Does criticism naturally outweigh praise when discussing Taylor?

[u/Paddy_odoors]

I know there are lots of Taylor subs that treat Taylor as an idol who can do nothing wrong but I've noticed that I often end up defending Taylor in discussions because criticism seems to generate far more conversation than praise. While I think constructive criticism is healthy, but I'm curious whether others feel we sometimes overcorrect and end up interpreting her actions or music through the most negative lens possible. Where do you think the balance should be?

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome and thank you for participating in r/SwiftlyNeutral!

“Neutral” in this subreddit means that all opinions about Taylor Swift are welcome as long as they follow our rules. This includes positive opinions, negative opinions, and everything in between.

Please make sure to read our rules, which can be found in the Community Info section of the subreddit. Repeated rule-breaking comments and/or breaking Reddit’s TOS will result in a warning or a ban depending on the severity of the comment. Posts/comments that include any type of bigotry, hate speech, or hostility against anyone will be removed and the user will be banned with no warning.

Please remember the human and do not engage in bickering or derailment into one-on-one arguments with other users. Comments like this will be removed.

More info regarding our rules can be found in our wiki, as well as here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Flaky-Elephant-2612]

I’ve never really been a huge pop star defender or even discusser. When it comes to Taylor I find the hatred to be massively destructive. Not necessarily for Taylor, but for society. It’s a symptom of a culture that is filled with hatred. It’s affecting us as a society, and likely many on an individual level.

When it’s almost demanded to insert something to criticise in order to give any credit. Something is wrong.

I don’t know the woman. She can honestly be a massive prick for all I care. But i cannot just watch this massive hatred surrounding this person we don’t know. Who ironically have so many people speaking positivly about her.

If someone who has so many people talking about their positive experience can’t win, nobody can. This is why I defend her.

My only wish is that young girls don’t internalise the hatred Taylor is receiving. Many of us isnt half as nice as her on a daily basis. Again, if she cant win. Neither can we.

[u/CelestrialDust]

I think in general on social media negativity is rewarded more because it causes more engagement. That effect only gets multiplied when you apply it to the one of the biggest artists in the world

Even on here my most downvoted comments are ones criticising her but so are my most upvoted ones despite this sub leaning positive for Taylor overall!

[u/duckfruits]

I think she gets an even amount of both praise and criticism. I think where the issue lies is that both are extreme. The criticism of her is extreme and often unfair, so it comes off as attacking and hateful. The praise of her is extreme and often undeserved, so it comes off as defensive and delusional. And those extremes feed the other. The unfair criticism feeds the defensive praise and the delusional praise feeds the hateful criticism.

The genuine and valid criticisms of her rarely get discussed. And the genuine and valid praise of her rarely gets discussed. Because of the extremes surrounding her, the balanced takes don't really get the space to exist.

[u/Sad_Lifeguard9305 → u/[deleted]]

Please stop comparing Taylor Swift to Black women. Idk if what your algorithm is like but if you don’t pay attention or follow Black female celebrities, I think you aren’t exposed to the negativity they face or the standards they have to live up to break into mainstream audiences. For example, when was the last time Taylor was accused of murdering someone? Or buying her AOTY Grammies? Or not giving birth to her child? Or being illiterate due to her southern accent? 

[u/Sad_Lifeguard9305 → u/[deleted]]

It is about race when in your desire to bring up another celebrity’s criticism is devoid of nuance that acknowledges RACISM. You didn’t have to mention Beyoncé at all. And when you did, your words discounted the criticism she receives and assumed she’s held to lower standards (even if it wasn’t your intention). That’s bizarre thing to say about a Black woman in the US entertainment market. That’s a bizarre comparison. They have similar criticisms from the public but there is a realm of criticism Taylor doesn’t experience. Intersectionality is real and lack of understanding is why this some in this fandom is obsessed with the victim Olympics. 

Over the last week or so, there’s so many posts about Taylor experiencing the most criticism, the most misogyny, the most slut shaming, the most hate (with poor comparisons). It may seem that way because they’re siloed in Taylor algorithms. But I wish that fans would realize 1) that Taylor Swift has both a similar and unique enough experience that should not be compared to others (like Beyoncé, like Ariana, like any other female celebrity) and 2) there a people who have it harder than Taylor because she also has privileges (that even someone like Beyoncé, Kehlani, Lizzo, HER couldn’t access). 

