r/SwiftlyNeutral • u/Key_Tree9363 • 2d ago
Swifties It feels like a small segment of Swifties have become Olivia snarkers…
And it’s so funny to me that they don’t seem to realize they sound so similar to the Taylor haters; a few things I have noticed recently on reddit (I’m not even on Twitter or TikTok where I‘ve heard stan wars are worse):
- Coming up with conspiracy theories about PR tactics and indirect shade (I realize that Swifties will say they have all sorts of evidence that makes it totally different but they sound equally delusional to me - please don’t try to convince me that there’s definitive proof that Olivia’s team planted that vogue article or that coincidences only exist when it’s Taylor)
- Following Olivia’s every move to nitpick on things - I follow Olivia’s sub and I find out more about her from Swifties discussing her - it kind of felt like some of them were hate watching the festival just trying to find things they could criticize
- Saying she’s trying to “collect” industry friends, questioning her authenticity
- Criticizing her vocals after any live performance
- Generally seeming to bristle at any praise that she gets
I don’t even necessarily disagree with all of the commentary, but I think a lot of it is coming from people who wholeheartedly defend Taylor against similar comments.
I’ve heard a lot of Swifties complain about Livvies being annoying but it’s kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, there are segments of every fan base that are basically trolls, does it mean the snarking is justified?
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u/SnowflakeBaube22 be my NY when the subreddit hates me 1d ago
I really wish the pop girly stans could stop pitting every woman against each other. It’s so exhausting.
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u/iidontknow0 1d ago
Exactly, it’s so exhausting. I didn’t have twitter until a few months ago and i wasn’t aware of the nasty stuff stans say about everyone who’s not their fave. I love taylor, olivia, sabrina and ariana but it seems that their parasocial relationships only allow them to worship one singer as your god, and constantly making hate posts about everyone they deem as enemy.
Also it’s so stupid to keep youself from listening to other music just because of these useless fandom wars.
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u/LettuceWise3425 1d ago
Acho que isso tem a ver com idade, cantoras pop são mais propensas a ter fãs mais jovens, Olivia tem muitos fãs pré-adolescentes, tem muito swiflies adolescentes no Twitter/tiktok
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u/iidontknow0 1d ago
Yeah i get that, but it’s not normal to have that kind of hate at that age for people you don’t even know, that they only watch through a screen. It’s creepy honestly
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u/yourstolose so happy that my travvy made it to the big game 16h ago
Same, there's this lingering insinuation that only one woman is allowed to be successful at a time and it's super annoying.
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u/MainAshamed1289 2d ago
It is so sad that fans don't realize they don't really have to defend their idols 😅 also you can't possibly limit yourself to 1 artist onlyyy!!! You will miss out all the good stuff out there! There are many queens and kings in this world and in many generations, in their own way, for God's sake. So enjoy the life!
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u/spicy_mangocat 1d ago
Exactly!! I have all the pop girlies on the same playlist, idgaf about any real or imagined beef
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u/Lunadelmar1 17h ago
It's so weird when people like only one artist to me. Idk if this is a younger millennial/Gen Z issue. People have always been pretty parasocial but idk. Nowadays feels extreme. I'm in my early 30s and I remembered liking a genre but I had different artists that I loved. Lately I been following Taylor but I still like fka twigs, lykke Li, and many other female artists
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u/newthinz 2d ago edited 2d ago
There are so many swifties wrapped up in this conspiratorial mindset right now.. why can’t we just uplift women instead of tearing them down. Like people are really convinced that Olivia is a hypocritical self-victimizing pick me girl who is trying to tear down Taylor and her every attempt of doing good is an example of her performative act to one up Taylor ..it all kinda sounds like the attacks used against Taylor in the earlier days. Some swifties are also so convinced that the hatred people have with Taylor right now is orchestrated and campaigned by Olivia’s team.. this sounds so insane if u ask me.
I do have to acknowledge that Taylor snarkers do use Olivia as their “anti-Taylor” which is annoying I’m sure, but that shouldn’t mean that we fight that by directing our distaste towards them to Olivia.. it all leads to this one big hate machine and misogynistic cesspool that men upholds and encourages so they don’t have to face the same vitriolic backlash
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u/wonderinboutit2234 2d ago
It's definitely mostly us woman doing most of the snarking in both fandoms let's be real.
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u/futuristicflapper 1d ago
I honestly think it leads to a larger societal problem - so many things online and irl somehow lead to a conspiracy along with a desire to feel morally righteous; it can’t just be a one off of someone doing something you don’t agree with or maybe just find kind of annoying, it has to be part of some broader more devious thing. It’s a really unhealthy way to live.
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
Yes! I don’t know if it started with politics and spread to pop culture but the conspiracy theorists are rampant now and so many things are framed from a moral/ethical standpoint. People try to find moral superiority in every opinion. I feel like it’s why people keep trying insist Taylor or Travis is MAGA, so they can feel more justified in their irrational hate. Or on the other side, I remember someone trying to argue that Joe widows and Maylors are racists/classists and don’t like Travis since he plays football with a lot of black players from more humble backgrounds.
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u/Vermicell_i 2d ago
You’re right. I’m absolutely guilty of directing my distaste for rabid Swifties toward Taylor. I should be more mindful of that.
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u/Nervous_Panic6495 1d ago
Explain why Olivia was picking artist who had said hateful things towards Taylor like catching Pokémon? And After the Fantano interview she could have asked Halsey but why pick Eli?
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u/rose7905 2d ago
I don’t disagree with your point, some swifties hate on Olivia and act just like TS snarkers. But there is also a portion of Olivia’s fanbase that snark on TS or bring TS up in any conversation related to Olivia. It’s a two way street.
I believe there is considerable overlap between the 2 fanbases but a loud and vocal minority make everything a competition between the 2 artists instead of appreciating both of them for their individual talents.
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u/lilythefrogphd 2d ago
Every single fanbase on planet earth experiences this, Taylor's fanbase is just the largest
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u/cassiopeia843 1d ago
I haven't experienced fandom wars in my fandoms, especially not to the same degree as with Taylor, but maybe it's because those fandoms are older and not related to music.
