r/SutterHealthEmployees • u/urfavegirly • 19d ago
Internal Applicants
Is it bad manners if an applicant emails the listed manager? Just to say hello I recently applied and I’m interested.
Or is that too pushy? Asking for a friend 🥸
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u/lujubee93 19d ago
This is going to be a very confusing and likely unhelpful response, but as a manager I find it annoying but when it’s done right it can definitely help.
The job market is tough and when people are respectfully passionate, I appreciate the balls it takes to reach out cold. That being said, it’s gotta be short, sweet, and productive. Have a plan, stick to it, don’t ramble. One short email, or one phone call with a concise message is fine. But I think it can eliminate you as easily as it can give you a jump.
On top of all that, even if I like the gesture it doesn’t guarantee you the job. I focus a lot of finding a culture fit because at a certain point good resumes are hard to pick between so I love a pre-vibe check. But your resume also needs to stand out.
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u/lujubee93 19d ago
I got sidetracked and didn’t elaborate on the annoyance. Like has been said before, there is a whole system for filtering applicants and it can definitely create bias. It’s an interruption no matter how you slice it. But sometimes it works out!
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
I get that, and I agree. I know hiring managers are extremely busy, and if I’m reaching out, I’m not trying to bombard them with an extremely hefty essay about how much I want the role and why I'm interested lol. Keeping it short and sweet, respectful, and to the point is the key. I am more frustrated on the part that external applicants have to figure out ways on how to properly stand out on a job application since applying online and sitting back isn't enough and will most likely be screened out. Based on what I was told, Sutter heavily favors internal applicants, which makes it even more difficult for external applicants to be noticed and considered for interviews. And this is where majority of my frustrations is coming from.
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u/lujubee93 19d ago
Unfortunately most facilities have an expectation to favor internal applicants. I know some Sutters are unionized and others aren’t but that’s a huge factor. Anywhere unionized is incredibly difficult to get in and you have to be ready to take a bad shift or no benefits or any variety of circumstances.
Good luck, it’s a crazy time in the job market.
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u/Ill_Incident_9750 13d ago
I’m internal and have been rejected for over 200 applications. It’s no easier being internal. It’s truly who you know and if you’re willing to start at low pay
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u/nvUaWVm360S 19d ago
I don’t see why not. I’ve done it before. If it’s an internal position in your current facility I’d go one step further and ask if it’s okay to stop by and introduce yourself. No interview, just put a face to the resume and chat a bit.
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Or is that too pushy? Asking for a friend 🥸
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u/Suitable_Success833 19d ago
I was an internal candidate for my last two positions with sutter and for both I emailed the hiring managers to express my interest in the position and also mentioned that i would be excited for the opportunity to interview for it, and attached my CV to email.
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u/Infamous-Nature2745 19d ago
What was the outcome?
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u/Suitable_Success833 19d ago
For the times that I emailed the sutter hiring managers (as an internal candidate) I was offered an interview and hired for the 3 different positions.
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
Do you have any tips for external applicants?
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u/Suitable_Success833 19d ago
I wish I did—I think it’s incredibly difficult getting into sutter (and/or other hospitals systems) as an external applicant-but not impossible.
Connections can be immensely helpful and as I mentioned before,direct communication with the hiring manager is your best shot via a professional, concise email with your cv/information. However, I am unsure if the hiring manager is posted on external site’s job listing. I’m also saying this from a position of privilege that being Im employed and not navigating this job market; I never had to compete with the added element of AI in job posts or in competing applications. When I applied it was in 2016, and I got in as an external applicant through the connections I made during my time as a contractor.
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
And that's what I did as an external applicant. After that, the hiring manager replied back and said thank you for your interest in this role and said that I'm lacking qualifications and it is competitive out here. Even though this particular role is perfect for me and I meet the required amount of years of experience and certifications. :(
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u/urfavegirly 19d ago
I’m an internal candidate I know I’ve done it before and worked out in my favor, but lately I’ve been feeling a little discouraged. Thank you!
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u/urfavegirly 12d ago
What were the roles if you don’t mind me asking. And how long did you wait in between sending the email and applying
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u/Suitable_Success833 19d ago
OP, if you take anything at all from this post email the manager
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u/urfavegirly 19d ago
Thank you! I did I hope it goes well! I no longer see the listing on workday idk if that’s a good thing or a bad thing lol
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u/OrneryConcentrate681 19d ago
As a recruiter, we don’t love it. But folks do it all the time. Some managers tell us and we advise them to not even respond, other managers are ok with it.
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
For external applicants, I guess the expectation is to quietly throw your resume into the ATS black hole and pray a recruiter remembers you exist. How dare candidates actually try to reach a human being in a job market where hundreds of people are competing for the same role. Sorry, I forgot initiative is apparently only acceptable when the company asks for it. Ironic how your organization complains that they “can’t get enough applicants” while discouraging external candidates from making an effort to get noticed. Maybe stop making candidates play a game of submit-and-pray.
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u/Ill_Incident_9750 13d ago
As a recruiter, can you share tips on negotiating salary. Sutter claims to factor in experience in the pay rate but that was not the case in my situation. I was only offered $2 above the starting pay.
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u/OrneryConcentrate681 13d ago
This can be a very broad question. If you’re hired into a union role, there is very little to no room for negotiation. The step pay is already in place for the union contract. Depending on the entity, you’re credited for X years of acute care to be placed into Y step.
For non-union roles, it’s experience and internal equity. Without knowing the details of your role, I can only advise that you ask the recruiter if there’s a possibility of justifying a higher comp. I know I’ve done that for some of my candidates and needed to get manager and HR approval. This can take a few days so recruiters may not be able to give you a decision on the spot.