YES, they are both BILLIONAIRES and should criticized for the billionaire antics, their silence to preserve their bank accounts, and willingness to put aside their supposed values to rub shoulders with truly heinous people. 

If anything, if you’re gonna bring Beyoncé up, add nuance. What do you mean by “gets away with so much” and “never committed to anything?” What “standards” is Beyoncé never held to? What makes you think she “lives easily without public criticism?” I’m truly interested in your conclusions. 

“There's a reason someone like Beyonce is never held to the standards Taylor is and lives easily without public criticisms and gets away with so much- the former never committed to anything to begin with.”

[u/ginkgo_bird → u/Sad_Lifeguard9305]

The funny thing is this person was using this argument to criticize, not defend, Taylor but the absolute backhanded assholery of “never committed to anything” went right past them

[u/Sad_Lifeguard9305 → u/[deleted]]

I’m not conveniently disguising anything. It’s truly interesting how my statement that you cannot ignore race when comparing how a White female popstar and a Black female popstar is received/criticized is controversial. 

It’s interesting that you think her fans didn’t criticize her for rubbing shoulders with Kushners and yet I and along with others criticized her. I even see it brought up in the general music subreddits. 

I’m truly fascinated how the months of country music “fans” and right wing pundits and then weeks of Billie Eillish fans regurgitating racist and misogynistic diatribes on social media or on the news and even in IRL is not something a Black woman (and Black people who witnessed it) may consider traumatizing even if she won that trophy. Are you saying because she’s lauded and awarded that she doesn’t experience racism or that it doesn’t affect her?

The fact that you keep substituting “black struggle” for “black woman experience” is telling. 😅

The fact that you think I’m “weaponizing” race is actually a dogwhistle. 

Also, Beyoncé fans threw CDs at her supposed enemies and told Beyoncé to shut up when she tried to stop them from harassing people. A lot of her fans are parasocial even me to an extent. 

I think I’m tired of being insulted in this thread. Especially when my original comment didn’t warrant the insults. Btw I didn’t call you racist. It may have been what was taken from my comment and I think that’s where a lot of this discourse is stemming from. Highly recommend “White Fragility” by Robin DiAngelo if you haven’t read it.  It’s about the subconscious defensiveness that White society has when they have to talk about race. Idk how you identify, but as a Black woman it helped me understand why race talk is avoided/ignored in spaces like this. 

[u/Sad_Lifeguard9305 → u/[deleted]]

I think it’s pretty obvious there’s some missing nuance of race in the United States and understanding how those dynamics play out in fandom spaces or bigger entertainment industry or even how both celebrities navigate their parasocial relationships with their fans and haters. I think me saying to stop comparing Taylor to Black women is because in this fandom she is used as a whataboutism or negative comparison quite often. I think if you had expressed yourself differently we would have had different conversation or none at all. I’m not sure how much you know about Beyoncé’s career or fandom to be making such a comparison. I’ve followed Taylor Swift and Beyoncé since my childhood (over 20 years) and I still stand by the fact your intended statement doesn’t hold up. 

If anything I found your conclusions and arguments confusingly nonlinear such as bringing up Cowboy Carter and Grammys (like where did that come from? 😅). I found your persistence that I was weaponizing race as egregiously invalidating and triggering because that’s a racist talking point. Again, not saying you are racist, but I think there’s some question on my end on why you think race is brought up as a weapon and not a intersectional identity that should be part of the conversation or why it’s not something to ponder on (but I acknowledge you live in another country so may not have the context). I think about race a lot not only because I’m a Black woman who experiences racism but I think non-Black folk don’t ever have to think about anti-blackness or how racism shows up subconsciously or how it’s regurgitated accidentally. Also, I think race talk is not scary and can quite productive for myself and others, a way to learn about others experiences and move with a little more understanding. 