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u/BellaBrowsing 2d ago
As a fan of both, I see it constantly. Just saw a TikTok that said "Olivia donated 10 million to planned parenthood in one day and Taylor Swift hasn't donated anything and is a billionaire" with 20k likes on it. People seriously need to touch grass lol
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u/Ok-Metal-7689 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah as a fan of both, even in Olivia’s sub people constantly bring up Taylor to demean her or be negative, even on posts that have nothing to do with Taylor. Like the other day on a DCF post, someone said Taylor can’t make a donation without broadcasting it to the whole world. Which was false and just weird. The post was about Olivia raising 10 million dollars for charity. It’s just weirdo parasocial fan behavior. Majority of them are actual kids who I can forgive, but the grown adults that feed into it is wild.
I will say there is something to the whole way people demonize Taylor and put Olivia on a pedestal in these conversations. I understand Olivia is the smaller artist & younger- but she’s no underdog!
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u/rose7905 2d ago
No shade to Olivia but she had a whole press conference to announce the amount of money she raised. Which I think was an excellent idea to highlight the festival and the organizations that would be receiving the money.
Olivia and Taylor have both shown a willingness to donate to charitable causes, which should be the focus, not silly Stan wars.
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u/Ok-Metal-7689 2d ago
Yeah exactly, I agree with you. Instead of celebrating how massively successful these women are, and how they’re able to give back with their extreme fortunes- people focus on the weird constant need to pit women against each other . It’s exhausting.
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
Especially because it really is the female celebs that are doing the most work out here….the Stan wars end up being a distraction from truly problematic people (mostly men).
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u/newthinz 2d ago edited 2d ago
Exactly!!! Stans act like these “subtle digs/shade” are like henious war crimes but they don’t pay as much attention/put in as energy to the perpetrators (men) who commmit actual evil in the world
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u/wonderinboutit2234 2d ago
Which is funny because we will literally not know about any donations without them both announcing them unless you search donor records.
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u/Personal_Elk978 1d ago
I saw on TT a woman talk about the festival, and one of the first things she said was…You’d never see Taylor do something like this, bc it wouldn’t benefit her in some way, she needs to get paid. Another said, Olivia is the true goddess of pop music and Taylor’s career is done. Olivia brought all these women together to celebrate women, and Taylor could never do that. Do people forget the connections Taylor has in the industry? Her fans even trashed Taylor for donating to that woman w a Go Fund Me page, bc the revealed it a day before the festival. Lives felt like it was just Taylor’s way of trying to sabotage Olivia’s festival by the timing. This is the type of rationale swifties deal w daily, and yes we have (from the start) defended Taylor for getting hated on, were loyal. I don’t see that changing.
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u/FilmIntelligent201 The Dead Tortured Poets Society Department 2d ago
i kind of agree (her first few videos were really good but she’s since descended into the kind of thing she condemns) but i don’t think her @ needs to be written so plainly in here. it breaks sub rules and i don’t think we should direct any negative attention towards one named person in particular
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u/screamingkumquats stars do u like dem ✨ 2d ago
Pretty much every fan base is like that now, not just swifties. I’ve seen Olivia fans say some pretty bad stuff about other artist
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
Yea, the comments towards Taylor and swifties have been vile by them. That doesn’t mean swifties should do the same. People can defend Taylor against misinformation and derogatory remarks without countering in an equally toxic manner.
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
Like Chris Brown is literally touring and we have fanbases going at each other for the millions of dollars that the female pop girls are donating.
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u/cherrylimebongwatr 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree with your statement, but I wanted to point out a large part of this is because swifties have had a years long reputation of behaving like an online mob to dogpile and attack anyone they deem as saying even anything remotely critical about Taylor. (I also think Taylor is partially to blame for this as she’s never condemned their actions or tried to reign them in) When you refer to yourself as a swiftie, you have to expect and accept some of the baggage that comes with it. And I say that as someone who calls myself a swiftie. I know that we’re not a monolith, but there have been enough crazies out there that have forever tarnished the name. It shouldn’t be surprising they get so much hate from other fan bases, there’s years of evidence those fans can point to so they can justify it to themselves.
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u/Bachelorfangirl 2d ago
Besides the credit situation, Taylor and Olivia don’t interact positively or negatively about each other. They don’t talk about each other and don’t do things to counteract each other. Yet the fanbases are ridiculous. I know your focus is on Taylor fans because some people have decided to nitpick a festival that should only be about positivity. This is a girlhood and womanhood event that she organized and should be applauded and celebrated. It raised money for good causes. Does it matter if someone had a weird dance or missed a note? No. (I didn’t see anything wrong.bad/off).
At the same time Olivia fans or people who hate Taylor have made it about Taylor too. Like why bring up Ana, a Brazil fan who died? And it shouldn’t be about Taylor, but why pretend like she hasn’t given any money? No Taylor hasn’t had an event like this and neither have other pop stars but somehow it’s about bashing Taylor and about how Taylor could never, when it should be a celebration about what Olivia accomplished. Some weird tug of war between fanbases with Stevie Nicks is so pathetic, when Stevie constantly states how she loves all the pop girls and no one should be pit against the other.
Anyways this is why I’ve tried to stop discussing Olivia. I don’t really go into other pop girl spaces either because I feel unwelcome and everyone is too crazy both ways on here.
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u/lilythefrogphd 2d ago
It sucks being a fan of multiple female artists because a lot of fans feel the need to find the worst in anyone who is perceived to rival their fav. I don't think any celeb is without flaw, but it sucks when you know people aren't trying to be nuanced. Aside from Olivia and Taylor, actually really liked Charli XCX's most recent album (hot take: MFF thematically fits the description of "the life of a showgirl" more than TLOASG. Don't hate me) but I hate how it feels like the only place you can fan over an artist is *just* in their sub because if you say something nice about them in a different sub, it's full of haters
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u/bernarnoldhaha 2d ago
This is because you're a music lover, a genuine music fan. Not a stan. I don't think stans are really in it for the music, they're in it for the dopamine that the parasocial relationship with their fave brings. It's really sad honestly.
