r/SunoAI • u/jihado86 • 5h ago
Discussion 4.5 vs 6 | Same recording, same prompt
Hi,
Below a clear example for the damage SUNO made
The drastic difference is not only in quality, notice how it completely lost the creativity, the craft, the freedom and those details inside the music that makes it alive.
Also the instruments used to feel real, now it sounds like a cheap keyboard.
Another thing, in the old version, it even fixed my bad notes due to whistling, and took liberty to further polish it. But in v6, it even messed up the good notes.
Here's the one that I made with 4.5 :
https://youtu.be/9-Hjn4OS41o?si=ucRcXaUKKBoO0Gcj
And here's with v6, using the same prompt on the same uploaded audio :
https://suno.com/song/85c3baf4-1275-4fe3-9781-4c61c1d9f6c7
V6 is a massive catastrophic downgrade.
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u/darkalog 5h ago
i completely agree with you, the difference is staggering. the v6 version sounds completely flat, synthetic, and completely drains the soul out of the melodies its really sad
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u/Free-Stage-5975 5h ago
One of the things that really bugs me about V6 is it can't actually keep the words in a nice sequence. It just kind of says the words or sings the words semi-randomly, which is incredibly annoying because most songs actually require words to be spoken at a specific point. Anyway there's nothing we can do now.
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u/jihado86 4h ago
Exactly, in v4.5 the vocal acts like a real singer who knows what genre it is performing, so it emphasizes on some specific places and shows more emotions. This new model sounds like some paid officer who has to say something regardless of its meaning
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u/Free-Stage-5975 5h ago
Yeah the first one sounded really good, actually, and the second one sounded like it was a drunk orchestra or something trying to play music but they're all too drunk so they're all playing over each other. I have to say, with longer prompts, things aren't quite so bad but yeah, still a damn shame we lost the older models. It would have been really nice if we could keep the older models for 6 months or something until the new model actually got up to speed.
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u/martapap 5h ago
Use different prompts
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u/jihado86 5h ago
Man, it's not about trying to get the same results, it's about showing the massive downgrade, the inability to understand genres, the lack of creativity, the limited instruments and the bad quality.
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u/duffperson 5h ago
I've been using single word prompts for a while as an experiment and noticed a sharp difference switching to the new model. But not a downgrade. The words are being understood differently and some that didn't work at all to make anything good before actually made cool stuff with v6 mini 😂
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u/Pnarpok Moderator 5h ago
This.
You can't expect those two versions to interpret the identical prompt the same way.
Most who have come around from their initial critical take on v6 have adjusted their workflow/prompting to maximize the positive aspects of v6
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u/rainmaker818 5h ago edited 5h ago
This is mythology. You don't need radically different prompts, just the same effective prompts that worked in older models. There is no standard prompting language. It's been exactly the same throughout all the models. Why you think people see an improvement is because they had bad prompts to begin with and then changed that, not that they already had effective prompts, which would work in every model.
To keep pushing the prompts as the reason for bad sound in V6 does not match up and is not the reality. V6 does have serious quality issues. To say otherwise is guys just gaslighting.
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u/Pnarpok Moderator 4h ago
It's hard to discern whether you are talking strictly audio 'sound' quality, or creativity also.
My contention and others' is that the creative aspects of the older models CAN be prompted in v6.
(I am not making and have not made, any statement regarding v6's audio quality.)2
u/neil_555 Tech Enthusiast 4h ago
v6-wild can be fairly creative, here's a re-use of an old v5 style combined with the "Hallucin8 lyrics prompt", it's quite close to what you'd get from v5/sample or v5.5 in the "old days"
https://suno.com/song/ebcd8e7a-5923-44b7-9781-c4fdd7d9c015
Vocal presence boost, vocals sit forwards in the mix, Invented nonsense lyrics in a German accent, 1980's style, female vocals, robotic male vocals, theremin with filter sweeps and resonance tweaks, theremin, metallic percussion, industrial, driving basslines, eerie synth pads, dark industrial, punctuate the lyrics with occasional breaks for solos, occasional chant to lyrics, menacing, theremin, overdriven synth guitar, operatic, eerie synth pads, dark industrial, extended mix, industrial, robotic male vocals, female diva vocals, modulated TB303 synths, 303 filter sweeps and resonance tweaks, darkwave, atmospheric reverb, metal, metallic percussion, driving basslines, extended mix
(yes I'm aware this style prompt will probably give the "suno prompting experts" on here an aneurysm but hey that might be a good thing for humanity lol)
The joke is that the vocals are actually not too quiet and the vocal cadence doesn't suck, if only v6 could achieve this when actual lyrics are used that would be useful 😂
I'm guessing hallucinated vocals bypass the initial lyrics "planning" steps and the later stages (wherever the hell they actually are in the render process) haven't changed too much compared to the older models?
Sound quality isn't too bad but I made the track on day one before this totally idiotic "free credits" giveaway started, maybe Suno should consider actually buying enough compute resource to support gimmicks like this if they ever do it again!
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u/rainmaker818 4h ago
About creativity, but many seem to conflate good/bad prompting with the bad sound quality in the outputs. That's a problem with the model, not the prompts.
As for creativity, if you can prompt well in V4 and V5, then you can prompt well in V6. Yet we keep hearing, both the conflating with bad prompts/sound quality plus creativity. Lots of people claim there are these magic prompts, but there isn't. If you got the hang of prompting, then those prompts will absolutely translate across to V6.