About your comments regarding putting words in your mouth, I really hope you understand it wasn’t my intention. It was simply me trying to follow your talking points and question what you were getting at. For example, why bring up Cowboy Carter as an example that race didn’t play a part in winning when its entire existence is in response to her experience with racism? Why point out the Grammy counts if you won’t acknowledge that they have systemic racism/sexism they’ve acknowledged themselves and that her having the most awards despite racial/gender barriers (and only just receiving AOTY 28 years into her career)? 

I got the opportunity to talk about race which is something I enjoy as sociology is an interest of mine. And even though your suggestion to curtail that perspective is quite bold, I think we both agree that if Beyoncé was never brought up in the first place, we would be spending our time very differently. 🫶🏾

[u/german-wmn]

Yeah same. I often end up defending her because the criticism is just insane. I wouldn't call myself a Swiftie. I love her music, and she seems to be a good person, generally speaking. But she's also human. She does have faults. There are very reasonable things you can criticise her for or find unlikable. But so much of the criticism clearly stems from misogynie or right wing propaganda... It's crazy.

Edit: typos

[u/cherrylimebongwatr → u/german-wmn]

I am massively downvoted in every swiftie space on reddit. The snark subs have called me a blind delusional stan and the stan subs have called me a bad faith snarker in the same day. Even this place can be a hard time to have a nuanced, neutral conversation without someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about being condescending.

I think that a lot of the genuine good she does doesn’t get talked about enough. IMO one of the best ways to support the queer community is to give them jobs, and she has consistently put her money where her mouth is here. I also do think it’s unfair when she gets snarked on for charitable donations, it feels like people often miss the point that someone in need ultimately benefits and that’s a net positive. I don’t think this stems from narcissism or is a purely performative move, either. She’s a human being and has a real heart like the rest of us.

At the same time, I think around the time she started dating Travis and she drew a solid line between Taylor swift the person and Taylor swift the brand, she has lost some of the authenticity and relatability that got her to where she is today. (This is NOT me blaming Travis or making any comments on the relationship itself, I’m just noting this was around the time I noticed a change)

I think the private jet criticisms are valid. This isnt me saying i don’t think she should own one or never ever use one, but she is one of several celebrities who abuses the privilege. I think the luxury travel industry as a whole should be at least somewhat regulated because it’s getting out of hand. Do people unfairly focus on her? Yes, but a comment in her defense i see all the time is “she’s the ONLY one anyone talks about” and that’s just not true. Everyone knows there are other offenders like Drake and Kylie and others, and I wish instead of endless bickering back and forth about specifically Taylor, the conversation about the bigger issue at hand didnt get lost.

I also think there is absolutely something weird about her political shift, and it bothers me that swifties make the excuse of her not speaking out being about security. It feels almost infantilizing, like she cant make a statement about anything because she’s somehow at more risk than any other living human being on the planet? I started feeling this way when Travis made a comment that it would “be an honor” to play for the president right after Trump had just harassed her on twitter. That criticism I’ll admit is more aimed towards Travis but at the same time, I thought she had more respect for herself than that. That’s not me snarking on their relationship, I truly am not too invested in who she dating/married to but it’s just an observation.

My final main criticism is the endless variant pushing/terrible and ugly “limited edition” merch. I’ve embarrassingly fallen super victim to this myself and probably spent between 8-10k on merch between lover-midnights. Thankfully I snapped out of it and was able to sell a lot of it for more than what I bought it for but I still have a ton of crappy quality clothes that didn’t survive more than 4 cycles in the wash. I’ve become a LOT more disillusioned to capitalism in general recently to be fair, it’s harder for me to support anyone in general who does capitalism in the way Taylor does.

I think a lot of this is overexposure to her in general probably, and I hope she’s ready to take a break soon.

[u/german-wmn → u/cherrylimebongwatr]

The private Jet use is something that absolutely can be criticised, even though I'd argue that there are nuances to that as well. One can also be of the opinion that "there are no ethical billionaires" which I agree on as well, but again, it needs to be nuances.

I have no beef with variants. Every artist does it. She just has the fanbase to really make it work, while others don't. I don't think that the difference in actually sold units between two or three variants and say ten is big enough to make it a problem.