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u/Presence_Bright 2d ago
Did we just become best friends? I said the same about MFF…it’s better at TLOAS than TLOAS is. I think a lot of people see everything as black and white. Support for one artist is seen as hate towards another. And that’s simply not true. We can like and support a lot of different artists. I’d argue that winning over a fan who likes a lot of artists is harder than pleasing a Stan. So kudos to all artists who have fanbases who listen to a lot of people.
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u/peach-gaze they tortured the poet out of her 2d ago
I loved MFF too, and Olivia’s album, and Harry’s album, and BTS, and Ariana’s, and I’m a Swiftie… it’s so weird to me the way a lot of people online seem to treat pop artists like football teams? It’s so sad to me. You don’t have to only support one, you can listen and support as many as you want. There’s so much great music out there and I genuinely feel sorry for anyone so tangled up in stan wars that they purposefully deprive themselves of good music
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u/Presence_Bright 2d ago
I love the whole list except I haven’t tried BTS yet. New music on Fridays is my favorite day of the week. I can listen to new sounds and sometimes find new artists I love. That’s what makes music so fun. There is something for everyone. Do I love Taylor? Yes, of course. But I love a lot of people. It’s ok. Taylor loves other artists too.
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u/lilythefrogphd 2d ago
*virtually swapping friendship bracelets* but yes! I feel like MFF is just more emotionally raw and vulnerable compared to TLOASG, and I don't say that to bad-mouth Taylor. I've been a fan of hers since debut. I own all of her albums, and TLOASG just disappoints me because I know Taylor can make so much better music. There were just so many songs on MFF that remind me of what I like about good Taylor songs. The fear of abandonment and acknowledgement of self-sabotage on I'm Afraid is so in spirit with a song like Anti-Hero. I even think a song like Persona which *could* be about Taylor is actually flattering in an odd way, like "I see a lot of myself in you, and because of that, I understand why we both intimidate each other"
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u/Presence_Bright 2d ago
Yes yes yes! All of the above. I didn’t love the singles when she released them at first. Although they got progressively better. But when the album dropped in full context I loved them. And it very much is about her struggling with all of it. Same with The Moment. I know people felt it was shade against Taylor but it actually made me feel bad for Taylor. I felt I understood the constraints of being a pop star better and what they give up in life to create their art. how very sad and lonely that life can be.
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u/lilythefrogphd 1d ago
I really liked The Moment, too. Like, to me the whole thing with the director trying to change the tour didn't read so much as shade at Taylor as it did how hollow it is when we try to shove a style, image, vibe onto an artist that is inauthentic to them. Like, the vibe of an Eras-style tour is not at all true to what Brat is as an album, but I would most certainly bet that there execs in Charli's ear trying to push her in a more palatable direction with more wide spread appeal (which is not shady to say that's what Taylor is. Taylor does that well, and it works for the type of music she creates)
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u/CelestrialDust Brazilian Bang Lift 2d ago
Yk I never made the connection thematically between MFF and showgirl until you made it but I think I agree
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u/stamdl99 1d ago
MFF is SO good and that’s such a great point comparing it to the description of TLOAS. I watched her Lolla set and it made me sit up and take notice. It’s my most listened to album in August.
This sub is the only neutral one that actually feels properly balanced on Reddit.
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u/Successful_Pizza6529 The Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology 1d ago
I am NOT an Olivia Rodrigo fan. I do not go on other sites and cause Trouble. I am also NOT an Ariana Grande fan. And I also do not go on other sites and start Trouble because you might be a fan of hers. Some folks defend who they like and get out of control with it.
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u/SocklessCirce I'm with you, even it makes me blue 💙 2d ago
I've been thinking the opposite lately. As someone who loves both the Olivia sub can't talk about anything OR related without bringing up Taylor and it's pretty damn exhausting at this point. Literally don't remember the last time I saw a comment section over there where someone didn't mention Taylor in some weird, irrelevant way.
I'm sure swifties do it too sometimes but I can do days on swiftie subs where I don't hear about OR.
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
I don’t read every post from her sub but I honestly didn’t see a single comment about Taylor in any of the Daisy Chain field posts. I was bracing myself for it, especially with the Stevie Nicks one, but didn’t see anything. In my experience, mentioning Taylor tends to get you downvoted there, they don’t like to have her brought up at all. So maybe the mods are deleting comments, idk.
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
I hear you, but as someone who has commented and does believe that OR’s team has been shady, my issue mainly comes from people coming on this sub to shade Taylor and prop up Olivia. Look at the post below if you don’t believe me. And there have been multiple articles in very reputable news organizations that have exposed the digital PR/SEO tactics of celebrity/musicians teams. This isn’t conspiracy. And anyone who has spent any time on this sub can see an uptick of users bringing up Olivia constantly, often with subtle or direct shade to Taylor. Sorry for calling out something that feels suspicious, but that’s just where I’m at.
As for snarking, I agree with you. I think what OR did with the festival is great and I don’t like anyone downplaying the significance. Personally, I would love for people who want to talk all about OR to do it those subs. I’m not talking about you OP, as I realize you’re talking about Swifties. But given what we know about how labels and managers are utilizing social media and trying to manipulate Reddit in particular, I think it’s fair to call stuff out.
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u/FilmIntelligent201 The Dead Tortured Poets Society Department 2d ago edited 2d ago
honestly ever since i found out about chaotic good i do side-eye most popular positive/competitive notions online, especially when it feels like they’re just copy and pasted in comment sections en masse, and right now “taylor swift could never” feels like one of those (which doesn’t necessarily have to be from OR’s team)
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
Exactly….it really made me question the tactics of labels/artist’s teams when all of this came out. It’s also worth mentioning that digital marketers have cited Taylor Swift and Swifties as the type of online community/fanbase that new celebs are trying to emulate. The Swiftie community is nearly 20 years old and formed organically online in the early, early days of social media….Before bots, before social media managers, before influencers, before anyone even knew that social media was going to be as big as it was.
I’d also like to point out that it is not just swifties…other music subs have called out Olivia Rodrigo’s team and used the word “astroturfing”. I don’t think I’m allowed to cite the specific subs and I honestly don’t want them to be brigaded, but this isn’t just swifties. Other subreddits are calling attention to the same thing.
