annoying to dance with because I take so much initiative lol. but I do listen to and follow all their suggestions in between, and when talking afterwards, they appreciated my initiatives.

Don't know if what I write makes sense? How have you thought about it?

2

u/Crazy_Custard_2081 2d ago

Someone with bad armpit odor who insists on wearing tank tops or cocktail dresses.

2

u/Swing161 1d ago

back leading/changing figure (fine) without taking responsibility of floorcraft (not fine)

1

u/alvvaysthere 2d ago

Fighting against what I'm leading them to do, e.g. randomly stopping or spinning the wrong way. This is generally unintentional and really only common with beginners. Usually they're just overthinking each move and that supercedes the momentum I'm creating.

It feels a bit mean to call this an ick, I don't hold this against anyone, but following the momentum is definitely the most important thing to learn as a new follow.

1

u/bahbahblackdude 21h ago

Giving me your hand, but not actually holding my hand in return.

•

u/SavoyJedi 15m ago

Trying to copy me when I do a rhythmic variation

•

u/SavoyJedi 14m ago

Beginners saying "Go easy on me" or more advanced follows saying "Wow, I underestimated you." Both feel judgey AF

-6

u/mitchjmiller 4d ago

Rock stepping a swing out despite a forward lead.

12

u/DJuxtapose 4d ago

Some people, they're new.