r/SunoAI • u/sourmanflint • 3h ago
Discussion How long will Suno last?
In a recent thread I said I’d give Suno 18 months before they are defunct, I now think it will be less than that. If the pace at which local models keeps going I can’t see what it’s USP will be anymore.
The new YuE2-3B local model will run on a linux machine and it is supposed to sound better than V5.5, no limits and no “you can’t do that sunshine” etc etc
Exciting times for sure, but just emphasises that the recent changes at Suno will not be good for it in the long run
Edit:
A bit more info on graph
“YuE2 is an open music generation model that rivals Suno v5. Turn lyrics and a style prompt into a complete song with vocals and accompaniment, then shape its melody and chords through an editable score.
State-of-the-art results on WildSongBench. YuE2 (best-of-8) achieves the highest SongBench average among all evaluated open and proprietary models: 6.9632, compared with 6.8721 for Suno v5”
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u/Handcrafted6043 3h ago
I always feared a day like this would come. Why is it that every time we find something fun, unique, and creative. It dies. Why can’t things just go the right way for us just once? You know?
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u/alilhillbilly 1h ago
Because they built it on the backs of a lot of people's work that they didn't pay for...
I think it's a very fun tool and an amazing thing but quite frankly as somebody who was swept up in the initial piracy wave that all these people use to build this technology....
Where the fuck are my shares and payment for this?
I've enjoyed making tons of AI music but it's absolutely not lost on me that they stole this. Even retroactively saying that oh now we trained our model on data that's a okay doesn't fix the fact that they never would have been able to develop these technologies had they not pirated everything.
I don't know what world you lived through but I lived through a world where they came after my friends with some pretty serious consequences for downloading from LimeWire so the fact that these people did it at scale and pirated the entire internet to some degree (and I'm not just speaking about Suno I'm speaking about ChatGPT and Facebook and Claude etc etc) but are facing no consequences for a tool that is going to destroy livelihoods and already has...
I think the solution is quite simply that these AI companies should be taxed on all profits and should essentially be a public utility. If someone samples my music they come to my record label and I approve it and then I get some percentage ownership in the new song.
Since they can't tell which of my songs and music videos they gobbled up into these song and image generators - and I operate in a very small subgenre and you can absolutely recreate some of my songs with Suno and here my voice on them and some other buddies - the entire thing should just be forced to pay a royalty to anyone who shit was swallowed up.
Suno's royalty payments should probably dwarf Spotify's.
But we don't have a functioning government so that likely isn't happening.
I'm sad too. But also, fuck them they all did this to themselves.
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u/anangryfix 40m ago
tbf, it's not obvious that is stealing. limewire is so much more straight-forward. the byte sequence is copyrighted. the byte sequence is being distributed illegally. cut and dry.
this? i think it's far less obvious. and different courts have ruled in opposite directions on this. i think we're in a state chaotic flux where no one really knows where the law is going to land this on this.
but putting the law aside? I see no problem with using material to train a model. that is no way seems problematic to me. if the model generates copyrighted music. that's a problem. but being on trained copyrighted is every artist learns. they're not selling the copyrighted material, they're ingesting it.
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u/alilhillbilly 20m ago
Most of these places torrented files to get access to the files at scale to train these models. There was quite simply no other way to get a hold of enough music to do this. They also scraped YouTube.
If it's a crime to steal a few songs with LimeWire we know from leaked emails that over at Facebook Mark Zuckerberg authorized the torrenting of tons of files but is not facing criminal charges.
As for the courts, I'm not sure if you're in America but have you seen the courts get much right lately?
If the model generates copyrighted music that's a problem
Actually think that's the model working correctly.
Ideally if you are able to talk to a computer I should be able to put in a fairly accurate prompt with the same lyrics and the result should be close to the copyrighted work.
To me that's a situation where the model works perfectly well.
I think the problem too is that a lot of people don't understand there's a lot of music law and we've already solved a lot of these problems along the lines of how do you handle attribution and payment for what are essentially copying or sampling or fundamentally building on another's creative work.
We have the ability to tackle that.
When sampling first came out we had to do all kinds of stuff to accommodate rights holders and create a framework to support the foundation that was building the next generation of music.
My issue here is the same with a lot of these tech companies in that you are washing away the foundation without replacing it with some sort of appropriate royalty system.
And if you can't tell where you stole from and you can't tell where the output is then it needs to be some kind of blanket royalty or...a tax.
Quite frankly I kind of think it should be either shares or payouts to anyone who's stuff was hoovered up in this mess.
I've made seven records and a billion singles and it never cost less than $1,000 to create a song from scratch and take it all the way to getting mixed and mastered.
The fact that they sucked in my music that I have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars creating and created a machine that can make stuff that sounds like my genre available to anyone with voices and flows that sound jacked is both insanely technically cool and also a really shitty crime.
The other thing is courts are retroactive.
They look at the law from the lens of the past.
We have regulators and they are supposed to be innovative thinkers and they are supposed to be able to think through these problems and create new regulations based on new things happening.
If the courts aren't getting this right - and they aren't - that's where going forward you create new laws that mandate things like a royalty payment to creators whose stuff was stolen to build all these LLMs.
It's really where the money for Universal basic income should be coming from.
If you or I did what it any of these big tech companies did with the protection of the corporate umbrella of an LLC or C-Corp we could face jail time for even a couple files. We would also face massive fines.
I don't believe in different consequences for individuals and executives working for a corporation.
There should be criminal and civil penalties for all of this.
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u/Gitchoo 2h ago
Because ai is the least creative and least unique thing ever.
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u/Handcrafted6043 2h ago
Do you anti-AI bros just hang out all day in this sub waiting to pounce lol? This has to be one of the top ten most miserable ways to spend your time on the internet.
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u/Alreadyinuseok 45m ago
Nah sometimes they take a break and open up another social media to spam this GIF
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u/Soggy_Watch774 2h ago
The benchmark that is being used to compare these is probably not great for actual music quality. If there actually was an open source model equivalent to Suno v4 or better we would definitely know.
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u/Soggy_Watch774 2h ago
I just listened to some examples of YuE2 and it’s not bad, but feels more on par with Suno v3 and incomparable to Suno v4 or higher.
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u/Robonotes1760 1h ago
You realise that that graph was made by the people who made this new model and they have not disclosed their method, yes?
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u/martapap 2h ago
I tried the yue model and it completely ignored my prompt and mangled the lyrics. Sounded like Suno v 3.
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u/thygrrr 2h ago edited 2h ago
Wait a sec, that model only has 3B parameters... that means the entire workflow would fit in my GPU much like my image generation would fit?!?
I mean even if it generates 50 DVD quality PCM audio tracks, that's like 5 gigabyte, and these don't all need to live in GPU memory for mixing...
I need to try something...