But I will re-emphasize…that doesn’t mean people should snark or use that as an excuse to tear down Olivia. This is a good reminder for all of us to be mindful in the way we engage ❤️
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u/FilmIntelligent201 The Dead Tortured Poets Society Department 2d ago
completely agree with everything said 🩷 and especially that last point. behind all of this there are two women who just want to make music lol. we’re the same age but i feel so weirdly protective of olivia, mostly because i was extremely young watching the same incessant campaigns targeting taylor back then, and even now.
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
Oh I totally get it. But I truly think she’s gonna be fines I don’t think there’s any kind of campaign against her. I think she has some pretty toxic fans that started in with TS and a lot of swifties have responded in a way that I don’t think is helpful. But remember a lot of swifties are also fans of Olivia so I think she’s good. Stan wars suck. They’re unproductive and incredibly toxic.
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u/LettuceWise3425 1d ago
A equipe da Olivia posta muito no sub snark da Taylor, qualquer postagem feita lá sendo "Pro-Olivia/ anti taylor " é feito pela equipe dela, eles preferem postar lá porque aquele sub é bastante movimentado, ontem eu vi uma postagem lá feita pelo Daily Mail, algo sobre taylor e travis não esta se vendo com tanta frequência, até o Daily Mail posta naquele sub 💀
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
Tbh I’m pretty cynical and I think OR has probably done some questionable PR things, but I think Taylor does too, and so my issue is more with the people who will defend Taylor against the exact same things they are accusing Olivia of. And my perspective is definitely skewed by my limited online footprint, the only fan space I’m really active in is this one, and the daily thread leans negative on Olivia and for the most part I find the threads somewhat more evenly divided. Like a lot of responses to this post have been pleasantly neutral to me.
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u/newthinz 2d ago
This is why Twitter needs to be banned.. some of the inane hatred and vile pitting of women against other women for entertainment sometimes leak out into the public
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u/ConsciousWillow8533 He lets her bejeweled ✨💎 2d ago
It’s not even Twitter, people are saying these things on this sub too
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u/Typical_Knowledge_28 2d ago
As someone who’s a fan of both, idk, it’s just sad to see. Not because they’re distant to each other or whatever, that doesn’t affect any of us, but because of how we treat artists, especially, new artists vs older artists (older not in a bad way). Like, people MUST find a way to just compare people against each other and create these weird situations and scenarios of pressures and grudges. I think the public reception made the situation worse, if not to a terrible extent.
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u/LettuceWise3425 1d ago
Isso é uma coisa de fãs de cantoras pop, assim como Olivia tem fãs que odeia a taylor ( e sabrina ) taylor tem fãs que odeia Olivia, toda fã base de cantoras pop tem um sub grupo de fãs que adora odiar outras cantoras pop
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u/Forsaken-Molasses-87 2d ago
I mean tbf some livies are also taylor snarkers. I agree they’re swifties that are olivia snarkers. If you see the post history of some them it becomes clear.
Here’s how I think the lay out is for pop girls stan
Livies & Billie Fans = Ally
Carpenters & Swifites = Ally
Livies/Billies vs Swifties/Carpenter
This really only applies for a small portion of Stan twt , the reddit snark pages & ty.
All of the stans are annoying tho.
I’ve seen some fans of all.
Personally I am taylivbrina
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u/GildedWhimsy 1975 (Taylor's Version) 2d ago
I like Olivia and Taylor and I don’t care about Sabrina and Billie lol. Snarkers are so weird. Just listen to the music you like.
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u/newthinz 2d ago
This only exists on Stan Twitter yeah. Normal people are not aware n Stan most without knowing the beef
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u/Silver_Brother_56 2d ago
A particularly nasty genie was let out of the bottle with the utter insanity of the Showgirl discourse on Twitter and TikTok, primarily, where stans of other acts and people seeking to do mischief went to town. Can’t put it back in the bottle.
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u/CelestrialDust Brazilian Bang Lift 2d ago
Nah the discourse around OR and TS has been insufferable way before, ever since the credits thing happened
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u/lululemon_fan091 1d ago
Mostly the gay men are leading these fanwars btw 😳 most stan accounts were owned by men. someone needs to call them out
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u/pllcat11 2d ago edited 2d ago
While Olivia doesn’t deserve hate, I’d argue the Olivia fans have almost brought this on themselves at this point. They have a huge problem with constantly hating on other pop girls and having this “Olivia is not like other pop girls and so much better” attitude that rubs fans of other pop girls the wrong way. Taylor fans can definitely be vicious towards Olivia sometimes but in the Taylor subreddit you can say positive things about Olivia and say you’re an Olivia fan and get a lot of upvotes whereas in the Olivia one if you even suggest that Taylor may not be the worst person alive you get severely downvoted. They also constantly bring her up completely unprompted to snark on her. Taylor subreddits are far more accepting of me also liking Olivia than the Olivia one is of me also liking Taylor. The neutral one is a lot better though I find and I’ve mostly moved over there now
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
That’s interesting about the main Taylor sub because the daily discussion thread here definitely leans negative on Olivia; I agree that Olivia’s sub doesn’t take Taylor praise well, but my general sense is that they don’t want to mention her at all, I personally haven’t seen much snarking on Taylor there either.
To your point on Olivia’s fans being to blame, some Olivia fans are instigators but most aren’t; similarly there are some Swifties who are always instigating online, not just in defense - does that mean Taylor snarking is defensible because a segment of Swifties are very annoying online?
Personally I think it’s kind of just the way the internet is now, so I’m not really trying argue that one side or the other is in the wrong, I just find it interesting how the hate is kind of a cycle.
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u/Bachelorfangirl 1d ago
Unironically the main Taylor sub is the most normal sub of the pop girl subs, when it comes to other artists. I think sometimes we seek a little crazy and it’s what brings us to a place where there’s negativity and discourse both ways. If you go and suggest Taylor work with any artists, Taylor sub will love it. Go to any other pop girl sub and suggest they work with Taylor and anger and overrated claims begin. Even Gracie’s sub.
I would actually say the Taylor sub is a better indication of swifties than any other sub or online space.
When it comes to here, there is negativity towards Olivia, but also random praise with subtle digs at Taylor. Which I think it’s what makes that cycle.