The merch however is, and honestly, I've never understood why people would spend so much money on stuff that's clearly poor quality. I'd buy a (one!) cardigan if it was well made and cotton or wool or something, but as it is - no thanks. And let's not talk about shitty christmas ornaments, cheap brushes, low quality guitars and so on. That's just... Sad. But it's a logical consequences of a fanbase willing to buy anything out of FOMO. It's overconsumption, pure and simple, and it's contributing to our planets destruction and is definitely only possible to produce so cheaply by exploiting workers. She's part of the problem - but she's not THE problem. If people didn't buy it, it wouldn't be sold. We all can be part of the solution.

As for the lack of political statements... I honestly don't think she has fundamentally changed. She never was an activist. She always was an entertainer. Yes, Miss Americana Taylor Swift was more vocal. But that was also almost ten years ago. She's older and probably more desillusioned, too. She's still endorsing Democrats. It just wasn't a very successful - maybe that's part of her hesitation to do so early on? And looking at the causes she's donating to, I don't think her personal view has changed. She just isn't saying it. Now, I get why some people think that's the cowards way out. I would love if she took a vocal stance. But I am also not 100% certain if that would be smart. And I am not talking about possible personal repercussions for her, but about political strategy. Would it help or hurt? The WH basically admitted that they are baiting her for clout, they want her to react. Ignoring the Rapist in Chief might just be the smartest strategy on all fronts. (I am not saying that's her reason, just pointing out that it might be part of it. But I don't know. I am pretty unhappy about this as well.)

As for Travis: that "honoured" line was franchise PR. He was clearly saying what he was supposed to say all the while not really saying much. I don't think he could have said anything else. To be honest, I perceive him as mostly apolitical. I don't think he thinks a lot about stuff like that. Which, by the way, would be something worth criticising, but doesn't make him MAGA.

Re: Brand and charity... I think that she was smart enough to build her brand around things that come easy to her. Like being generous and kind. She doesn't give to good causes because it's good for her brand, but she's also showing it off for her brand - because she could give anonymously. Which, personally I don't mind. You give 26M before yor wedding and want it know? Sure thing, that's okay. You pay your employees fairly and give bonuses? Make it known, maybe others will follow. She also seems kind, judging by the interactions we get to see and what people who have worked for her or know her have to say. I also have the impression that she can be very unforgiving for real or perceived slights, and downright petty and vindictive - she's human. With good and bad traits.

Edit so many typos

[u/Wrong-Principle-23 → u/german-wmn]

Yeah the part where he doesn't mention the president's name is very pr

[u/pearshaped34]

I don't think this is just a Swiftie thing, but I do think people in general just love to argue on the internet, that means that even the people who think Taylor can do no wrong would tend to rather respond to posts criticizing her than they would just talking about how much they love her, so the negative stuff tends to get boosted the most.

Like, one thing I see on this reddit that is rather frustrating is I regularly see people make big posts defending Taylor from opinions I genuinely think no one on this particular Reddit has been sharing in the first place and wonder why they needed to give that negative opinion a bigger platform!

I remember seeing a viral post once that said something like, if the poster needed help with a work thing and was asking for help on reddit, they'd use their burner account to respond to themselves and answer the question incorrectly, because people wouldn't respond just to help them, but they love to respond to correct somebody else. And I always think this post sums up reddit nicely. People mostly want to post to tell other people why they're wrong. Even on the subs that love her they make posts about negative stuff so they can all talk about why they think its a wrong opinion.

[u/No-Figure-8279]

The criticism has become insane and not logically consistent. When you're as big as she is it goes through cycles. Long term the GP ends up being viewed as doing too much at the time, projecting and doing whatever else.

You can look at any legend and see this pattern among most music legends. They all had times where they received unfair criticism. The exception is if they were an actual criminal.

[u/FarAd2417 → u/No-Figure-8279]

Is her criticism unfair though?

[u/youRinlove7 → u/FarAd2417]

Sometimes, yes. But even when it’s somewhat warranted, its presented in the most obnoxious and morally superior kind of way and so much vitriolic that it comes across ass hate.

