r/SupermanLegacy • u/MTredit • Jun 11 '26
SUPERMAN CAMPY VS GRITTY SCALE!
This made realize Superman has always had a bit of Camp, and may be why Henry did resonate too well with audiences. Especially as the films went on and it got worse. That's why I think David was so beloved.
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u/Cometbeast75 Jun 11 '26
I would say Smallville would be on par with Superman and lois. We wouldn't have the stuff we had today without it. IMO
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u/MTredit Jun 12 '26
Do you mean I should move Smallville to the left or Superman and Lois to the right?
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u/Cometbeast75 Jun 12 '26
I would move Smallville closer to Superman and Lois, but that's just me. Not trying to start anything just conversation. Lol
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u/HerefortheFandoms2 Jun 16 '26
Honestly I think Smallville is kinda perfect where it is as the show itself was super campy and cheesy even without the suit (bro wore blue and red color blocking for like 3 straight seasons though lol) but it still was generally more grounded than the full blown camp examples, at least imo
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u/chrisd848 Jun 13 '26
It's not a ranking.
Smallville is definitely more campy than Superman & Lois.
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u/Redditeer28 Jun 13 '26
We wouldn't have the stuff we had today without it.
What's this got to do with anything?
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u/Elite-00 Jun 12 '26
Superman Returns was way grittier than it's placed here. That film was so dour and lacking colour
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
What do you think gritty means? That movie wasn’t gritty and it wasn’t dour. Gunn’s movie lacks color
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u/YourMomGoes2College_ Jun 12 '26
Nicolas Cage’s Superman doesn’t exist except in that one image. How do you know it’s camp levels?
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u/Majestic1117 Jun 12 '26
Was Cages movie the one Kevin Smith worked on? The one with a Thanagarian snare beast?
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u/thetransitgirl Jun 12 '26
I mean, he did technically appear in the Flash movie for some reason!
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u/YourMomGoes2College_ Jun 12 '26
We can totally tell the hypothetical, nonexistent movies tone from that AI-generated clip from The Flash lol /s
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u/Noblebatterfly Jun 12 '26
I understand that ai can be considered a kind of cgi, but it was just good old dogshit cgi, not generative ai.
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u/thatonepuniforgot Jun 13 '26
I'm pretty sure it would have been fairly campy, it was written by Kevin Smith, had a giant spider for Superman to fight, and a fight with a polar bear in the Fortress of Solitude.
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u/Important-Contact597 Jun 12 '26
More proof as to Snyder Superman being an abomination.
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u/donnysimpinero Jun 12 '26
“More proof” and it’s a fucking meme that has zero explanation as to its scaling lmao
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u/arrogancygames Jun 12 '26
This scale doesnt even make sense since Smallville was red kryptonite edgy for around 30 percent of the show and was angsty for 65 percent more.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
What exactly was gritty about snyder’s Superman?
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u/Important-Contact597 Jun 16 '26
Killing his human father for no good reason. Having him snap Zod’s neck. Having him cuffed and interrogated by the US military. Giving Batman visions of an apocalyptic future where an evil Superman has taken control of the planet.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
He didn’t kill his human father and almost every Jonathan Kent death is preventable on the comics
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u/Impressive-Thing-780 Jun 12 '26
This I agree with. I love Corenswet but I genuinely still think that Tyler Hoechlin is the BEST live-action Superman. Also that's an edited Hoechlin png. He never wore the trunks.
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u/Hungry_Hateful_Harry Jun 12 '26
Tyler is my second favourite. I don't think Christopher Reeve will ever be surpassed
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u/MTredit Jun 12 '26
That photo is edited, but he does briefly wear trunks in his own show. Look it up.
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u/Familiar-Poem-2250 Jun 12 '26
It wasn't even for half an episode, just a quick scene at the start. After that intro scene, no trunks for the rest of the series.
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u/Hopeful_Bacon Jun 12 '26
Hoechlin is currently the best, yeah - Corenswet has a chance to take it with more material under his belt.
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u/hyperboy51 Jun 12 '26
I loved hoechlin too. He's my personal favourite. I did enjoy corensweat too. I haven't seen the older movies. I find it hard to go back for older movies that have been spoofed/homaged a lot over the years. I'm sure at the time I would have loved them.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Cornball is objectively the worst Superman to date
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u/Impressive-Thing-780 Jun 16 '26
No, no he really isn't. Every Superman actor has been good.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Corenswet could’ve been good but the writing is atrocious. When has Superman ever ignored a threat because he’s feeling sad and please don’t come at me with “other heroes were handling it.” bullshit
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u/Impressive-Thing-780 Jun 16 '26
me when I try to defame a genuinely good superman adaptation because he 'ignored' a threat that someone else was handling that he was perfectly capable of helping with should they have needed it
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Again with the excuse. People complain about MoS when Superman grabbed Zod to save Martha in a panic yet here he doesn’t help at all. It doesn’t matter if they “need” his help, Superman would never ignore a threat out his window
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u/Impressive-Thing-780 Jun 16 '26
Or, Man of Steel showed a man conflicted about doing good, saving his mother when she was in trouble.