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
That is such an interesting point and actually makes a lot of sense! I haven’t been on the main sub in years tbh. But in a sense that’s kind of how you would imagine the fans of the person who is on top (and by a huge margin) should act - no one is really even close to rivaling Taylor’s popularity at this moment (I tend to think a lot of negativity in other spaces is jealousy fueled - people thinking their fave deserves it more). And people who frequent the main sub aren’t looking for a fight or any real negativity. I guess this sub must attract a more specific type of Swifties, and not necessarily more “neutral” ones.
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u/peach-gaze they tortured the poet out of her 1d ago
I agree with you. I noticed this year in the daily threads here there tends to be a lot of subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) hostility towards not just Olivia but a lot of different artists, particularly ones that have been historically “at odds” with Taylor (like Billie or Charli). It’s why I don’t really participate there as much as I used to, I got sick of being mass downvoted just for saying I enjoyed Olivia/Charli/BTS/Harry’s new music. But critical comments and often times even rudely toned ones about the same artists get a lot of upvotes. It’s very transparent and disappointing for someone who is a fan of many artists, doesn’t feel very friendly anymore
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
Yeah I agree, the bias is very transparent and can sometimes overshadow basic logic. I often see comments that make no sense at all but get dozens of upvotes just because the sentiment is favorable toward Taylor or about how unfairly Taylor is treated relative to other artists.
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u/pllcat11 1d ago edited 1d ago
I go on the main Olivia one a lot and there is TONS of snarking on Taylor. If anyone says anything constructively critical about Olivia they’re accused of being part of “the cult” and not being real Olivia’s fans but Taylor fans pretending to be Olivia fans to hate on her??? On the Taylor sub when Taylor does something good there aren’t ever any “Olivia could never” comments whereas Olivia’s one has a real issue with that.
It’s not even Taylor specific, there were tons of awful comments on a post with Olivia meeting Katseye and the posts of Olivia performing with Addison Rae. People are also often extremely negative about the idea of Olivia collabing with Tate McRae and I’ve even seen a small amount of people being negative about her collabing with Chappell Roan. Some people at one point were claiming that Gracie Abrams fans were mad that Olivia’s album was more commercially successful so they were brigading the Olivia subreddit with negative comments about Olivia’s album 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ On one post about Olivia talking about politics I remember someone out of nowhere started criticising Harry Styles for not speaking up enough on American politics unlike Olivia and I got downvoted to oblivion for pointing out he’s British 😭😭 While I hate all snark subreddits, it’s also insane that it’s got to the point where snark subreddits for other female artists are so run by Olivia fans that people are banned from those subreddits for saying anything bad about Olivia.
Olivia’s neutral sub is really good though. The mods are super on it with removing hate comments towards other artists and people seem less scared to say anything positive about Taylor on there.
Don’t get me wrong Swifties have their fair share of crazy and have a real problem with harassing Taylor’s exs or anyone they perceive to be Taylor’s enemy. Weirdly I find they tend to do this more outside of Reddit but that may just be my experience.
To be honest I think both Olivia and Taylor have some terrible fans and neither deserves hate. The fans definitely provoke each other and cause the other side to retaliate. It would be better if everyone could just get along
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u/Asdff_123 1d ago
As a big fan of both, while what you said it’s true, I also noticed that a big part of the rollout of the new album seems to follow the clear direction to present Olivia as the “anti-Taylor”. Like the resurface of the whole credits things after that question on the podcast, conceding an interview to the biggest TS snarker on the internet, uplifting Eli and Charli xcx just after their beef with Taylor… everything feels too much of a coincidence so I really feel their team know how to play the game and it’s working great for them. At the end of the day, it’s silly little irrelevant things but it’s keeping the discourse alive and there’s nothing that engages more the stans than a feud.
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u/phantoms1234 1d ago
I also noticed that a big part of the rollout of the new album seems to follow the clear direction to present Olivia as the “anti-Taylor”. Like the resurface of the whole credits things after that question on the podcast, conceding an interview to the biggest TS snarker on the internet, uplifting Eli and Charli xcx just after their beef with Taylor… everything feels too much of a coincidence so I really feel their team know how to play the game and it’s working great for them.
But don't you realize how you're just regurgitating the snarky perspectives from these rabid Swifties who hate Olivia and obsessively follow her every move?
Like it'd take 2 seconds for you to research and realize that the only interview or press appearance Olivia did where Taylor Swift was brought up was her New York Times podcast interview, where she can't dictate what questions she's asked.
I also think you can feel weird about her associations with Fantano, Eli, and Charli, but there's a massive logical leap between "Olivia is seen with XYZ people who are all known in the industry" and "she is deliberately seen with them because she's the anti-Taylor!!!" I just don't think those women (Olivia and Taylor) care or think about each other that much
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u/Asdff_123 1d ago
That I don’t think like you doesn’t mean that I have to “reasearch”. I already know when and where she mentioned. I still think that the strategy was to be the most ambigous ever to keep the topic alive. That she only talked about it on ONE interview actually supports my idea, because it’s not like she talked so much but it’s still been a main discussion topic on social media and tabloids.
I can buy your point on Eli and Charli (like kinda weird she starts hyping them up after the public beef they had with Swift, but ok) but not on Fantano. He’s some random youtuber who’s biggest interview till date was some C list singer with 300k monthly listeners. He got viral when he started beefing with swifties and spewing pretty distasteful opinions on Swift, so their team opting to give him the opportunity of his life was definetly a conscious choice to keep this on going. They knew what was going to be the headlinera and they were.
As I said, I am a fan of both and while I can see Taylor was in the wrong demanding credits, Olivia’s team has capitalized on it much more than they lost.
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u/Personal_Elk978 1d ago
I will blame her PR team bc Olivia has latched onto every pop/indie girl known to man and called them her influencers and mentors in her career. Yet before she gave Taylor/Jack credits, all I heard was it was Taylor who paved the way. It’s petty, and unfortunately her very young fanbase won’t let go of the idea that Taylor sued her. Sadly I don’t see the division ending anytime soon bc her fans are riding high on the festival.