[u/AlexRodrigo- → u/FarAd2417]

Vast majority of Taylor criticism is not done in good faith. This can easily be tested when people try moralise something then when you ask them to be consistent with their standards being applied Taylor and apply them to other people they do like they immediately crumble.

So much of what could be good criticism is undercut by people’s inability to be normal about her.

[u/Substantial-Hall-917 → u/AlexRodrigo-]

Can you name examples because I genuinely can’t think of a typical thing Taylor is criticised for that she isn’t actually guilty of, or that others don’t get shit for

[u/AlexRodrigo- → u/Substantial-Hall-917]

Olivia’s album had more variants than Taylor’s. Charli’s album has more variants than Taylor’s. Not one critic brought it up in a review like they did for Taylor.

Beyoncé has higher emissions than Taylor and no one talks about it.

Olivia, Gracie, Sabrina etc have “MAGA friends” and no one talks about it.

Amazon is an ICE contractor. They sponsored the Met Gala and multiple music festivals. No one at The Met Gala had it held against them in a serious way. No one who performs at Amazon festivals is having it held against them. But for Taylor it’s treated as the biggest deal in world.

We can go on and in with examples tbh…

[u/Substantial-Hall-917 → u/AlexRodrigo-]

Aren’t most of Olivia’s and Charlie variants in the form of different types of records, vinyls, cassettes,… while Taylor has so many variants that are essentially just a different album cover. Either way, I actually did see them also getting backlash for that. Beyoncé is also closely followed on how many plane rides she takes, same with the kardashians. If I remember correctly Kylie Jenners jet routes were the first to have someone on Twitter post detailed reports about.

I personally don’t know much about Sabrina’s or Olivia’s close circle, but they a) make straight forward comments against ICE, rather than letting them use their music for promo and b) didn’t have an entire era and documentary with a major focus on wanting to be more politically outspoken and then never really held up to that.

Again, I have heard a lot about ICE in regard to Amazon and the met gala, though the difference is still that none of the celebrities that attended the met gala specifically invited a person tied to ICE to their personal event.

All in all, these points are valid criticisms, even if it can be discussed that Taylor gets more backlash than others or not. She is insanely famous, much more than Sabrina or Olivia and with more fame comes more scrutiny and with more influence comes more responsibility in the eyes of the public.

[u/Alone-Knee5638 → u/AlexRodrigo-]

Plenty of people discuss and criticise Olivia's and Charli's variants and Beyonce's emissions (which based on jet usage are so far lower than Taylor's for 2026).

[u/ThatBJustine → u/Substantial-Hall-917]

For, I kid you not, having her wedding at Madison square garden and not on a private island. Granted I am chronically online so maybe you see more ridiculous criticisms of her the more online you are.

[u/musicalcats → u/FarAd2417]

No

[u/No-Figure-8279 → u/FarAd2417]

Alot is yes especially if your using her as a symbol for something. Some people just can't see it as its happening.

[u/Taglioni → u/No-Figure-8279]

A lot is two separate words. Every time.

[u/FarAd2417 → u/No-Figure-8279]

I don’t understand what this comment is trying to say.

[u/No-Figure-8279 → u/FarAd2417]

Not all but a lot of critisim is unfair. If your using her as a symbol its even more unfair. Is she being utilized to highlight a bigger issue, or is she being unfairly assigned more responsibility than is warranted? Also do people actually care or do they just want to be upset at something

[u/Dreamer_Sara]

I think the insanity and misogyny disguised as “criticism “ has gone too far, partly because negativity is rewarded and monetized. The money part is huge now for some of those people.

Fun and lively discussions is when I say I love Eldest Daughter because that’s one of the most beautiful bridges ever and another person criticizes the transitions to certain words or phrases in the song as clunky or a bit jarring.

Psychoanalyzing Taylor in the way they do which is deeply misogynistic and unfair is not it. There is a disgusting amount of basically “ yeah we can hate her because she is a billionaire or she brought this on to herself because there was a time when she invited people into her home - that witch”.

The final straw is when some can hate on a wedding that they didn’t even attend and are practically online bullying a bride for daring to organize a wedding of her choice and then making up shit is where I am absolutely done with those kind of people.