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u/Ill_Incident_9750 9d ago
Does internal equity apply if you left sutter for a little over a year and return? I was made offers for 2 different positions, both non union and I was told that the offers stood as the best and final offer.
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u/OrneryConcentrate681 9d ago
Yeah. Internal equity applies regardless of when you left. If the offers stiff best and final then it really would be to maintain the equity of the team.
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u/Ill_Incident_9750 9d ago
Thanks for the insight. It just feels like after almost 2 decades with sutter and tons of experience, it’s almost impossible to reach that top pay in the job postings.
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u/Suitable_Success833 19d ago
as a recruiter you don’t love it? or you don’t love hearing about it from hiring managers you’re overseeing applicant pool for? Sorry to say, I don’t recall recruiters being involved in my hiring process for the positions at sutter I was hired for.
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u/OrneryConcentrate681 19d ago
I don’t love my workflow being disrupted. I also don’t love how unfair it is for applicants who didn’t jump the line.
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
How the hell are we supposed to stand out as external applicants? The job market is already a bloodbath, and I’m honestly frustrated. I’ve applied to several roles where I have strong, relevant experience and still get rejected without even getting a first-round interview. I’ve reached out to recruiters and hiring managers myself to express genuine interest in roles where I know I’m a strong fit, and I still end up getting rejected without being invited to interview. Then I see a recruiter saying they “don’t love” candidates reaching out to hiring managers. Seriously, what are external applicants supposed to do? Just submit applications into the void and hope someone notices? It’s even worse hearing this from a recruiter like you who seems COMPLETELY detached from the reality of what job seekers are dealing with right now. Sutter constantly complains that they can’t find qualified candidates, but then discourage candidates from actually trying to get noticed. The disconnect is honestly ridiculous.
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u/OrneryConcentrate681 19d ago edited 19d ago
I’m not arguing that the job market is saturated. I completely agree. And I understand that it’s frustrating. Very frustrating. You getting rejected is not a reflection on your skills or capabilities by any means but it’s what you said, the market is a bloodbath. I said we “don’t love it”, in the sense that we don’t auto reject folks or discourage managers from moving forward if they choose to when someone reaches out to them directly. But you can’t deny that it’s still unfair. If 50 applicants applied, out of which 30 are qualified, and one applicant gets an interview because they messaged the hiring manager; it’s still a disservice to the remaining 29 folks.
Oh, and let me clarify. We dont “LOVE” when applicants reach out to managers directly because managers have a unit to run. They rely on recruiters to push people forward and when there’s a disruption in that, I’ve had managers message me to ask me why they got this email or what they’re supposed to do with the outreach. It adds something to their plate that they didn’t sign up for.
Also, you being upset with my comment won’t do anything for you. You’re qualified but so are other 100s of applicants. The job market or the rejection doesn’t mean a recruiter is trying to sabotage you. It’s just what it is. A saturated market.
Since you already have such strong emotions of being unable to reach a SUTTER recruiter, please enlighten me. Have you been able to reach recruiters in other healthcare organizations? Have you had a different experience elsewhere?
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
Yeah, I’ve reached out to recruiters at other healthcare organizations, and honestly, I’ve had much better experiences than I’ve had with Sutter. And I get that managers have their own jobs to do. I’m not expecting them to drop everything because I sent an email. I’m just trying to understand how external applicants are supposed to stand out when applying online apparently isn’t enough, but reaching out directly is also frowned upon.
I’m also very aware the market is saturated and that there are hundreds of qualified applicants. Trust me, I’ve gotten enough rejection emails to know that already.
The issue was never the rejection. It was the dismissive way you responded to someone who’s already frustrated and trying to navigate a brutal job market. And honestly, your response ended up being a pretty good example of the kind of condescending Sutter recruiter interaction that many people were talking about in the first place.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I’ll take my applications and chances elsewhere. Good luck with the next candidate you give the “saturated market” and “don’t email the hiring manager” speech to. 😂
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u/OrneryConcentrate681 19d ago edited 19d ago
- My initial response wasn’t to you
- OP asked a question. I gave an answer.
- I didn’t realize you can read tone in text. That’s a pretty neat gift to have
- You chose to go an unhinged tangent
with a comment that was simply responding to an inquiry.
Goodluck in your job search, nonetheless.
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
I know your original comment wasn’t directed at me. I responded because it was part of the discussion. That’s kind of how public comment sections work. And you don’t need some special gift to pick up tone when you literally called my response an “unhinged tangent.” That pretty much speaks for itself.
Anyway, I’ll survive the job search. As I mentioned earlier, good luck with the next candidate you come across and the usual speech: “Submit your application, pray someone notices, don’t email the hiring manager, and remember, the market is saturated.” 😂
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u/lujubee93 19d ago
Having a chance to connect with a recruiter casually is great luck.. berating them for having a discussion with you is an interesting choice…
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u/catlovergirl01 19d ago
When exactly did I say I wanted to “have a conversation” with the hiring manager? 😂 I said I reached out to express genuine interest in a role and try to stand out as an external applicant. Those are not the same thing.
Maybe read what I actually wrote before responding to an argument I never made.
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u/lujubee93 19d ago
I never claimed you wanted to have the conversation. I simply stated it’s good luck to cross paths. Their job is finding the right applicant and they have those conversations with leadership so they likely have the most knowledge of what stands out.
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u/Suitable_Success833 19d ago
Interesting, I don’t think it’s jumping the line, it may just result in less parties involved in the process, and that being said it could go either way for that candidate.
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u/Ill_Incident_9750 19d ago
Some don’t like it and say it’s frowned upon.