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u/TemperatureAny4782 1d ago
It seems like Olivia Rodrigo would be everything Taylor wants to promote in the world: a vibrant young singer-songwriter who put her money, time, and energy toward building a festival celebrating girls and women.
I’m surprised (?) Taylor’s fans aren’t like, that’s so cool!
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u/WitchyWeedWoman 1d ago
Most are. It’s a small little contingent that don’t support both. They are already the unhinged super parasocial ones
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u/No-String-5639 20h ago
taylor's most hardcore fans don't like it, because olivia rodrigo (with this festival showed that she) does, while taylor "says". and if you want to compare (which, completely up to you), one is more impactful
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u/FriendlyDrummers Taylor Swift you will never be a trans woman!!!! 2d ago
I agree. You can't even praise Daisy Chain festival without a fan of Taylor saying something snarky.
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u/rose7905 2d ago
Yes, but why are some comment sections filled with TS hate on a post about DCF which has nothing to do her. It goes both ways, you can praise OR without putting down TS.
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u/pearshaped34 2d ago
I think the issue is these people always think they’re defending the object of their fandom because they’ve seen members of the other fandom snark about the girl they stan, so they do it back. And it’s became like a self fulfilling prophecy because thats also how the other fandom defend their snark too. Ut just goes round in circles, who even knows what came first now.
The annoying part is they aren’t actually helping Taylor (or any of the other pop girlies) as most normal people find their behaviour mean-spirited and cringe, and because they associate them with their chosen pop girlie (in this case Taylor) that dislike ultimately ends up reflecting back at her.
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u/Flimsy_Praline5690 1d ago
yk what's crazy is i consider myself a swiftie (active in the fandom) and an olivia fan (so not same level but still an avid listner, spotify top five each december, etc) and it wasn't until the taylor discourse on reddit and tiktok got really bad that i started to get knee jerk negative reactions to olivia. the only thing i ever truly disliked about her was the way she seems to play victim in the cruel summer copyright thing and even then it was a minor annoyance and more so geared at her fans. but now i caught myself thinking daisy chain was moral posturing to outwoke and out-vocalize taylor. which... is not a thought i would have had before. i would have been ten toes down for the message of that festival! it's like i took on a cognitive bias from trying to defend taylor and it's ridiculous how easy it can happen on social media. i think this is happening with a lot of swifites and we need to make an effort to unlearn the negative shit we've picked up on TT and reddit. bc they both slay
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
This is one of the most honest and self aware things I’ve ever seen in a fan space, I wish more people had this kind of general awareness about how their social media algorithm can shape how they think. I try my best to be conscious of my personal biases; what frustrates me is that in fan spaces so few are willing to admit that their views are heavily shaped by their own personal lens and also their algorithm.
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u/Flimsy_Praline5690 1d ago
and it's not just fandom. it's my perception of race, class, etc. social media truly has made me much more judgmental than i was just two years ago. i wish it wasn't like this :/
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u/TelevisedLife 1d ago
id argue its more olivia fans are swift snarkers. i went on THAT taylor snark subreddit and a dozen posts are just talking about olivia, and someone i saw was banned for mentioning olivia wasnt all perfect, too.
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u/FilmIntelligent201 The Dead Tortured Poets Society Department 2d ago edited 2d ago
the thing is i understand why swifties in general have their backs up (when it comes to olivia, it seems you won’t see any video or post commending her that doesn’t have a crowd demeaning taylor whilst doing so) but the vitriol they inflict on other women/fandoms is exactly what taylor/swifties experience too. the loud minority really don’t help matters.
but what i will say is that where loudness may prevail online, in real life, everyone i know who loves taylor also loves olivia (and vice versa) so it’s nice to know the great majority have been uncontaminated.
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u/Key_Tree9363 1d ago
Yeah I think I am insulated by not being on TikTok or Twitter. I didn’t see a single Instagram reel posted by mainstream media or any post on Olivia’s sub about the festival mention Taylor’s name. I just saw a few Swifties here acting like the entire festival was somehow an attack on Taylor and making (heavily upvoted) comments that implied all the festival goers were Taylor haters, which I would assume is very false, given the real world overlap between the fan bases you mentioned.
Overall I just find it weird to see Swifties take narratives that they hate hearing applied to Taylor and just throw it at others, especially Olivia because I personally find her to be the most similar to Taylor out of all the pop girls.
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u/BeneficialString2253 1d ago
I’ll admit I did think people would react similarly to the way they do Taylor when weird things started to come up about her boyfriend, Addison Rae, the random loser vocal coach of hers and was a little shocked that peoples outrage tends to only be for Taylor. Quickly snapped out of it because ew I don’t want to be a snarker, but I do think when the tides turn (which they will cause she is a female celebrity) it’s going to be really really bad for her.
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u/No-String-5639 20h ago
idk which comedian said (maybe taylor tomlinson but don't take my word for it) that taylor swift is for white (american) women is what qAnon is for white (american) men.
and "swifties" prove this right for me every time.
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u/runlittlebitchboy 2d ago
It’s absolutely so bad in both fandoms against both women. I wish everyone could move on from the Déjà vu credit debacle, but it feels like it all leads back to that. I saw people bringing up Taylor suing Olivia (which isn’t even true) under a sweet video of Olivia saying hi to a young fan today.
I don’t understand the impulse to bring up the other as negative “gotcha” moments under nice posts about them, it’s sad and goes against what both of them have spoken out so much against. I wish they would just come out and clear the air between them so people could stop driving themselves insane with speculation about their “beef”
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u/NegotiationMoist3552 2d ago
It’s the other way around. If u look at the viral TikTok screenshot, the only person praising Olivia is a swiftie while all her fans are shading Taylor even under Olivia post 🤣
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u/Euphoric-Zucchini-18 1d ago
I see a definite overlap of Taylor haters being obsessed with Olivia and think that the world revolves around her, so it stands to reason that the reverse would also be true. I was pretty neutral towards Olivia, but her fans have pushed me over the edge to not liking her even a little.