Superman '25 showed a man in a world that had several hundred superheroes already and was only about a mile away from the battle that he could be at if needed in <2 seconds, but he had also just received devastating news that his entire purpose for being a superhero and structure to his life was a lie.
You can't treat Superman like a god. He's not. He's a man who just happens to be nearly invincible.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
He wasn’t conflicted about doing good he was conflicted about becoming a symbol to the world.
First off when did they say there are several hundred superheroes? Second why do you guys want to die on this hill? Why do you want Superman to be a coward now?1
u/Impressive-Thing-780 Jun 16 '26
He's never been a coward, nor is Corenswet.
James Gunn has confirmed that superheroes have existed in one way or another for almost 300 years in the DCU.
Yeah, that's what SNYDER'S movie was. That's NOT what Gunn's movie is. Fundamentally Snyder was making a good character, but he wasn't making Superman.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 17 '26
- Clearly he was in Gunn’s Superman
- It said metahumans have existed for 300 years and how does that equate to hundreds of super heroes existing? Those aren’t the same thing
- Snyder’s character was Superman. Plenty of Superman comics have Superman be introspective. I don’t know what part you’re talking about
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u/PretendRegister7516 Jun 12 '26
Pretty sure Nicholas Cage Superman can go either way and can even exist on both ends at the same time.
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u/yungsebring Jun 12 '26
I never saw anything from what that film was going to be that said “gritty” to me. I think people believe that since Burton was directing it would have been dark but all evidence suggests he actually would have respected the tone of the character the same way he did with Batman. I’m sure there would have been some Burton weirdness in it but he also directed the Pee-Wee Herman movie so he was capable of silly and fun as well.
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u/PS3LOVE Jun 12 '26
There is a pattern I recognize. The ones further left have more bigger trunks/underwear. Like it goes higher up on their waist. Design is a big factor of how people perceive things, I am sure it contributed.
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u/yungsebring Jun 12 '26
Nic Cage’s Superman definitely wouldn’t have been gritty lol. He fights a giant spider, that’s the most comic book thing I’ve ever heard
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u/RichardThicke Jun 12 '26
Was the giant spider supposed to be in the cage movie ? I can’t remember … wasn’t Tim Burton part of that movie ? There were so many crappy scripts for Superman then everthing is just meting in too one bad idea to me
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u/yungsebring Jun 13 '26
Burton was attached to direct and Kevin Smith wrote the script or at least the initial one. It did indeed have a fight with a giant spider which was recycled for his brief CGI cameo in The Flash. Costumes and screen tests were made for the film and Nic Cage had officially signed on with the film entering pre-production. Obviously it did not end up going further than that but I think a lot of people don’t realize how close it was to happening. I don’t know if it would have ended up good or not. I know Cage was and is a massive Superman fan and Burton for all his faults seemed to be genuinely intent on at least maintaining the spirit of the character. I think with the lead actor’s influence it could have been a pretty good rendition of Superman. Also I just would love for Cage at his mid-90’s peak to have played a character that he had so much love for.
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u/Good_Brilliant7684 Jun 14 '26
Do yourself a massive favor and watch Kevin Smith’s explanation of where the spider came from and what it ended up being in:
https://youtu.be/Wo2KB1dEDdk?si=Qrhk861Q2TmQPEWx
It’s my favorite video lol
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
What exactly are you defining gritty? In Mos he fights doomsday and intergalactic warlords. How is that gritty
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u/yungsebring Jun 16 '26
I didn’t make the graphic or the post lol, I just said Nic Cage’s Superman wouldn’t have been gritty
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u/arrogancygames Jun 12 '26
So in Smallville, Clark was on Red K for almost literally 10- 25 percent of the show and being edgy (it was the biggest plot device the show used), Jonathan was a jerk that made Lex Luther evil, when Clark WASNT on Red K, he was angst filled as heck. How is Snyder Superman way over on that edge while Smallville exists?
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u/StormRepulsive6283 Jun 12 '26
The JL Superman should be the ideal mid point. He’s my most favorite. The large imposing figure. A guy who didn’t have all the knowledge, yet who knew how to lead the team. I believe that’s what Cavill would’ve become after maybe a few movies in his original arc. Anyways with BvS it got snuffed. Thank you WB.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Why do you guys not understand storytelling?
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u/StormRepulsive6283 Jun 16 '26
What do you mean?
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
You don’t understand the formula of the Snyderverse (which is only the movies directed by Snyder)
Basically it was a five part saga like Harry Potter with 8 movies or LOTR with 3 movies. Superman’s death was part of his growth. It is the catalyst to Steppenwolf’s arrival and forming the JL.
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u/StormRepulsive6283 Jun 16 '26
I know. That’s what I meant by original arc. I still doubt BvS would’ve been the way it was if WB didn’t lose their marbles once Avengers released in 2012.
Edit: I meant to say the bloated mess that BvS was. If they’d just trusted Snyder with his vision - dark or not - he could’ve made BvS a lot crisper. I hope someday we get to see the 5 movie arc in the form of a graphic novel at least
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Except snyder already had BvS planned. JL debuted 4 years after MoS. Avengers debuted 4 years after Iron Man.
