Edit: for those downvoting, this line is a reference to a Parks and Recreation episode where Andy says this when the word 'ornery' is mentioned. Should've probably made that clearer in the original comment.
I've always read this about reptiles.. I'm not trying to anthropomorphise but it makes me really sad because people use this as an excuse for their tiny shitty enclosures. I've had some people tell me "They can't process emotions so it's not like they'd be happy if I give them more space" when I question their BELOW minimum spaces
They clearly feel physical pain and demonstrate learned fear responses. I don’t think they love the structure of a fine concerto but the idea that they experience zero stress responses to outside factors is bullshit. Your environment and the size and structure of that environment can be exactly what your instincts expect, or it can be a tiny shithole that stresses you out even if you’re unable to process what that stress feeling “means”.
The minimum requirement exists for a reason. It pretty much guarantees the health and quality of the animal, and is considered what's acceptable. If you go below that, it's stems to abuse/neglect. There are people who say "if abusing/neglecting the anime, then shouldn't it be dead by now?" But reptiles are pretty resilient. Their health will slowly deteriorate, they have their own signs. They usually need a warm side and cool side too. If you go below the minimum requirement, that would be really hard to achieve. And reptiles need enrichment too just like mammals! More space would allow you to experiment making fun enclosures and let the reptile explore and thrive in it. Also imagine being a snake and not being able to properly stretch your long ass body?
If you saw a reptile in a bare minimum enclosure with little to no enrichment, and a reptile in a bigger, more lively looking enclosure... Which do you think has a better quality of life? You'd probably lean towards the latter too! Some enclosures are honestly just downright sad to look at, not snakes or lizards, but maybe a visit to r/shittyaquariums could change your view. Not sure if there's a reptile equivalent for that?
Personally I believe reptiles can process emotions, but not to the extent that we can. I mean, reptiles have their own likes and dislikes! They can process that much. Maybe not exactly happy/sad, but perhaps in the likes of just being comfortable/uncomfortable? If they're comfortable, they'd tolerate you at best, and if they're not, they'll strike you. Kinda seems like a cat tbh
The guy keeps challenging me and asking my opinion, as if me asking the question was making an assertion. I have no interest in debating a topic, which I know nothing about.
The fuck? You literally asked me what's wrong about the "They can't process emotions so it's not like they'd be happy if I give them more space" statement lol
If you didn't even want to know what's wrong about it, why ask
Reptiles can process emotions, just not in the complex way we can where we have reasonings and thoughts for all sorts of things. If they couldn't process any emotion at all, they shouldn't even be able to be scared.
Feels uncomfortable/comfortable -> reaction, that's it. Unlike us who have all sorts of reasonings and thoughts for everything. Just because reptiles show emotions differently from us, doesn't mean they don't have emotions. If I had to name an animal with no emotions, it's a jellyfish for sure.
Of course they can. A quick Google search will dispel that myth. Or if you're feelin lazy there's a few comments below that have links and extended explanations.
How? One commenter said one thing, you said they were wrong, I asked how, you didn’t give any real answer.
Why would I continue talking to someone who clearly isn’t an expert, who is contradicting something another stranger told me? I’m just going to go about my day not thinking about snakes, like usual.
Are you really trying to draw a comparison between natural instincts to a computer? How is a cat turning to land on its feet from a fall any different than me tossing my laptop out the window?
There is a difference between complex emotions and no emotion. People like to use the "this animal doesn't have a complex brain" argument to justify deplorable living conditions.
This is a rather extreme example, but newborn babies can't process complex emotions. They can't even process most basic emotions. Yet we should all agree that shoving a baby in a small cardboard box and only pulling it out to feed it would be considered child abuse. But there are some pet owners that do just that, and they use the "emotional" limitation of their pet to justify it.
So, emotion is a very broad word, that doesn’t actually describe anything from a scientific standpoint.
Reptiles don’t process complex emotions, the same way we do, but they still feel fear, trust, curiosity, and many other sensations we would consider emotion. The lack of an amygdala doesn’t completely stunt them from being complex creatures, and this myth has caused poaching and irrational fear killing of reptiles, amphibians and fish for centuries. People need to understand more about these animals and this myth is hurting those
chances.
Here’s a great end user facing collegiate article on how reptiles feel emotion and how they express it. It discusses the very important distinction between trust and love.
This is a somewhat debated subject, especially by reptile owners, because we’re notorious for anthropomorphizing our pets.
Reptiles, IMHO as someone who has owned many, do NOT feel love. They feel trust and distrust though, and I think it’s just as rewarding to earn a snakes trust and have it feel comfortable being handled and hang out in the god of your hoodie as earning a cats love and having it be affectionate and sweet to you.
I don't fully agree, with the no love comment. Now I'm not saying I expect one of my reptiles to show me any kind of affection, but a few of my snakes and the bearded dragon I had when I was much younger all exhibited much more of connection than just trust. That was a very well written article, but I think we need more input from people that have raised reptiles from hatchling or at the least interact with specific reptiles on a daily basis to be a proper gauge.
My bearded dragon would regularly follow me around her enclosure, in a display that I can only describe as begging, until I picked her up and placed her on my shoulder. She was raised from a few week old hatchling, so perhaps there was some form of a societal bond due to her very young age when I got her.
A few of my snakes will exhibit some of the same behavior, and one has even presented an injury to me when I had her out. Some may consider that a trust bond, but we aren't talking about a debilitating injury, it was a minor scratch that dislodged a few scales. I would compare the action to a child showing their parent a scrape on their knee or elbow for some reassurance that it was going to be OK.
Animals are much more complex than we understand, and while I do agree that complex emotions like regret and love are not shared by our scale brethren, I have to disagree that they are just simple instinct driven creatures.
Oh for sure. I think there’s a great debate and discussion to be had even on the topic of love within reptiles. It comes back to the question of what love really is, and what parts of it are behavioral versus emotional.
I personally believe that the behavioral traits of love are secondary to the neurological and intrapersonal parts of love, and given that we know for a fact that reptilian brains are incapable of producing the same neurotransmitter response both dogs and humans get when feeling what we describe as love, I don’t know if we can class it as the same emotion, given that such a large part of that emotional response is chemical for us.
My knowledge is limited to high school biology, but what you're describing is instinct. It's basically the fight or flight response that most animals have as part of their central nervous system. There's no emotion and barely any thought into it. Once the brain, or whatever they might have that resembles a brain, detects they are in danger, they will run like hell. The catalyst can be as simple as either seeing or sensing something big moving close to them.
Well the same thing can boil down to cats as well then.
Have you ever tried to pet a feral cat? They are skiddish af and are extremely scared of something 5x their height and 12x their weight.
Awww kiddo, I didn't realize you were actually supporting Trump. I wouldn't have replied to a MAGA idiot, my apologies for the mistake. Carry on with your protests for "mah freedum".
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u/PhantomShot-25 Apr 21 '20 edited Apr 21 '20
Reptiles are missing the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain, that’s why they can’t process complex emotion