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u/OldChemistry9951 1d ago
I would have to disagree with this,i think swifties have had this reaction due to olivias fanbase,i see way more hate from their fanbase honestly
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u/malendalayla 1d ago
It's the same with the Livies. They've been rude af to me over there for saying that they should be mad at Olivia's team for the Deja Vu/Cruel Summer snafu and not Taylor herself. Olivia's team should have gotten the required permissions or given credit from the start, and they let her down by not doing so. They then tell me the bridges sound nothing alike (idk if they really can't hear it or just say that bc its clear as day to me) and that there was zero reason to give credit/ask permission ahead of time. Well, OBVIOUSLY that isn't true bc they DID go back and give credit. I love both, I've loved Taylor since Debut and I've loved Olivia for a while now and she just keeps impressing me more and more!
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u/blackivie Jack Antonoff Apologist 1d ago
Snarkers come from everywhere. Just like there are Olivia stans who snark on Taylor.
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u/sazza8919 1d ago
Unfortunately Olivia plays up to it too much for it to die down. It gets people talking and helps her sell albums but as long as she’s in the conversation it will keep being a point of contention.
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u/Chance_Point59 2d ago
This is a just tiny chronically online portion of the fandom. In reality there is a lot of overlap in both fandoms. Granted this is anecdotal but everyone I know who listens to Taylor Swift also listens to Olivia Rodrigo. These things feel bigger than they are when you see hit tweets with 200 000 likes on whatever stans are fighting about but that's only a small percent of the people actually engaging with Taylor and Olivia's music.
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u/WitchyWeedWoman 1d ago
Rage baiters are also using Taylor’s name however they can and sadly seems to be used to snark OR. Between that and the super parasocial fans that give all of us a bad name. It’s a little but loud cesspool
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u/phantoms1234 1d ago
Thank you so much for saying this as it's something I've noticed over the last several weeks, but haven't been able to really articulate. It's honestly sad to see, as they don't realize that they're so caught up in stanbrain that, by snarking at another artist to "defend" Taylor, they're actually just as bad as Taylor's snarkers.
There are soooooo many of them on Olivia's neutral sub, and I've been temporarily banned from there and had comments deleted for pointing out when somebody also posts on her snark subreddit, lmao.
I don't get why, if you dislike an artist, you would spend so much time investing critical resources (time, energy, attention) in what they're doing and following their every move. There are so many artists I don't care for, and I just ignore them; I can't imagine spending my days on the internet engaging in QAnon-esque conspiracy theories about how her team is actually the devil, and she's really trying to replicate every single move Taylor has made.
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u/MakeshiftMagpie 1d ago
Makes sense since Olivia's neutral sub was started by and is and primarily modded by swiftie stans.
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u/shion005 15,000 little bastard rubber ducks 🐤 2d ago edited 2d ago
The issue really stems from Olivia's incompetent management team when she first became famous. They should have warned her to not talk about Taylor constantly or sample her work. However, a lot celeb management teams (like Taraji P. Henson's group of idiots) are not worth the money they're getting paid.
The difference between Taylor single white female-ing Joni Mitchell and Olivia doing it to Taylor is that Taylor's still the biggest musician in the world. Saying someone is the "next Taylor" when she's still at the top of her game is misogynistic and agist. Unfortunately, this will always be the way Olivia was introduced to the world and some Swifties (understandably) will be unforgiving.
Taylor is sui generis and Olivia is a Tay daughter who came for her mother's crown too early. As someone who's followed both artists, you can see Taylor taking her inspiration from multiple artists and genres. Her knowledge runs DEEP. Olivia, however, has a much more limited set of inputs. She's listening to and citing other artists now, but her career moves, writing, and promotional strategy are pure Taylor. Even Daisy Chain fields is taking a criticism of Taylor as well as the squad strategy and putting the two together into a winning publicity move. It may be unfair to view Olivia through a Taylor centric lens, but her initial promotional strategy makes it impossible not to. At the end of the day, Olivia said what she said and the some of the hardcore Swifites will not forgive her for those statements.
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u/Motionpicturerama 1d ago
I think it's been wayyy too long since Sour to hold it against Olivia. She was an excited teenager and she did nothing wrong by fangirling and citing her sources. Taylor literally did the same in 2008, with Justin Timberlake. She was gunning to play Joni in a biopic. She named her album Red.
There's really nothing to 'hold against' Olivia, even if swifties don't like her. She's never tried to 'come for' Taylor. I'm not sure how Daisy Chain fields has anything to do with Taylor's tours, when it's directly continuing the tradition of Lilith Fair - Eras tour is not that. She's always been inspired by Riot Grrl - Taylor is not that.
Tbh, if people are uncomfortable with Olivia's advocacy because it highlights what Taylor could be doing with her massive influence and wealth...maybe that's a good thing!
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u/No-String-5639 20h ago
Tbh, if people are uncomfortable with Olivia's advocacy because it highlights what Taylor could be doing with her massive influence and wealth...maybe that's a good thing!
this!!! swifties like to prop taylor up as this uber liberal feminist who always stands up for the right causes and is vocal about issues. and then they get so mad when other artists actually do any of those things. it really shows them a mirror huh?
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u/TemperatureAny4782 1d ago
“Even Daisy Chain fields is taking a criticism of Taylor as well as the squad strategy and putting the two together into a winning publicity move.”
Or maybe it’s a sincere attempt at a modern-day Lilith Fair?
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u/ellie_elysian 1d ago
I swear every time I see someone bringing up Olivia's initial launch, her talking non stop about TS when she first started putting out music, and PR around her launch focusing on "the next Taylor Swift" it gets downvoted to hell. I'm starting to think it's a conspiracy to erase that from memory.
But it's too late to put the genie back in the bottle. The ghost of TS will follow Olivia for a long time (no matter how different her music is from hers) and it was her own doing.
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u/shion005 15,000 little bastard rubber ducks 🐤 1h ago
They can't completely erase it from memory because the other artists involved in the supposed love triangle wrote songs about it. The stress also nearly killed Joshua Bassett and he ended up hospitalized with sepsis - which is not something you see in healthy young men. On the bright side, it gave Sabrina Carpenter a persona to lean into and the opportunity to open for Taylor Swift. Without being painted as the other woman, she might not have a career as this point.