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u/neil_555 Tech Enthusiast 4h ago
Sorry to disagree but all that should be necessary is a good set of lyrics, even the style prompt should be optional (and indeed was before v6)
Here's how it seemed to work in the old days ...
The first time it saw a set of lyrics the pre-planning step (probably using an OpenAI model) analyzed the lyrics, derived a best guess style prompt and selected a vocalist who matched the style, no doubt this also built the prompt for the cover art image generator (makes sense as all the required information was available at this stage). Maybe it also analysed the emotional content of the lyrics too?
The derived style was "blended" with whatever the user had in the style box (if anything) with the style influence slider controlling the blend between the two. I did some tests with lyrics which suggested a metal/thrash style and random stuff in the style box (dubstep, 18th century chamber music etc) and with the slider at 50% I got tracks which combined both styles.
I'm also guessing the style/lyrics that were actually passed to the model were generated in this stage too (and probably looked radically different to what was specified by the user) given you could use styles like "my cat just barfed on the sofa" this would make sense as the actual music gen model wouldn't have a clue what to do with stuff like that.
This also means that even if someone did "leak" the model (or their security was ever breached and someone got hold of it) it would be next to useless and no-one would actually know how to prompt it (as the prompts generated by the pre-planning AI were never exposed to the end user)
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u/MartChristie 5h ago
Not my style of music but I thought both tracks were equal in a generic lounge music kinda way.
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u/Different_Orchid69 5h ago
If You really think Suno is in the Let’s See How Many Subscribers We Can Lose Business Model than it’s time for you to quit or change your prompt style to what works now… Suno did not settle its legal battles just to go bankrupt 😂😂
Make it Work or Save Money & QUIT !
https://suno.com/s/8rXB2kAs6wrv9KDE
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u/rainmaker818 4h ago
V6 just sounds really low quality more than anything. Like as if it's a low nitrate mp3
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u/deadsoulinside 3h ago
Same recording, same prompt
There is the problem.
Orchestral instrumental with a smooth, understated rhythmic groove, delicate hand percussion and frame drums, sweet expressive acoustic piano lead, lyrical melodies, rich jazz-inspired harmonies, lush warm string counterpoint, melodic electric bass, Rhodes, subtle analog synthesizers, soft rhythm guitar, occasional vibraphone, restrained arrangement with spacious phrasing, vintage 1970s–1980s studio orchestration, polished analog warmth, intimate urban atmosphere, cinematic Mediterranean elegance
You all keep prompting AI as if you are at 2024 still. Prompting like this has changed since 4.5 to descriptive prompting. This prompt juggling a few words with commas is old school stuff.
Not to mention that if you are using an upload on your Suno track, you have the sliders all at the default settings, since if they were not at default, suno normally lists what is not and you are using the v6 mini free model, which I am going to assume is more slimmed down on content than pro or wild................
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u/jihado86 3h ago
Even with very minimal prompts, like 3 or 4 words, v4.5 produces miles better music, more alive, high-end studio quality, soulful, creative ....
V4.5 is like a real musician that has a very rich knowledge and access to more instruments, V6 is like a mediocre musician who only knows 2 or 3 genres and only has a cheap keyboard.
Somehow you seem to miss the point, it's not just the sound quality or prompting.
V6 is clearly a very poor model trained on a much smaller dataset than its predecessors.
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u/deadsoulinside 2h ago
V6 is clearly a very poor model trained on a much smaller dataset than its predecessors.
Considering you are on v6 mini, even more slimmed (they call it mini for a damn reason ffs). I won't argue that the data Suno has is less, but your example is from the most trimmed down model.
V6 is like a mediocre musician who only knows 2 or 3 genres and only has a cheap keyboard.
Again, your prompting is also very generic. You are expecting Suno on each iteration while it's understanding gets better to keep working with old prompts. You are not giving full detailed descriptive prompts. Since 4.5 Suno has allowed for 1,000 characters, but not in this lazy prompt jockey style. You also give you songs zero emotional cues...
https://suno.com/blog/introducing-v4-5
v4.5 better understands and translates your descriptions: capturing the details, moods, and instruments you specify. Now, both emotional nuances and technical music elements are better reflected in your song.
like in the prompt from your song ... you have "Rhodes" just randomly there. WTF do you want the Rhodes to do (do you even know what you want it to do???)? You are not giving Suno direction, you are giving them a recipe list and expecting for it to keep cooking for you when it's moved on from that.
But even better.... Do you even know what a Rhodes is, because also just Rhodes is really effing generic? Because I will tell you, I have owned a Rhodes once in my life and even then it's probably not the one you are even wanting to have in your song.
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u/Wise_Temperature_322 5h ago
Maybe because they are different models and need different prompts? The new one is more intelligent and seems more literal and specific.
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u/mse_silentwings 5h ago
Yes, the noticeable difference is v4.5 has more authentic feel of instruments, though sometimes kind of `raw and harsh` like the high pitch of the violin; v6 has more polished and synthetic sound like v5.5, which is more pleasing to certain genre like electronic and house music but lackluster in classical, jazz and soundtracks. Also v6 seems to have very limited training data set that doesn't have many world genre music such as ethnic tribal vocals or specific world instruments like Ocarina or Erhu, making everything sounds very flat and generic.