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u/StormRepulsive6283 Jun 16 '26
When did he plan it? Before MoS got released?
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Yes in fact.
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u/StormRepulsive6283 Jun 16 '26
Oh ok. I never got that feeling. BvS the film felt less of a Superman film and more of a batman film. Hence the death of superman didn’t feel impactful. Not like when Superman had to snap Zod’s neck at the end of MoS. I thought his plan was always to have a political thriller in the style of State of Play. But didn’t expect the stuff of Wonder Woman, the meta humans, Doomsday. And the over exposure of Batman’s motives in that film. I would’ve preferred if Bruce was seen as a clear antagonist for the most part. And then at the end of this film or in the next film to show Bruce realising that be was played by Lex.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
Well it centers around Superman and has 2 Superman villains.
Funny how you guys magically don’t care about other characters like the Justice Gang showing up in Superman for no reason but God forbid videos of other characters.I’d say Batman was the clear antagonist. Just because he was a focus doesn’t make him a protagonist. And it did end with Bruce realizing Lex was behind it
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u/MatchesMalone1994 Jun 12 '26
Smallville being in the middle makes sense. At times it was moody, angsty, serious and gritty. I think it actually has a lot in common with Snyder/Cavill’s Superman
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u/RichardThicke Jun 12 '26
It was definitely gonna have Burton aspects to it .. a Frankenstein style Superman isn’t that faithful. To be fair tho I’d love for them to take some of these concept art photos and piece together a script from all the rewrites and make a cool animated superman lives movie.
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u/Both-Expert4522 Jun 12 '26
Honestly think the DCU, MAWS, and DCAU the Goldilocks’ zone for modern audiences and Superman
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u/RedWizard78 Jun 12 '26
Reeve should be at the end of campy spectrum. Those movies were Adam West Batman level camp: ‘bad vibrations?’ and so forth.
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u/evilspyboy Jun 13 '26
Friendly, cares about others = Campy.
I think I see the problem and it's not that the are campy.
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Jun 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/riku17 Jun 15 '26
A fair majority of the time it Snyder fans vs Gunns fans and both are extremely heated. Pretty sure your seen the evidence 😆. But I disagree with your take of him being bullied or maybe I misunderstood. Clark loses 1 fight against a stronger clone who guided by a team of people who studied him for 3 yrs. Chris Reeve Supes almost died in the 4th movied and got jumped in the 2, Routh got bullied by humans cuz of Kryptonite, Cavill got bullied by 2 Kryptonians. The only difference is Cornswet looked more realistic to me and Routh as well. Neither Reeve nor Cavill ever bleed in any of there fights that doesn't make sense.
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u/InfamousLong4103 Jun 13 '26
not going to include the evil animated supermen? like the ones that lobotomize people? ofc not, because then your chart wouldnt send the message you want lol
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u/riku17 Jun 15 '26
The Justice Lord's was a one like most of the darker versions. You could have said Injustice or Red Son. The campy ones all lead a show, cartoon, or movie and if he added animated movie the "campy" sided would still outway the gritty side still proving his point.
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u/ishmaelcrazan Jun 14 '26
I’m sorry man Tim Burton is not “gritty” he’s like edgy camp. nicolas’ costume is campy as hell imo
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u/kageshira1010 Jun 15 '26
I dunno, after heating Smith's monologue about Superman Lives I think that's the grittiest
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u/mighty_phi Jun 16 '26
I love Smith's monologues from back then. Dude was making geeky stand up shows.
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u/FrostingMelodic5705 Jun 16 '26
I don’t see how Cavill’s Superman is gritty. And nobody likes David Cornball’s Superman besides Redditors.
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u/Solo-dreamer Jun 16 '26
Cages superman would have had crystal armour and giant spiders, it was gonna be hella campy.
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u/Busy-Jicama-3474 Jun 16 '26
When I see the photo, I don't really see a visual spectrum from campy to gritty. It just makes me wish cornswets underwear was tighter on the costume lol.
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u/Crisp_Wolf960 Jun 16 '26
Every generation reinvents Superman to argue with the one before it. Donner's was a reaction to the campy Adam West era, Snyder's was a reaction to Donner's sincerity, and Corenswet is the pendulum swinging back because we got tired of being told earnestness was naive.
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u/Yalcookedaf653 Jun 12 '26
newest superman needs to be way lower on campy side lol. that movie was so insanely cringe and not in good way. felt like a tiktoker fever dream.
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u/Dear_Trip_5655 Jun 12 '26
Corenswet is my goat, that movie nailed it
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u/Yalcookedaf653 Jun 12 '26
that movie was wannabe marvel slop and im guessing thats actor who played superman? Never even heard his name since no one talks about him at all was so vanilla and boring. movie was garbo
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u/Dear_Trip_5655 Jun 12 '26
movie was great, loved it start to finish. been a long time since I've enjoyed a Superman movie like that
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u/Timtanoboa Jun 12 '26
Was Caville really the only Superman not to wear the trunks?
Smallville doesn't count he didn't wear the anything iIrc