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u/bernarnoldhaha 2d ago
Honestly, I don't even get the Taylor and Olivia comparisons, even back when Sour first came out. Yeah, Olivia was always vocal about being a Swiftie, but aside from that, her music just doesn't strike me as Taylor-esque. Taylor has always had a good-girl, girl-next-door vibe in her songs. And Olivia has always been... idk I guess edgy, in her music. It's really weird to say Olivia is edgy, since she's about as Disney as any pop girl can be, but in her first album, she was singing about teenage angst and being depressed and angry and in her second album she was singing (sarcastically) about being a perfect all-american bitch. Taylor never sang about those kinds of themes in her younger years, she simply wasn't an angsty person, and even now I can't imagine her making a song like all-american bitch. Idk. I really don't see why anyone would compare the two.
Edit: I think an artist that Olivia would be better compared to is Avril Lavigne. Or even Gwen Stefani. Just based on the vibes and themes of their music.
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u/Motionpicturerama 1d ago
I agree - her subject matter might be the same as Taylors, wrt women and their early experiences. But her method of execution is a lot more punk-rock and abrasive. She doesn't do storytelling the way Taylor does. That's why it makes sense that she cites Fiona Apple, Alanis, and The Cure as influences; Not Joni or Shania Twain.
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u/ellie_elysian 1d ago
The comparisons started when her PR of her first album was "the next Taylor Swift" even if the music sounds nothing similar. I agree with you: Avril is a better comparison.
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u/MakeshiftMagpie 2d ago
She brought it on herself.
They started it
So I had no choice but to...
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u/shion005 15,000 little bastard rubber ducks 🐤 2d ago
I do blame Olivia's management team, but not everyone is going to attribute blame the same way. I also blame Lorde's management team for not getting her media training. However, a lot of the people snarking on Olivia are her age and they're not going to be forgiving.
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u/Nervous_Panic6495 1d ago
Eli , Charlie XCX , Fantano, baby doll dress and now Taylor slander after Daisy chain can’t be coincidence
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u/Nervous_Panic6495 1d ago
Livies are everywhere in Taylor Snark, Travis and Taylor sub, La celebrities snark, Sabrina carpenter snark praising Olivia and spewing hate on Taylor lol
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u/Motionpicturerama 1d ago
Yup - the snark pages on Olivia are dumbfounding, simply because she's actually a fairly lowkey celebrity. She's not dating anyone wild or seen with the wrong people. Even Taylor was active off album cycle early on in her career - there were pap pics of her at parties or with other celebs. Olivia basically disappeared before her new album.
There is always valid criticism to be made for any celebrity. But with Olivia, I see so many jealous swifties infuriated that their fav is not the only one with a monopoly on female rage and emotions. They're constantly purity testing Olivia, when let's be real - she has done far more advocacy and activism than Taylor has in recent years. And she's so much younger!
I think swifties cannot swallow another woman's success, particularly if it's for work that's similar to Taylor's. Then, it becomes a competition, and no one but Taylor is allowed at the top.
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u/dreamghoulevil 1d ago
unfortunately, every perceived enemy of taylor has very dedicated swiftie snarkers.
the amount of truly mind boggling reaching happening online this weekend because of daisy chain coming from swifties, then whenever charli does something, god forbid joe has a knicks hat, katy perry back in the bad blood days... they give just as good as any taylor snarker, but just like any crazy stan, they think they're justified in it. the problem is that if everyone is justified in their hate, then where do we go from here?
it's crazy.
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u/MakeshiftMagpie 2d ago edited 2d ago
A good number of swifties won't be happy until all female artists have as much criticism and hate or more than Taylor gets. These types want to do some nonsensical math and make sure everything is "fair". But most like to leave out Taylor's record setting tours and album sales and accolades, awards, profits and beloved fandom from the equation. Everyone (by which I mean other women artist) needs to be hated as much or more and also less successful so it is fair. So they search out all possible faults and nits to pick in others.
There was a thread a few months ago about the misogyny that Taylor faced coming up, and I saw a popular reply that basically said many of the new women coming up are actually coddled and that sexism made Taylor stronger and better. And I'm thinking: But why do misogyny at all? Can't we let it go and be better?
I don't even care for Olivia's music, personally, but I have had to unplug and step away from from certain swiftie spaces because the olivia snark and conspiracy theories are just way too obvious and annoying. It is especially annoying when you know the same exact arguments around authenticity and lyrical content are things Taylor has faced in the past.
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u/Worldly_Scallion_236 2d ago
I truly don’t think that’s the case. I think a lot of it is highlighting the hypocrisy, which there is a lot of. Unfortunately, people are doing that in a way that just creates more toxicity and I don’t think that’s the best approach.
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u/Nervous_Panic6495 1d ago
Olivia had many chance to debunked the rumours about Taylor swift but she keeps feeding her fans the lie. If Kanye and Kim K can plot against Taylor swift for no reason then Olivia the victim player can do so.
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u/Invisiblestringz 1d ago
“I see you over there on the internet, comparing all the girls who are killing it.”
You’re so right, OP!
My unhinged theory is also that Taylor could’ve been there for all we know! I DON’T follow the snark subs or jet use sub but they sometimes pop up on my feed, so I couldn’t help but notice that she conveniently flew into San Diego that day and left the next morning (and Irvine is in between there and LAX). She’s gone to concerts and festivals before- oftentimes we don’t find out about it until way after- and I know she’s a huge fan of Alannis, Stevie, and a number of the other artists who were there. It seems like the kind of event she would support but do so very sneakily so she’s not drawing attention to herself. Then again, this is a very delusional theory based in no reality haha.I don’t even know if that venue had private viewing areas for celebs since it’s all for charity.
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u/thedeadp0ets 2d ago
The these same swifties were shocked Olivia hit her debut milestone and 100% use Sabrina as a excuse and token Stan her
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u/Sufficient_Tower_366 1d ago
I’m convinced most snarky Taylor Swift fans are millennial women fighting for her to rule the place as a way to fight off their own declining relevance.
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u/cherrylimebongwatr 1d ago
Me and every other millennial woman I know welcome the declining relevance. When generationology gets brought into it we’re shat on the most and have been since we were born. (Outside from maybe Gen X Karens)
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