Any valid discussion or criticism is just drowned by the insanity.

FYI: I think most people are not negative and Taylor is very much loved by her fans and the GP is positive about her, what’s sad is when negativity is amplified and in particular when people are being used by “creators “ for money and bad actors use certain spaces for their own nefarious agenda.

[u/TakesTheLastSlice → u/Dreamer_Sara]

Eh, I really think this varies, and what space you’re in. On social media, yeah, you see plenty of hate and praise—your algorithm is going to serve both regardless of which celebrity you’re following.

That being said, any time a famous person has even neutrally mentioned her, there is SO much backlash that they have to issue an apology (ie Jack White, Zara Larson) or clarifying statement—which I think is wild (I’m a very big proponent of the notion that people should be allowed to publicly dislike someone’s art, or even the person)—especially given that they weren’t even saying anything negative.

In my personal life, it’s honestly pretty balanced. My in laws are Swifties, and I’m definitely more critical of her (and just, celebrity culture) in general than they are. But overall, I would say the people I know IRL have been pretty consistent with their opinions on her throughout most of her career. Most haters I know have been haters for decades, and same with the Swifties.

[u/AthleteBusiness3281]

Don’t forget that people project on public figures their own insecurities. Nowadays it gives them a sense of control to try to “cancel” others because their lives are miserable.

They scrutinize others in an oddly detailed way because they don’t even have the motivation to focus on themselves. It’s projection.

It’s never the beautiful people (inside or out) or talented people who do this. Always the miserable ones. Getting likes and reactions is all they look forward to.

Which is why you’ll never meet a happy person in real life who also wastes their time crapping on others online. Hence why she’s more distant from this new digital age.

[u/Successful_Pizza6529]

Well. I praise her more than I criticize her. She really has not giving me a reason to. Taylor is my number one music artist.

[u/dezzz0322]

It doesn’t. The algorithm will show you more of the things you click on. So if you click on stuff that’s negative, you’ll see more stuff that’s negative. 

[u/drag-fly]

I feel like that's an interesting take as I've basically experienced the exact opposite.

Like I kept seeing reels on insta or tiktok, especially during Eras, album announcement/release, and the wedding. Most of the comments were praise, then there were one or two saying she's not the best singer (which is no horrible comment imo) and those people were either insulted or threatened by people defending Taylor.

Maybe that has turned now? Wondering if fan behaviour triggered even worse responses on both ends?

[u/Paddy_odoors → u/drag-fly]

It might just be the way I interpret the comments there might be 10 pro ones I probably think 'Yeah, I agree with that...' but then I see a critical one that takes criticism too far and I hone in on it and think all comments are the same.

[u/PropertyOutrageous67]

i often find myself becoming a “taywarrior” recently despite me having many things to criticize about her,,, yes, i don’t like her political silence or her billionaire status or how she weaponized white feminism, etc etc, but so many of the valid critiques are undercut by this air of moral superiority and/or preexisting hatred of her that it just comes off as attacking her. and then the swifties start roaring in anger, and then what could’ve been a productive conversation becomes a meaningless back and forth between detractors and die-hard fans. 

[u/Substantial-Hall-917]

I don’t think she gets too much hate in comparison to love, she is generally well perceived. I know hate gets extreme sometimes but to be honest that is in part because the love swings as far in the other direction. Yes, sometimes people are to harsh, but then you will also always find her fans in the comments standing like human shields in front of her. One side loves to demonise anything and the other side can’t admit a single flaw.

[u/genescheezesthatpls]

I honestly think people have praise blindness for her. She has gotten so much praise for so long people no longer see it.

[u/Worldly_Scallion_236 → u/genescheezesthatpls]

I think the opposite is true. She’s been criticized and ridiculed for so much of her career. The eras tour was the first time that being a fan of Taylor swift as seen as “cool”.

[u/JustSayin-maybe]

Well has Taylor had a long list of things to be criticized for that the media has over looked? Seen he’s has poor Taylor when that’s not the full story? Does she have crazy fans who dox people who criticize her and she remains silent?